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post #601 of 764 (permalink) Old 2013-12-03, 11:13 PM
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 124
While your at it, since you've been robbed of TVO and CBC (tax payer supported services). I would call Shaw Direct and enroll in their LTSS program.
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post #602 of 764 (permalink) Old 2013-12-03, 11:38 PM
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5
Looks like that program expired in November 2012. Too bad they just didn`t make the channels unencrypted for FTA.
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post #603 of 764 (permalink) Old 2013-12-04, 09:28 AM
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Primary: Bradford ON, 6th Line and West Park Ave Secondary: S Legion Dr Buffalo NY
Posts: 200
Angus OTA set-up ideas


I have an OTA set up in Wasaga Beach about 40 km north of you.
It is a DB4e and an Antennas Direct Clearstream 5 VHF antenna combined with an old CM7777 pre-amp that has separate UHF and VHF inputs. This minimizes the insertion loss of combining the two antennas. This old version of the CM7777( which also boast lower noise figures)is probably still available on ebay) My height is about 55 ft and I have a run of about 200 ft of coax.

Both antennas are pointed at the CN tower. The following CN tower stations are reliable:

CBLT 5-1
CFTO 9-1
CICA 19-1
CBLFT 25-1
CIII 41-1

OMNI 1, OMNI 2, CITY fade in and out.

Regarding CTV, I don't think that the two analog channels rf21 Orillia and CKCO rf2 Georgian Bay are still operational. Can anyone confirm this?
In any case the digital CFTO rf9 from Toronto is a superior HD feed.

Given that you are closer to the CN tower than my Wasaga installation, I would guess that an DB8e with both panels pointed to Toronto. With both panels on the same plane, the DB8e has an awesome gain of 17.4 db! I snare Buffalo signals reliably from 110 miles away in my home installation in Bradford. If you combined it with a Clearstream 5 would yield solid reception for all TO stations. It would also give you a shot at Hamilton's CHCH and CITS.

Of course CKVR would come in by default. The two local channels CIII rf7 and CHCH rf23 would probably not be picked up by the back of the antenna but you would get Global rf41 reliably from Toronto and possibly CHCH rf15 from Hamilton.

Aiming the two panels in different directions would weaken the gain from the
Toronto stations. OMNI I, OMNI II, CITY would be more vulnerable.

So the value judgement for you to make is which channels are more valuable to you?

CHCH ( which may not come in if both panels point south) or the trio of OMNI 1 and 2 and CITY ( which will be carrying NHL hockey next year if that is a factor)

By the way the DB8e is on sale at Solid Signal in Michigan for $75. Click on today's specials. If you ship to a Buffalo UPS box address you will save on the brokerage and shipping charges with a Canadian delivery. Of course you would have to pay 13% HST at the border.

Hope this helps
chinadog is offline  
post #604 of 764 (permalink) Old 2013-12-04, 10:35 AM
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 124
Two things:

Chinadog, would you post the TV fool from the Wasaga Beach location that you are talking about? Would be curious to see what DB levels are reported on those Toronto stations vs the Angus location.

Secondly, I thought that the LTSS program was extended again? I see what I can dig up. It's not HD, but I use it at my cottage and I'm quite happy with it.

Finally, those northern CTV stations are still broadcasting, but I wouldn't count on them for the long term.
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post #605 of 764 (permalink) Old 2013-12-04, 11:24 AM
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Primary: Bradford ON, 6th Line and West Park Ave Secondary: S Legion Dr Buffalo NY
Posts: 200
Wasaga OTA TVfool

Jakeman 3:

My Wasaga TV fool:

chinadog is offline  
post #606 of 764 (permalink) Old 2013-12-04, 11:40 AM
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Mount Albert [#48 highway & Mnt. Albert Rd.]
Posts: 35
I contacted Bell/CTV in the fall with regard to the Severn Falls [aka Orillia] ch21 transmitter and while there is no plan to shut it down there is certainly no plan to go digital either. To bad I was looking forward to watching the NFL on the boat with out the ghosts!
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post #607 of 764 (permalink) Old 2013-12-04, 08:07 PM
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 124
Chinadog, I agree with a lot of what you are saying. I think "reliable" is an easy word to misinterpret though. Where one might consider a channel reliable, another would totally disagree.

I completely forgot that the Global Midland was VHF too... and with that; jonnybravo, why not put up a huge combo yagi antenna on a rotator, something like the Wingard 8200?? Is it just too huge and ugly? Too much rotating bugging you?
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post #608 of 764 (permalink) Old 2013-12-04, 09:12 PM
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: derry + winston Mississauga
Posts: 1,661
Jonny your TV fool indicates no chance for anything from Buffalo.Toronto stations will be very difficult.From your driveway in you car do the Toronto Fm stations come in clean and clear,this is pretty good indicator for reception of the Toronto TV stations.The locals to the North will be fine but you will need a rotor to choose between Toronto or the other locals to the north.CKVR is automatic no matter what.

Attic CM 4248 at Buffalo,M4 at Buffalo.VHF yagis at Toronto .

Last edited by rob50312; 2013-12-04 at 09:15 PM. Reason: more
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post #609 of 764 (permalink) Old 2013-12-05, 10:33 AM
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Primary: Bradford ON, 6th Line and West Park Ave Secondary: S Legion Dr Buffalo NY
Posts: 200
Angus OTA potential

I have learned through numerous installations that predicted OTA outcomes sometimes turn out better, sometimes worse and often with an unforeseeable curve ball. I am confident in my more optimistic predictions but cannot be certain. The Tv fool numbers show potential but the immediate obstacles ( trees, buildings..) and sources of noise (cell towers) near the site play a big role in determining the outcome.The word "reliable" does not mean 100% guaranteed, but in Wasaga it means that only strong tropo days can disrupt the signals there. Is that less "reliable" than a satellite dish that sometimes goes down in the rain or a cable feed that sometimes has connectivity issues? The stronger Toronto UHF stations (5,19, 25, 41) will NOT be difficult at all from Angus - only 50 miles way and only a -1 to -3 dbs deficit to overcome. This db margin can be easily overcome with the Db8e. the strategy of aiming both panels of the db8e south has big rewards: only one target to hit (CN tower) that will yield 8 channels. In any case I think that the db8e is an excellent choice that will allow you to tinker with the aiming of the two panels to explore the OTA signals available. I would suggest that you find the best low-noise pre-amp available( many have less that 2 db noise), it makes a big difference when dealing with weaker signals.

As for the vhf part of the equation, the clearstream 5 will have no difficulty overcoming the -3 db deficit. It is a low profile antenna but it will need at least a 3-foot separation from the higher db8e antenna on the mast. This may seem to be a lot of effort for one channel -CFTO 9-1 but in the small OTA channel universe, CTV is a valuable piece.
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Last edited by chinadog; 2013-12-05 at 11:23 AM. Reason: typos
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post #610 of 764 (permalink) Old 2013-12-10, 10:40 PM
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Barrie (Innisfil)
Posts: 305
LTSS is still going check out my recent post in the LTSS thread

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post #611 of 764 (permalink) Old 2013-12-10, 10:44 PM
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Barrie (Innisfil)
Posts: 305
I'm about 20 km east of Wasaga and I'm getting CFTO on channel 21 (Orillia)

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post #612 of 764 (permalink) Old 2013-12-16, 02:35 PM
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5
Hey guys,

Thanks for the discussion! Leaving me a lot to consider. I picked up the DB8e for $150. Missed the $75 Michigan deal -- totally would have done that! Also got the LNA-200 for $40. Looks like I still need to get a cheap VHF antenna, and a tripod/mast suitable for both the DB8e and the VHF antenna. Looks like it's easy to find a 3' tripod with a 5' mast, but will that be big enough to hold both? Also, here's a great dumb question: the pre-amp I got says it boosts UHF and VHF separately, and has two connectors. I'm assuming one is the output to the TV and power in, and the other is the input from the antenna. If I add a second antenna, do I just put a splitter on the input?
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post #613 of 764 (permalink) Old 2013-12-18, 01:37 PM
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Primary: Bradford ON, 6th Line and West Park Ave Secondary: S Legion Dr Buffalo NY
Posts: 200
Combining UHF and VHF

A splitter will combine the signals from two antennas of the same family ( db2e and db4e) quite well but you need a a USVJ combiner for your DB8e and the VHF antenna. You can get one from Antennas Direct( EU385-CF UHF / VHF Antenna Combiner) Pico Macom also makesa good one. Make sure that all your connections are carefully made and seal each joint with weatherproofing tape. (It's a black stretchy tape that seals over itself, availalble at CDN Tire and HOME DEPOT).

As for tripods, I have a three-foot tripod holding a ten-foot mast. Channel Master says that the three-foot tripod will support a ten-foot mast. I have fortified my tripod with a few extra struts/legs. Depending on how sturdy the tripod feels you could cut it down to 7 feet which would leave you enough room for the VHF antenna placed below the db8e.

Good luck and keep me posted!

Last edited by chinadog; 2013-12-18 at 01:43 PM. Reason: errors
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post #614 of 764 (permalink) Old 2013-12-30, 05:19 PM
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 24
Has anyone notice the CBC English (5.1)Toronto signal has dropped and the CBC French (25.1)has gone up over the holidays?
skink is offline  
post #615 of 764 (permalink) Old 2013-12-30, 09:15 PM
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Barrie, Ontario
Posts: 113
Hi Skink (and all):

I just checked, and no, I can't say I've noticed any change over the holidays. CBLT-TV (5/RF20) and CBLFT-TV (25/RF25) both max out at 100% on my Tivax. Recently I acquired a new Samsung LED TV (wow: what a difference from my own ancient Cathode Ray Tube TV!), and without the Tivax being on (it has pass-through) I'm still getting rock solid signals for both channels, 100%. One thing I did find rather strange, though; when I am watching my marginal channels (the Buffalo stations), the Tivax can decode and show them ok when they are viewable; but when I take it out and hook the TV antenna directly to the Samsung, the signals are weaker, and sometimes not watchable at all. I don't know why that is. Is a Tivax external tuner just more sensitive than the stock tuner in an Samsung LED TV? Or I wonder if the fact that the Tivax only renders the signal as SD instead of HD means that it can get away with less signal (the TV needing more, because it is rendering an HD signal)? I'm wondering this because I'm thinking of upgrading my Tivax to an HD external tuner, maybe the PHD-VRX PVR....but I don't want to do it if I'll end up losing my marginal channels (the ones from Buffalo). What does the community think? Thanks for any input.


DMX-68 tower/AD91XG, CM7777 Preamp, Tivax STB-T8; HD-6055P FM, Sony XDR-F1HD; Cushcraft MA5B, Kenwood TS-590.
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