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post #736 of 763 (permalink) Old 2018-10-24, 10:25 PM
 
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FM Dipole Antenna was received today from Amazon. I hooked it up and was able to receive channel 9 with a 100% picture quality. I didnít get any picture at all on channels 2 and 4.
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post #737 of 763 (permalink) Old 2018-10-25, 12:18 AM
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Thank you for the report of your test with the FM dipole; sorry to hear that it didn't give you 2 and 4.

There are two factors involved. The antenna might not be long enough to give the gain that you need for 2 and 4. My test of the FM dipole showed that it had about 11 to 12 dB less gain than a folded dipole 88" long using THHN 14 gauge wire.

The other factor is the noise level, which is very high on channels 2 and 4 from electrical interference. Your indoor antenna needs to be located where the noise level is as low as possible.

My tests have shown me that the noise level with the FM dipole is also lower by about the same amount as the signal, giving the same SNR. This means that the FM dipole might have enough gain for the signals, but there isn't enough difference between the signal and the noise.

I made some more tests yesterday to compare tbe 88" folded dipole with the FM dipole, using the channel 3 output of a Channel Master converter box as a test signal and my Sadelco 719E signal level meter. The meter has a speaker so that I can hear the sound of the noise and the video carrier of the signal, in addition to being able to measure their strength. I used the meter on the left:



88" folded dipole
signal: -3 dBmV (-52 dBm)
noise: -13 dBmV (-62 dBm)
The signal is 10 dB stronger than the noise. A digital signal needs to be at least 15 dB stronger than the noise for reception. I could have used a stronger test signal to make the difference greater than 10 dB, but it didn't matter for this test to compare the two antennas for gain.

FM folded dipole
signal: -15 dBmV (-64 dBm)
noise: -26 dBmV (-75 dBm)
The signal is 11 dB stronger than the noise with the FM dipole.

The 88" folded dipole has 12 dB more gain than the FM folded dipole.

There are two thngs you can try:
1. Build an 88" dipole like I did
2. Try to find a location that has less electrical noise interference

The second one will require trial-and-error by you because you don't have a meter to measure the noise. You can suspect interference from CFL and LED lamps. You can also use a portable radio operating on batteries that will tune the AM broadcast band to hunt for noise sources. Tune it to a vacant frequency at the low end and at the high end of the AM broadcast band. Sometimes a high noise level on the broadcast band will also indicate noise on VHF channels. It doesn't need to be an expensive radio. I use a Jensen MR-550 AM/FM Portable radio. Use it on AM not FM; it works better on AM to hunt for noise. The built in AM loop stick antenna acts as a direction finder.



Maybe you could also set up a temporary antenna outside as a test.

What balun did you use to connect the FM dipole to your TV?

If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883

Last edited by rabbit73; 2018-10-25 at 10:54 AM.
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post #738 of 763 (permalink) Old 2018-10-26, 08:45 PM
 
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The Balun I am using to connect Dipole FM Antenna to my TV is the same as this one: https://www.amazon.com/Philips-SWV20.../dp/B000HSITJO

I had this at home it came with an old passive set of rabbit ears that I used when our local channels were analog.

Last edited by cyclist44; 2018-10-26 at 08:46 PM. Reason: Corrected Spelling
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post #739 of 763 (permalink) Old 2018-10-27, 11:26 AM
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That should be OK. If you need to move the antenna further away from the TV, you could use a length of coax and an F-81 adapter.


If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
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post #740 of 763 (permalink) Old 2018-10-27, 05:22 PM
 
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I do have a F-81 Adapter and will have to give it a try.
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post #741 of 763 (permalink) Old 2018-11-09, 02:06 PM
 
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I have tried many different locations with the Dipole FM Antenna. I still can only pick up TVO Channel 9.
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post #742 of 763 (permalink) Old 2018-11-09, 08:38 PM
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Thank you for the report; I was wondering how you were doing. Sorry to hear you are still having trouble. The only things I can think of to try are a longer antenna like I made, a test with a temporary antenna outside, and a search for a quiet noise location with a portable radio that tunes the AM broadcast band as I mentioned in post 737 above.

Assuming your signals for 2 and 4 are there, the only way you are going to be able to receive them is to find an antenna and antenna location that will give you signals that are at least 15 dB stronger than the noise, which is the minimum SNR (Signal to Noise Ratio) for the reception of digital TV signals.

Have you continued to hunt for people in your area that have been able to receive 2 and 4 with an antenna?

How determined are you to receive them? How much effort are you willng to do so that you can receive them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclist44 View Post
I have tried many different locations with the Dipole FM Antenna. I still can only pick up TVO Channel 9.
What locations have you tried, basement, 1st floor, 2nd floor, attic, outside?

With each new locaton that you tried, did you do a rescan with the tuner to pick up 2 and 4?

What TV are you using for reception? How many TVs do you have?

What is the construction of the house, aluminum siding, brick, stucco?

Can you show us some photos?

Are you willing to give me your address in a PM so that I can look at a satellite photo of your location?

With the strong signals listed on your report, you should be able to receive 2 and 4, I just haven't figured why you can't.

If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883

Last edited by rabbit73; 2018-11-09 at 11:36 PM.
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post #743 of 763 (permalink) Old 2018-11-26, 09:00 PM
 
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Here is a photo of my setup. Window is facing North. I am able to get 100% on channel 9 and 27% on channels 2 and 4.

[IMG]<a href="http://tinypic.com?ref=2niwdab" target="_blank"><img src="http://i68.tinypic.com/2niwdab.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>[/IMG]

I don't have any AM Radio Stations where I live.

Last edited by cyclist44; 2018-11-26 at 09:04 PM. Reason: Added addional Information
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post #744 of 763 (permalink) Old 2018-11-27, 12:01 AM
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Thank you for the link to your photo.



Is 27% strong enough to be able to receive 2 and 4?

You don't need any AM radio stations to be able to listen for noise interference on the AM band.

If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
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post #745 of 763 (permalink) Old 2018-11-27, 03:34 PM
 
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27% is just not quite enough to view channels 2 and 4. Signal is trying to come through. Screen is mostly black but you can see some color trying to come through.
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post #746 of 763 (permalink) Old 2018-11-27, 04:27 PM
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That sounds encouraging. You are not quite there yet, but at least you have some indication of a signal.

Have you tried using a preamp?

Can you make a temporary test outside with the antenna taped to some wood sticks with masking tape?

I wonder if a longer antenna designed for 2 and 4 would do better than the shorter FM dipole.

If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883
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post #747 of 763 (permalink) Old 2018-11-28, 02:36 PM
 
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I tried to put the dipole FM antenna higher but that only makes the reception worse. The roof was probably interfering. I couldn't find a longer TV antenna when I searched online. I haven't tried a preamp. I would have to purchase a preamp.
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post #748 of 763 (permalink) Old 2019-02-14, 01:45 PM
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Sault-Ste-Marie / Thunder Bay

I was curious whether anyone from Sault-Ste-Marie & Thunder Bay has had any luck picking up US over the air channels (given the proximity to the border). On Wikipedia, the Thunder Bay page indicates with an outdoor rooftop antenna, the WBKP channel can be picked up from that community. Meanwhile in Sault-Ste-Marie, WWUP, W28DY & WGTQ all seem to come in clear according to TVFool.

I find it curious that people who live outside large canadian cities (say Toronto, Ottawa) have to pay twice in order to access content they pay for through their taxes in order to public broadcasters like CBC, Radio-Canada, TVO, TFO, CPAC, Ontario Parliamentary Network, etc (whether it be through a cable/satellite subscription or bandwidth online)...
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post #749 of 763 (permalink) Old 2019-07-04, 11:45 PM
 
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Soo Ontario has 7 US channels and only 3 Can

I am helping a friend with OTA in the Soo, using TVFool to see what he could get, and was amazed that he could get 7 US channels: major broadcast networks (ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, CW), and some digital broadcast networks (MeTV, Comet), but no PBS.

But more surprising to see only 3 Canadian channels available OTA - CTV, Global and CHCH; but no CBC or TVO - pretty sad.
You'd think these missing network channels could be added as sub-channels. Oh well, I guess the CRTC/Industry Canada could care less about this. Enjoy your American channels Soo-ites.
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post #750 of 763 (permalink) Old 2019-09-09, 02:03 PM
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Question CHCH Repeater Reception - Help

Hi,
Looking for some guidance. I have a cottage on the north west side of the Georgian Bay Penninsule, near Lafontaine Beach.

I have sucessfully been able to pull in CKVR with a DIY folded dipole antenna and Global using a SBGH with Narod top hat. Both antennas feed into a combiner and then CM7778. They sit on a tower, about 25ft up. My location is not far from the beach (200yards), but where we are, we are below a bluff that is about 2km back from the shore, and Yes, there are trees all around.

I have made other SBGH and DBGH for my setup at home with great success, so this is not my first.

My struggle is the CHCH repeater which sits on the same tower as the Global TV antenna.

Is someone able to tell me what I might be doing wrong that is preventing me from getting it? The signal power for Global is much stronger but I thought I would register something for CHCH. Would an antenna with a different frequency profile be a better choice?

I also used a HDHomerun with signal meter app.

My TVFool has the following info:
CallSign Real Virt NM(db) PATH Dist (Miles) Az True
CIII-DT 7 7.1 24.1 2Edge 22.5 47Deg
CHCH-DT 23 23.1 6.4 2Edge 22.5 47 Deg

Doing some googling, I found some sites where it shows CHCH-DT-3 as having a virtual channel of 67.1. Is that just old and now replaced by 23.1?

Thanks for reading.
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