Tough installation - Location - Help PLease - Page 2 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums
 11Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

post #16 of 245 (permalink) Old 2010-06-07, 06:29 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 111
Well, the closer the sat's longitude to yours, the higher up in the sky it is. For you, that makes quite a difference between Bell and Shaw (22 degrees for 91 and 32 degrees for 107).

I understand that you were sighting for bell's azimuth - and came up about 125' short by rough sextant - but shaw direct will be much higher than bell, if the mountain is comparable in height along the azimuth required. Either way, when I calculate based on your numbers, you clear the mountain with both bell and shaw (albeit barely with Bell):

Tan(radians(22.5)) = 0.414 Bell @91
Tan(radians(31.3)) = 0.608 Shaw @ 107

You are 2000 meters away, and already 900meters high:

900 + (0.414 * 2000) =1730 meters (Bell)
900 + (0.608 * 2000) = 2116 meters (Shaw)

Mountain is about 1524 meters high - should give you 200 meters room on Bell (not much) and about 600 meters on Shaw (enough to play with?).

Good luck, let us know how it turns out.
tico is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17 of 245 (permalink) Old 2010-06-08, 01:52 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: West Coast of Canada - God's Country
Posts: 662
Cool

Gents,

I thought a picture says 1,000 words so here's a couple thousand...

The first one shows the west half of Paul Lake from the top of Gibraltar Rock. The dotted Blue Arrow indicates where the Cabin is located relative to the lake. Notice how steep Harper Mountain is. The green arrow shows the "saddle" where I think the neighbor gets his window to ShawDirect's Birds.

Code:
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/15/paullakewestfromgibralt.png
and

Code:
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/3443/cabinfromacrossthelake.png
This photo displays the Cabin from across the lake. The Red Arrow points towards it, and also where I wanted to put the Dish on the shoreline. The curved Orange Arrow shows the Dock of the Neighbor with the ShawDirect Dish. The dish is just out of the photo beside the dock. (The lots are about 50 feet wide and 150 long (all uphill!).
Jimsathome is offline  
post #18 of 245 (permalink) Old 2010-06-08, 02:17 AM
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Coquitlam BC
Posts: 783
Get some grease filled coax and put the dish out on the tin boat in the second picture!
ae_collector is offline  
 
post #19 of 245 (permalink) Old 2010-06-08, 09:18 AM
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 111
Excellent photos. I still think you've got a shot at it. Like you already mentioned, the dishes are free (or at least cheap) and can even be scrounged on "free garbage day" in any reasonably sized municipality -- and 50 or 100' of RG6 quad shield is going to be easier than burying RG11 from your neighbor's place.

Your neighbor is perhaps shooting through that saddle, but you are only 300' or so from your neighbor, hard to imagine that you couldn't take advantage of the same saddle. Looking at some of those trees by his dock, I'm inclined to believe that his 12' is for the trees, not the mountain.

Make an accurate - large - sextant, say a 2X4 36" long, with a post 21 7/8" high on one end and scout away.

Last edited by tico; 2010-06-08 at 10:32 AM. Reason: changed 100' to 300' - my mistake
tico is offline  
post #20 of 245 (permalink) Old 2010-06-08, 10:44 AM
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Rimouski QC & A Southern Province
Posts: 141
I wasn't going to post this idea until I read the one about putting the dish on the boat......

Quote:
I'll check all of this out in more detail on my next trip there.
When is this "next trip" going to be?

You may be aware that there are 2 times each year when the sun tracks the approximate path of the arc in which the satellites are parked. (This is called "sun transit" and sometimes causes brief outages of your satellite signal, but that's a story for another time...) Unfortunately those times are not in June, but in early March and early October. If your "next trip" were to be in early October, you could calculate the time that the sun passes "behind" the Anik Satellites, and then by viewing the position sun at that exact hour, you would effectively be looking at the satellites needed for Shaw Direct. If you can see the sun at that hour, you can lock onto the satellites with a dish. If the sun were to be in the trees, it would be marginal. If the sun were behind the mountain, you're outta luck.
You may even be able to make an estimation right now....calculate the hour of the sun transit and ask yourself if the cabin is in the shade at that hour at that time of the year.......

You can calculate the days/hours of the sun transit on Shaw Broadcast site (www-dot-cancombroadcast-dot-com) then click on "Canadian Customers English" and follow the links for "sun transit calculator" . You would need to know an approximate lat/long for your cabin. You have about a 10 day window in each of the 2 times of the year when the sun could be used in this way.

Hey...laugh if you want to, but I used this method in a very similar situation to determine I could not see the satellites from my cabin in Quebec......

Good luck, anyway....
joshuals is offline  
post #21 of 245 (permalink) Old 2010-06-08, 11:36 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: West Coast of Canada - God's Country
Posts: 662
Cool

joshuals,

Thanks for the insight. I never would have thought of that approach.

Sun Transit Predictions

Input Data Satellite: Anik F1
Satellite Longitude: 107.3
Ground Station: Custom
Ground Station Latitude: 50.7345
Ground Station Longitude W: 120.1558
Prediction Year: 2010
Season: Fall
Frequency band: Ku (12GHz)
Antenna Size (meters): 1
System Temperature: 135 K
Solar Flux index at 2800 MHZ (SFU): 142.6

Predicted Degradation

Outage
Date Start
GMT
(hh:mm:ss) End
GMT
(hh:mm:ss) Duration

(Minutes) Max C/N
degrad.
(dB)
OCT. 8 Start 18:47:31 End 18:55:07 Duration 7.6 degrad. (db) 2.77
OCT. 9 18:45:39 18:56:27 10.8 4.59
OCT. 10 18:44:35 18:56:59 12.4 6.08
OCT. 11 18:44:07 18:56:55 12.8 6.84
OCT. 12 18:43:52 18:56:40 12.8 6.75
OCT. 13 18:44:02 18:56:02 12 5.84
OCT. 14 18:44:36 18:55:00 10.4 4.28
OCT. 15 18:45:58 18:53:10 7.2 2.51

I'm thinking of going up in a week or two for a few days but this is an interesting approach.
Jimsathome is offline  
post #22 of 245 (permalink) Old 2010-06-08, 02:48 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 638
Pick up an aimfast compass and clinometer model AF1 for about $120.00 and take all the guess work out of the process. Simply point and look takes about 30 seconds.
Sirius Guy is offline  
post #23 of 245 (permalink) Old 2010-06-09, 11:51 AM
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 111
Another cool option if you have an iphone (I don't so, I can't comment on how it works, it does look really cool).

Check out the video on the right side of the screen:

hxxp://www - dot - dishpointer - dot - com/blog/page/4/
tico is offline  
post #24 of 245 (permalink) Old 2010-06-09, 12:08 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: West Coast of Canada - God's Country
Posts: 662
Cool

tico,

I did think of the iPhone app as my nephew has an iPhone and he has tons of apps.

Unfortunately the mountain we are trying to look around (Harper) to see the Sat blocks out the cellular signal (both Roger's and Telus).
Jimsathome is offline  
post #25 of 245 (permalink) Old 2010-06-09, 11:57 PM
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 80
The app works on 3GS phones only and is OK for a rough idea of where the sats should be. There is a work around for the App. where there is no cell service. you have to go into the maps on the phone and wait till it locks onto your location (it wont show a map but will blue dot on the grid) then in 2-3 seconds switch to the app and it should work. i have had it work but it does take a few min for the map to load your location.
a1canuck is offline  
post #26 of 245 (permalink) Old 2010-06-14, 01:49 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: West Coast of Canada - God's Country
Posts: 662
Cool

Gang,

I'm planning to go to the Cabin on Wednesday evening.

So hopefully I'll have some time and decent weather to check out the actual cable run and if the neighbor will let us use his Dish.

I won't be on the web much (dial up ) but will be home Fathers Day.

I'll report on my progress probably on Monday.
Jimsathome is offline  
post #27 of 245 (permalink) Old 2010-06-15, 07:09 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 111
Maybe the horse is out of the barn already. If you see this before your trip, it might be interesting. Moon elevation and azimuth for Paul Lake (if it's visible - sun doesn't look too close, but it is before sunset).

Only for the 18th and 19th, because 17th and before it passes too high to be a useful reference, and too low after the 19th.

06-18 2010 16:48h PST 144degrees True azimuth, 30 degrees elevation.
06-18 2010 17:51h PST 162degrees True azimuth, 34 degrees elevation.

Earlier time is when the elevation matches the elevation of the sat - later time, azimuth matches but elevation is 3 to 4 degrees high.

6-19 2010 18:34h PST 162degrees True azimuth, 28 degrees elevation. If you see that one, you've got it for sure - azimuth correct, elevation 2 to 3 degrees low.
tico is offline  
post #28 of 245 (permalink) Old 2010-06-15, 07:16 PM
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Rimouski QC & A Southern Province
Posts: 141
Interesting !!!!

Where did this data come from?
joshuals is offline  
post #29 of 245 (permalink) Old 2010-06-15, 07:33 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: West Coast of Canada - God's Country
Posts: 662
Cool

tico,

I leave tomorrow afternoon (June 16th) so I'll try to figure out the time and have a look. Right now we are on PDT. PST is an hour earlier so taking that into account, and swapping back from a 24 hour clock, gives me the times in green inserted into your info.

You said:

"06-18 2010 16:48h PST (3:48 PM) 144degrees True azimuth, 30 degrees elevation.

06-18 2010 17:51h PST (4:51 PM) 162degrees True azimuth, 34 degrees elevation.

Earlier time is when the elevation matches the elevation of the sat - later time, azimuth matches but elevation is 3 to 4 degrees high.

6-19 2010 18:34h PST (5:34 PM) 162degrees True azimuth, 28 degrees elevation. If you see that one, you've got it for sure - azimuth correct, elevation 2 to 3 degrees low."

Does that look like what you expected? Thanks for the assist.
Jimsathome is offline  
post #30 of 245 (permalink) Old 2010-06-15, 07:37 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 111
Times - not expected. Let me recalculate and repost (and answer some other Q's at the same time). Please check back soon.
tico is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome