Tough installation - Location - Help PLease - Page 13 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums
 11Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

post #181 of 245 (permalink) Old 2017-08-17, 12:51 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: West Coast of Canada - God's Country
Posts: 662
Cool The next Step in Remediation

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExDilbert View Post
It will work but will not be optimal. The LNB spacing is different due to the different arm lengths of the two dishes.


In this case, the short would likely be between the overheated switch and the dish. Disconnect the cables and check them for a short with an ohmmeter or continuity tester.


They will not work well or last long, especially if they are outside and exposed to water. Moisture will get into the cables and travel. That will eventually corrupt the entire installation, including switches and LNBs. For you own sake, replace the cables that have screw on connectors with new RG6 cables that are terminated with water tight compression connectors.
I thought the fine tuning of the Dish was more onerous with the SHAW60E-G1. And I really didn't get it as dialed in a the old Quad was.

I talked with the neighbor today, as he's entitled to the new xKU LNB (and probably a Multiswitch). When his wife answered the phone, the first thing she said is: "My TV isn't working right!"

My neighbor advised when he was talking to Shaw Direct they said they could send him the xKU LNB, but their technician would have to corroborate this as well as a Multiswitch. I said he needed to remind them this was a self install as Shaw Direct would not support an installation at the Lake when we installed it. I actually don't think they'd support any install where there's more than 175 feet from the Dish to the Receiver (or Multiswitch) => never mind the 600 feet or so to his TVs. I also advised him to tell them I installed a SHAW60E-G1 as that's all I had. He was going to call them tonight and advise.

I will check the Cables for shorts between the Multiswitch and his house. When I installed all the cables between the dish and the Multiswitch, I checked them all and used the best connectors I could find (Aquatight compression fittings AquaTight EX Series 6 & 59 compression connector | PPC Broadband - see earlier post in this thread ).



All cables are in conduit the whole way from the dish to the multiswitch and then the same to the neighbor's house - although he did his own connections. I'm contemplating Meggaring his cables as well. (After disconnecting and isolating them of course.)

I have the new Phillips Multiswitch and it powers up fine. I want to check everything, and put in the correct SHAW75E-G1 LNB before installing it. If we have to pull new cables, we will. I really don't like doing things half-assed=> that only invites trouble later

Regards,
Jim
Jimsathome is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #182 of 245 (permalink) Old 2017-08-17, 10:41 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: West Coast of Canada - God's Country
Posts: 662
Cool Bizarre!

My neighbor called Shaw Direct yesterday evening, and was on the phone for 2 1/2 hours with a gruff older man who made him check every receiver at his house. (Again, he'd just did this a week or so ago.) All he was after was for them to send him a SHAW75E-G1 LNB which he is entitled to. They eventually said they wouldn't send him one unless a Shaw Contract Tech installs it and checks, the whole system.

Where in H3ll were we these folks 6 years ago when we asked them to come and install a system for him?

He explained this was a self install that we did , and Shaw Direct wouldn't take it on 6 years ago when he called them. (My Brother in Law got the same response then as well. He ended up going elsewhere, and now I think all he has is Netflix.) He said they accused him of having multiple dishes (OMG!) and came "this close" to calling him a Liar. Compounding this my neighbor's brother was taken by ambulance to the Princeton Hospital at 4:00 am this morning, and not doing well, so my neighbor is stressed out. He asked me to call Shaw Direct, and see if I could move them. He said he's fed up and ready to tell them to shove it.

(Remember I live in Coquitlam and he's a neighbor at the Lake. So far this year, I've spent about 6 days there at the Cabin, next to his house.)

I called this afternoon and got nowhere (even when I talked to a "supervisor". The office was in Montreal). I explained that even if they sent a Tech, and he saw the install which has the neighbor's first receiver 600+ feet away from this Dish, he'd say it's out of spec and walk away. I advised he's against Harper Mountain (Mt. Harper to some) which rises 2400 Feet directly behind his house! (Paul Lake is at 726 meters & the mountain is at 1524 meters => 5,000 Feet) I reminded him their current spec is 175 feet maximum from Dish to receiver. He wasn't receptive to any of this logic.

He insisted a Contractor come to do it, and so I said fine; when can he get there. He said September 4th (OMG!) I said that's crazy, just send him the LNB and I'll be there next Thursday and install it. He said they mail it and it takes 5=>10 business days, so I said fine. He then said no, the Contractor will be there on Sept 5th (He changed the date in mid conversation, and didn't explain it. I guess contractors don't work on Labor Day.)

I said if you make my neighbor wait until September 5 (19 days!) he's unlikely to be a Customer by then. By the way, my neighbor is a 73 year old retired Fire Inspector who hate bureaucracy and doesn't suffer fools well (neither do I). The Supervisor said he's call the neighbor and make sure the Contractor's visit was okay with him for September 5th.

I can't believe they are giving my neighbor such a hard time. He's been a loyal customer for 6 years, did a self install that took hundreds of hours and lots of $$. And they won't send him a LNB that he's entitled to, so he has to suffer for 19 days for a Contractor to come and wash his hands of it.

Bizarre!

Regards,
Jim
Jimsathome is offline  
post #183 of 245 (permalink) Old 2017-08-18, 07:29 AM
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 194
Quickest and easiest way I'd say to fix that problem is to buy an LNB online from eBay or a reputable satellite dealer. Install it yourself and call and see if CS will re-map it and cancel the service order. Elsewise, see if the online chat option might work out better for them to send you one. Very strange that they're being so obnoxious over it though. Perhaps that agent was having a bad day / week / month / year. I usually politely finish the call and hang up when I get a bad agent (rare) and then either use the online chat or call again. I've always found the online chat to be quicker than waiting on the phone and very friendly but as ever, YMMV.
CrispyPotato is offline  
 
post #184 of 245 (permalink) Old 2017-08-18, 01:10 PM
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: 43° N, 81.2° W
Posts: 7,836
I find that the problem is Shaw company policy. (That's also true of other BDUs.) If a request doesn't fit neatly into their system then it's a tough haul to get what is needed. If you fit into their nice neat category that qualifies for a free LNB upgrade then you get one. If not they just say too bad, pay up. The same goes for things like a requirement for sending out an installer for new equipment. I've run up against things like this many times and sometimes the only recourse is to pay or play hardball by threatening to cancel. Even those doesn't always work.
ExDilbert is online now  
post #185 of 245 (permalink) Old 2017-08-18, 08:02 PM
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 154
Does anyone know if the V code for a 75E xKu LNB is different than the one for a 60E xKu LNB?
goalsgo is offline  
post #186 of 245 (permalink) Old 2017-08-19, 10:57 AM
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 496
@goalsgo : they are the same vcode
frenchophile is offline  
post #187 of 245 (permalink) Old 2017-08-19, 11:23 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: West Coast of Canada - God's Country
Posts: 662
Here you go for all of them:

Map Status

Quad Ku Classic Lineup: 4320
Quad Ku Advanced Lineup: 4322
xKu Classic Lineup: 4321 (6XX) or 4325 (non 6XX)
xKu Advanced Lineup: 4324

If you have recently changed your LNBF from Quad Ku to xKu or vice-versa, you can temporarily change the network map of a DSR600 series receiver via Option 1-1-2-2.
This is temporary and doesn't replace calling Shaw to notify them of the new type of LNBF you are using to permanently update your Network Map.
If you're unsure about the type of LNBF installed on your dish, you can type Option 1-1-3-3 on your remote followed by "A" to run a self test.


Screenshots here: DSR Menu @ Kusat.com

Regards,
Jim
Jimsathome is offline  
post #188 of 245 (permalink) Old 2017-08-19, 12:31 PM
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchophile View Post
@goalsgo : they are the same vcode
Merci Frenchophile!
goalsgo is offline  
post #189 of 245 (permalink) Old 2017-08-19, 01:09 PM
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 154
Thank you Jim.
goalsgo is offline  
post #190 of 245 (permalink) Old 2017-08-19, 02:01 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: West Coast of Canada - God's Country
Posts: 662
Gents,

As I posted above: The Supervisor said he'd call the neighbor and make sure the Contractor's visit was okay with him for September 5th. Well, I talked to the neighbor and Shaw Direct never called. He was by the phone all day awaiting news on his brother. And when he wasn't there his answering machine would have recorded any message.

So my current plan is to test all signals at the Multiswitch again, and then tweak the Dish to see if we can improve it a bit, especially on Channel 630 (which is the neighbor's favorite channel he pays extra for and can't receive right now).

If we get good numbers at the Multiswitch, the new Model SHAW60E-G1 LNB we installed a few weeks ago should be fine for now, and we can wait on a new Model SHAW75E-G1 from Shaw Direct, or elsewhere. I suspect it will work adequately based on the info from earlier work my brother did a few weeks back. It's just not going to be the best it can be => which drives me nuts!

If the numbers are good after tweaking, I plan to replace any connectors found wanting after we megger the cables going to the neighbor's house. My brother has graciously agreed to loan me his megger (insulation tester). If the cables are bad, we can address that at the time.

FYI => In our family 3 of the Brothers are Electricians, another is a PHD in Electrical Engineering, and another is a Mechanical Engineer with a Master's in BA from Stanford. So I've got lots of resources to pull from.

But the assistance from those on this Board has been fabulous! Thanks for contributing.

Regards,
Jim
Jimsathome is offline  
post #191 of 245 (permalink) Old 2017-08-26, 12:26 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: West Coast of Canada - God's Country
Posts: 662
Cool Here's the Data with the SHAW60E-G1 xKU LNB

Hi Folks,

We arrived for a few days of vacation at the Cabin. After spending an anxious couple of hours repairing the water pump (it pumps from the Lake) which decided to fail at midnight just after we went to bed the first night , I spent the rest of yesterday plodding through all the checks at the 75e Dish (with it's SHAW60E-G1 xKU LNB), cables, and Multiswitch that I could think of. Reading were taken with our HDDSR 605 (even the channels we don't receive but the neighbor does) connected into the system by about 40 feet of some very low loss RG6 cable (that is from our Cellular Amplifier System).

I used the far right output from LNB as I'd used the far left one when it was installed. Channels listed are from my neighbor's wife as the ones they'd like to get in addition to the HD sports channels and the rest that come in fine. She loves her Baseball. (The Cabin and neighbor have two different mapping. Classic / Advanced just to add a bit of confusion.)

Here' the numbers at the Dish.

Cabin--Neighbor---Signal---Ecb No.

130------630---------94-------7.5
354------009---------98-------9.7
368------068---------94-------7.1
374------091---------98-------9.6
512------156---------98-------10.6
523------165---------98-------9.6
567------190---------98-------9.8
568------191---------97-------9.2
564------192---------97-------9.0
565------196---------98-------10.1
615------212---------98-------9.9
002------502---------82-------8.1
006------506---------88-------9.7
007------507---------88-------9.7
009------509---------88-------9.7
127------627---------95-------7.8


I was going to tweak the dish but when I "flexed" it in any direction the numbers just got worse. Of course I checked a few other channels like 700, 299, 70, etc., which were rock solid. So I made sure all connections were solid, wiped the dust off the LNB and dish surface and called it good.

Here' the numbers at the Cabin - before the Multiswitch. For this set of data, it is from the cable I typically connect to the 18v input of the multiswitch. After documenting the info, I reviewed each one for the remaining feeds from the LNB, and these numbers are very typical of all of them +/- a digit or two at most.

Cabin--Neighbor---Signal---Ecb No.

130------630---------90-------6.7
354------009---------97-------8.9
368------068---------95-------8.0*
374------091---------97-------8.8
512------156---------98-------9.7
523------165---------97-------9.5
567------190---------97-------9.2
568------191---------96-------8.3
564------192---------97-------8.8
565------196---------97-------9.1
615------212---------97-------9.2
002------502---------88-------9.8*
006------506---------88-------9.6
007------507---------88-------9.7
009------509---------87-------9.5
127------627---------96-------8.2


Here' the numbers at the Cabin => 300+ feet away from the Dish- after the Multiswitch.

Cabin--Neighbor---Signal---Ecb No.

130------630---------75-------3.6 <===
354------009---------82-------4.9 <===
368------068---------84-------5.0 <===
374------091---------86-------5.9
512------156---------89-------6.3
523------165---------94-------6.5
567------190---------90-------6.5
568------191---------68-------2.6 <===
564------192---------90-------6.7
565------196---------78-------4.2 <===
615------212---------81-------4.8 <===
002------502---------81-------8.1
006------506---------83-------8.7
007------507---------84-------8.9
009------509---------80-------8.1
127------627---------94-------7.5


The last set shocked me as I expected the numbers after the multiswitch to be much better. Some channels are downright awful. And that's before they go another 300 feet to the neighbor's house. The Phillips 5x8 muiltiswitch is supposed to give a little boost to the signal to overcome insertion losses.

So I thought I had the ah-ha moment => a dying multiswitch, just as the Shaw Direct folks had told the neighbor => but I had doubted. So as I had bought a new replacement, I installed it expecting all would be good. But not so fast Kemosabbee => the numbers were exactly the same!

All of the cable connections so far are those Aquatight compression fittings. I made certain they are all good and snug. From the multiswitch side feeding to the neighbor's house there are also all Aquatights. One of his cables is the indoor white cable which should be replaced but that doesn't explain how come the signals fall off a cliff after passing through the multiswitch.

For example:

Before the Multiswitch it's not stellar but decent at:

Cabin--Neighbor---Signal---Ecb No.

130------630---------90-------6.7

But right after it's crap:

130------630---------75-------3.6 <=== I have no idea why.

I had checked earlier, and this is not off G1 so the new Bird is not impacting here. So therefore this should be transmitted lower than the 1450 MHz the old Quad LNB was rated at. I've got no theories or idea as to why this is happening.

I talked to the neighbor and said he should call Shaw Direct and get them to send a Tech to change out the SHAW60E-G1 xKU LNB for the correct SHAW75E-G1 xKU LNB, so at least we could maximize the signal to the Multiswitch maybe a little more.

I'm at a loss what to do after that. Can you suggest anything? If there an amplifier we could install before or after the multiswitch, to overcome the next 300 feet to the neighbor's house so they can get these channels?

Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks for the assist.

Regards,
Jim

Last edited by 57; 2017-08-26 at 12:39 PM. Reason: Colour change to be more legible.
Jimsathome is offline  
post #192 of 245 (permalink) Old 2017-08-27, 07:03 AM
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 123
I'm sure you've thought of this, but when you swapped out the multiswitch, did you also swap out the power supply? That's one of the variables in your test, the LNB powered by the receiver directly, versus the LNB powered via the multiswitch.

Brad.
bpsmicro is offline  
post #193 of 245 (permalink) Old 2017-08-27, 07:46 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: West Coast of Canada - God's Country
Posts: 662
Thanks for the post Brad. I did use the new power supply that came with the new multiswitch.

I'm going to check what Channels that are not working at the neighbors and their Bird / Transponders. One of the issues is the changing transponders for various channels over the years by Shaw Direct so past data is tough to use.

I think the simple answer is in the LNB. I got sold a bill of goods by the Service Tech and the SHAW60E-G1 xKU LNB is not as capable as the SHAW75E-G1 xKU on a 75e Dish. I think that's the fatal flaw, as according to the neighbor last night, he had few issues with the old Quad LNB. Of course he didn't get any of the G1 channels either.

Regards,
Jim
Jimsathome is offline  
post #194 of 245 (permalink) Old 2017-08-27, 10:23 AM
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 813
Jim, I am trying to find specs of that Multiswitch and all I can find is a very vague thing on the Phillips site all I see is this;

Signal information is inevitably lost going from any digital source to any TV. Minimum signal loss means you only lose the least amount of that signal information

I see nothing about it amplifying at all.

What was the old Multiswitch ?

What voltage should feed the Multiswitch ?

If power is coming from 300' away, is it enough to fully power the switch ?
Allan B is online now  
post #195 of 245 (permalink) Old 2017-08-27, 11:40 AM
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 496
Jim: Have you looked into having two separate Ku band dishes, one peaked to F2, the other to F1/G1? If the new LNB doesn't work, that should be your next option.
frenchophile is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome