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CTV shutting down regional analogue transmitters

13K views 32 replies 19 participants last post by  ExDilbert 
#1 ·
Bell wants to shutdown 28 more retransmitters nationwide

CRTC open proceeding published yesterday @ https://services.crtc.gc.ca/pub/DocWebBroker/OpenDocument.aspx?AppNo=201900887

Yep, another unsurprising incremental dystopia for OTA. I know it's "only" ancient analog transmitters outside of urban cities, but how long before they try to pull the plug on 'em all, DTV be damned?

So far the first intervention suspiciously reads like George Cope pretending to be an ordinary citizen from Winnipeg:

i'm in support of bell's application to shutdown the retransmitters i believe bell can save money by shutting down these transmitters as satellite tv is available
Seriously? Who would say such a thing other than someone with a vested interest in BCE? :rolleyes:
 
#2 ·
Another 24 transmitters been added to the list, search decision 2019-0088-7 on crtc, if copy and paste works well here it is..
Nova Scotia
CJCB-TV Sydney and its transmitters
CJCB-TV-1 Inverness
CJCB-TV-2 Antigonish
CJCB-TV-3 Dingwall
CJCB-TV-6 Port Hawkesbury

CJCH-DT Halifax and its transmitters
CJCH-TV-1 Canning
CJCH-TV-3 Valley Colchester County
CJCH-TV-4 Bridgetown
CJCH-TV-5 Sheet Harbour
CJCH-TV-6 Caledonia
CJCH-TV-7 Yarmouth
New Brunswick
CKCW-DT Moncton and its transmitters
CKAM-TV-3 Blackville
CKAM-TV-4 Doaktown
CKCW-DT-1 Charlottetown, PEI

CKLT-DT Saint John and its transmitters
CKLT-TV-1 Florenceville
CKLTV-2 Boiestown
Quebec
CFCF-DT Montreal
Ontario
CFPL-DT London

CFTO-DT Toronto and its transmitters
CFTO-TV-21 Orillia
CFTO-DT-54 Peterborough

CHBX-TV Sault Ste. Marie

CHRO-TV Pembroke

CHRO-DT-43 Ottawa

CJOH-DT and its transmitters
CJOH-TV-6 Desoronto
CJOH-TV-47 Pembroke

CHWI-DT Wheatley and its transmitter
CHWI-DT-60 Windsor

CICI-TV Sudbury and its transmitter
CKNY-TV-11 Huntsville

CITO-TV Timmins and its transmitters
CITO-TV-1 Kapuskasing
CITO-TV-2 Kearns

CKCO-DT Kitchener and its transmitter
CKCO-TV-3 Oil Springs

CKNY-TV North Bay

CKVR-DT Barrie and its transmitters
CHJC-DT Burlington
CKVP-DT Welland
Manitoba
CKY-DT Winnipeg and its transmitters
CKYA-TV Fisher Branch
CKYB-TV Brandon
CKYD-TV Dauphin
CKYF-TV Flin Flon
CKYP-TV The Pas
CKYT-TV Thompson
Saskatchewan
CFQC-DT Saskatoon and its transmitters
CFQC-TV-1 Stranraer
CFQC-TV-2 North Battleford

CICC-TV Yorkton

CIPA-TV Prince Albert

CKCK-DT Regina
and its transmitters
CKMC-TV Swift Current
CKMJ-TV Marquis
Alberta
CFCN-DT Calgary and its transmitters
CFCN-TV-2 Banff
CFCN-TV-13 Pigeon Mountain
CFCN-TV-14 Harvie Heights
CFCN-TV-15 Invermere, BC

CFCN-DT-5 Lethbridge and its transmitters
CFCN-TV-8 Medicine Hat
CFCN-TV-9 Cranbrook, BC
CFCN-TV-10 Fernie, BC

CFRN-DT Edmonton and its transmitters
CFRN-TV-1 Grande Prairie
CFRN-TV-3 WhiteCourt
CFRN-TV-4 Ashmont
CFRN-TV-5 Lac La Biche
CFRN-TV-7 Lougheed
CFRN-TV-9 Slave Lake
CFRN-TV-12 Athabasca

CFRN-TV-6 Red Deer
British Columbia
CIVT-DT Vancouver

CIVI-DT Victoria and its transmitter
CIVI-DT-2 Vancouver

CFTK-TV Terrace and its transmitter
CFTK-TV-1 Prince Rupert
(Licensee: Bell Media Radio (Toronto) Inc. and 4382072 Canada Inc., partners in a general partnership carrying on business as Bell Media Radio G.P.)

CJDC-TV Dawson Creek and its transmitter
CJDC-TV-2 Bullhead Mountain
(Licensee: Bell Media Radio (Toronto) Inc. and 4382072 Canada Inc., partners in a general partnership carrying on business as Bell Media Radio G.P.)
 
#4 ·
That original list is wrong, you were looking at the wrong document. These are the transmitters that they are looking to shut down.

CJCB-TV-3 Dingwall
CJCH-TV-3 Valley Colchester County
CJCH-TV-4 Bridgetown
CKAM-TV-3 Blackville
CKAM-TV-4 Doaktown
CKLTV-2 Boiestown
CJOH-TV-47 Pembroke
CKCO-TV-3 Oil Springs
CJOH-TV-6 Desoronto
CKNY-TV-11 Huntsville
CITO-TV-2 Kearns
CKYA-TV Fisher Branch
CKYD-TV Dauphin
CKYF-TV Flin Flon
CKYP-TV The Pas
CKMC-TV Swift Current
CFQC-TV-1 Stranraer
CFQC-TV-2 North Battleford
CKMJ-TV Marquis
CFRN-TV-3 WhiteCourt
CFRN-TV-4 Ashmont
CFRN-TV-5 Lac La Biche
CFRN-TV-7 Lougheed
CFRN-TV-12 Athabasca
CFRN-TV-9 Slave Lake
CFCN-TV-15 Invermere
CFCN-TV-9 Cranbrook
CFCN-TV-10 Fernie
 
#13 ·
CJOH-TV-6 Desoronto is getting close.

Gosh, I remember that one turning on ... it provided Kingston and Belleville with CTV for the first time.

Hmm, with CKWS going to Global, then no terrestrial CTV signal now in Kingston? Must be 150,000 or more in the footprint. ... edit ... probably over 300,000 now I dig further with southern portions of Frontenac, Lennox/Addington/Hastings. Prince Edward + Kingston, Bellevile, Quinte, etc.

Edit ... is the CJOH analogue transmitter in Cornwall that can be picked up in Montreal still there? It's not on the cut list, and I think it was still there in 2016.
 
#11 ·
No stations have (or had) to be converted. During the first transition, broadcasters in larger centres (>300,000 pop.), had a choice of converting to ATSC or shutting them down. Most of those were converted but a few were shut down. More were converted and shut down at a later date. CBC and SUN are examples of broadcasters that shut down digital transmitters in larger cities after 2011.

A lot of analog transmitters were shut down at a later date, for example all of the CBC analog transmitters.

Global converted it's transmitters only due to a condition of its acquisition by Shaw. I believe a few of those have since been shut down.

CTV continued to operate some of it's analog transmitters on unassigned frequencies, causing other networks and stations problems due to interference. Some of those frequencies are now being reassigned to other uses and must be converted or shut down. For example, CTV's analog transmitter in Oil Springs continued to operate on 43 despite the reassignment of that frequency for use by TVO. Channel 43 transmitters must now be shut down due to that spectrum now being reassigned to other uses. It's no secret that CTV wants to shut down all of its OTA transmitters but they would lose simsub rights on BDUs.
 
#12 ·
It's no secret that CTV wants to shut down all of its OTA transmitters but they would lose simsub rights on BDUs.
Interestingly enough, this latest CRTC filing reveals they don't care about that anymore:

"Moreover, we are fully aware of the loss of certain regulatory privileges as a result of any transmitter shutdown, such as distribution on the basic service and the ability to request simultaneous substitution."
:surprise

After this latest exercise in pandering to shareholder greed is rubber-stamped, Bell will probably try to shut down every transmitter except one per province, then every one except Toronto, then everything.
 
#14 ·
Interestingly enough, this latest CRTC filing reveals they don't care about that anymore:...
Part of the reason is that CTV simsubs everything on their own BDUs regardless of whether it is required. Bell owns the largest satellite service and substitutes everything with its Toronto and Vancouver stations. They also throw in other random substitutions such as TSN programming that is also on US stations. That's affects about 2/3 of Canadians with satellite TV. That also spills over onto Telus satellite and anything else that relies on Bell satellite feeds such as smaller cable systems. Bell also substitutes everything on their IPTV service which is growing in metropolitan areas with high speed internet. That may extend to other IPTV services that rely on Bell IPTV feeds.

The remaining digital stations cover the majority of Canadians with a grade B contour who will still get simsubs. After everything is factored in, Bell will still get simsubs for the majority of Canadian BDU subscribers. The analog transmitters being shut down all serve markets under 300,000 people. The Oil Springs transmitter, for example is a repeater that serves a mainly rural region that has very low population density. In the surrounding counties, including Sarnia and Chatham, it probably serves close to 200,000 people. That's tiny compared to the population served by their Toronto transmitter.
 
#19 ·
The analog transmitters being shut down all serve markets under 300,000 people. The Oil Springs transmitter, for example is a repeater that serves a mainly rural region that has very low population density. In the surrounding counties, including Sarnia and Chatham, it probably serves close to 200,000 people. That's tiny compared to the population served by their Toronto transmitter.
As you mentioned, the problem is Bell owns majority share in the BDU market, so simsub rights for its OTA stations are, for the mostpart, under its own control. In other words, the purpose for keeping its OTA stations has eroded. Just because Toronto theoretically has more viewers, Bell doesn't actually treat it differently (yet) because they're not monetizing it nearly enough to satisfy shareholder greed. I really wouldn't be surprised if, within five to ten years, Bell tries to shut down all of its OTA transmitters, extending their "diminishing returns" argument. The bean-counters and MBAs at Bell don't see any value in OTA broadcasting because in their minds, it conflicts with the company objective to turn everything into a revenue stream. Imagine the boardroom table discussion. "Why are we continuing to operate any OTA transmitters when we could shut 'em all down, and force everybody to pay for our IPTV or satellite service? Stop bleeding maintenance costs, and increase revenue from the subscriber base! High-fives!"
It's pretty obvious that Bell is way more interested in generating revenue from subscription and service fees, rather than doing the work to find advertisers for TV. I've noticed recently during CTV Kitchener newscasts, the same ads (usually for national companies like McDonald's, Ford, etc.) run twice during each commercial break. Not as a mistake, but the new norm. The repetition is quite irritating.
Also remember that Bell will never sell its transmitter tower sites, because they love attaching cellular phone antennas to 'em. It's such a farce... oh, boo-hoo, it costs soooo much to operate OTA transmitters, even though they have no intent to demolish the towers.
 
#15 ·
I wonder what CTV plans to do with the remaining transmitters that are not on the list. Mainly CHRO in Pembroke and the many CTV stations in Northern Ontario and Saskatchewan. I mean it's 2019. Are there any countries left other than Canada with analogue? Even Cuba switched to digital several years ago. Pretty much most of Latin America, Europe and Asia is all digital.

This is going back at least 3-4 years (maybe longer). CTV had a transmitter failure on their channel 2 transmitter in Wiarton. It was down for weeks and they didn't receive one call about it.

As much as people may not like that there is no plans to convert to digital, there is no point in keeping any of the analog transmitters operational. I seriously doubt more than a handful of people are watching. They probably found some other means to watch TV years ago. Outside of major cities, you are lucky if you even get one channel these days.

In regards to simsubs, it's not just Bell that centralizes simsubs. Shaw and Eastlink centralize their simsubs too and I will bet you all the communities above will still be subjected to simsubs even after the transmitters shut down.
 
#16 ·
Things may have changed but Shaw was always very good at implementing simsubs correctly. Shaw Direct only simsubbed signals with a Canadian station nearby. Don't have experience with Shaw Cable but I would be surprised if they did blanket substitution of out of market signals. The same is true of most cable companies. The exceptions would be cable companies that use Bell Satellite feeds for US signals.
 
#18 ·
Shaw Direct does blanket simsubs for Global.
That probably changed because Shaw purchased Global. It's also another example of why companies that own BDUs, ISPs and broadcasters should either operate at arms length or be broken up. It's against consumer interests and has been bad for Canadian broadcasting in general. We wouldn't be in the position of watching large corporations shut down dozens of OTA stations if local broadcasters had been protected from unfair competition and hostile takeovers 30 years ago.
 
#20 ·
Here in Rural Nova Scotia, I don't get any CTV simsubs. I get local Halifax Global simsubs and CITY simsubs from Montreal. The CITY simsubs are the only ones that I have an issue with, since NS does not have a CITY affiliate. Edit...I'm still talking about Shaw Direct.
 
#22 ·
All regional and national networks should be required to provide digital OTA in all major markets of 300,000 people or more. The CRTC erred by allowing broadcasters to shut down stations or fail to provide digital station presence in those markets in 2011. The CRTC should also require both CTV and CTV2 to operate in those markets, reversing a prior decision to disallow it. The CRTC erred in letting CTV acquire what is now the CTV2 network. An even better decision would be to require CTV to merge the networks in order to allow more competition from other networks.

They should Just allow them to subchannel from London or something,
I don't agree. Separate stations for ATSC is a good idea in order to maintain signal quality. Putting two HD stations on one channel might be allowed if ATSC3 is adopted.
 
#23 ·
your 300,000 theory was shot down last time when they allowed cbc to shut down cbc London as London has well over 300,000.ctv is just a glorified usa network that claims they are canadain by claiming all there tv shows are there and not the true originators the Americans.if bell shut down all the ota tv stations they own you would be able to watch abc cbs nbc and fox instead of the subbing.bell is the most greadiest company in Canada and rogers is not that far behind.ctv and bell only shows 1% of the Canadian content on tv they they call themselves Canada savories.if you look at the british example bbc and itv produce all original programming for there main channels and cbs and fox out of the usa provide most of the American tv with there own tv stations in the uk.bell and ctv have no Canadian loyalityall they care about is there greed for more money and how they can rip off the Canadian people with the crtc help.if ctv died tomorrow you still would get to see the same shows as they show you now only that you would have to watch it on the American channels instead.
 
#24 ·
if bell shut down all the ota tv stations they own you would be able to watch abc cbs nbc and fox
I don't mean to sound selfish, but if Canadian OTA disappeared, many of us would have less interference and better reception of U.S. OTA.

In our home, 90 percent of our television viewing is U.S. OTA stations. About the only thing (Canadian) we regularly watch is Global Toronto at 6 and Global National for news. CBC OTA hasn't been available here for some time and CTV2, well, that's another story. Actually haven't watched CFPL TV (CTV2) since Eric Sorenson left the anchor desk. The station became a disaster when Moses tried to implement the CITY TV news format and it was comedy hour watching the news anchors running about the studio. :laugh
 
#27 ·
your 300,000 theory was shot down last time when they allowed cbc to shut down cbc London as London has well over 300,000
That's why I am saying it should be a requirement in order to retain a license to operate a regional or national OTA broadcasting network in Canada. The CRTC had that opportunity with the digital transition in 2011 but opted for a weaker solution.
 
#28 ·
Some of us don't live anywhere near the US border and rely on what limited OTA signals we do receive as an affortable means of information & entertainment. I thought I would share what I submitted to the CRTC regarding CTV's proposed shutdown of certain over the air transmitters, particularly in Northern Ontario.

I want to express my opposition towards the proposed removal from service of various CTV & CTV2 rebroadcast transmitters, including CKNY-TV North Bay (CTV Northern Ontario) and CITO-TV Timmins (CTV Northern Ontario). I personnally utilize over the air television as an affordable means to access local / regional information, entertainment and Canadian content. For a one time investment of 25$ (used for the purchase of an analog/digital television antenna), I have a simple yet reliable & portable device which allows me to stay informed about my community, as well as keep track of what's happening across Ontario, in Canada and around the planet.

I have concerns regarding the affordability of monthly pay television subscriptions or streaming online. I have a modest salary, and as it stands right now, I am able to access free of charge CTV's signal in my area. I do not believe it is fair that, in the future, I should have to pay twice in order to access content that was once provided to me free of charge. I already have to pay twice in order to access CBC's & Radio-Canada's progamming (once by paying for each public broadcaster's operation through my taxes, and a second time with the bandwidth that I now have to pay monthly in order to access their websites). Their platforms, from my experience, are constantly buffering and often time out. The resolution of their live feeds online is often of worse quality than the over the air signals I do receive in my region. I was once able to access TVO & TFO's live programming without a subscription to a paid television service. However, despite paying my share of taxes to fund the operation of both these stations, this is no longer an option provided to me in my area. Furthermore, neither channel streams their feeds online, and I am now shutout from accessing Franco-Ontarian programming offered by TFO.

I have serious reservations that should these private towers & transmitters be removed from service, that I will now no longer be able to reliably or affordably access CTV's content in my area. Large Canadian Cities have arguably the best, fastest & most reliable internet connections in this country. Yet, instead of requiring the people who reside in these communities to stream content over the Internet and subsequently remove their over the air broadcast transmitters, both private & public broadcasters in places like Toronto, Ottawa, Montréal, Vancouver, etc. have not only maintained, but increased the quality of their over the air signals to High Definition, or in some cases, plan to upgrade them to 4K. To date, there are communities in Northern Ontario who do not have access to high speed internet services. The infrastructure simply doesn't exist.

The solutions being proposed aren't equitable for people with limited financial means. I strongly recommend that the CRTC continue to require the maintenance and operation of these existing towers & transmitters in communities such as my own.
 
#29 ·
@ Ex Dilbert
I don't agree. Separate stations for ATSC is a good idea in order to maintain signal quality. Putting two HD stations on one channel might be allowed if ATSC3 is adopted.
That's not remotely true. Watch WQHS out of Cleveland, they broadcast Univision and Unimas in 1080i along with 2 480i subchannels and their picture quality is excellent, even better in quality than many single channel Canadian stations like CBC.
 
#30 ·
I guess that's all in how you define "excellent picture quality." I doubt that it truly is considering the limitations of MPEG2 and the amount of compression required to fit 2HD and 2SD signals into a single ATSC signal. The problem is that the bar has been lowered so much by substandard signals that fail to deliver a good quality picture that it's easy to be fooled into thinking that WQHS is. Even so, I suspect it is good considering the limitations involved. That still doesn't excuse the poor quality of some Canadian signals.
 
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