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post #166 of 245 (permalink) Old 2011-06-23, 10:49 PM
 
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I guess I should of read this thread a year ago
We do service Paul Lake.
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post #167 of 245 (permalink) Old 2011-06-25, 11:55 AM Thread Starter
 
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Cool

Electric Guy,

Now you tell me... Oh well I've learned a ton about Shaw Direct installations and such researching this project.

I wonder what the costs would be based on what you read here. Any idea?

By the way, could you advise a few answers to the questions below?

What wholesaler in Kamloops carries Quad Shield Copper Clad Steel Core RG6 in 1,000 foot rolls?

Could you advise signal strength / Ecb/No. numbers for various channels you use for your installs at, or near, Paul Lake?

Do you ever use 75e Dishes around here; and if so what improvement do you see?

Are you a fan of powered, or unpowered Multiswitches?

Thanks for the info

Regards,
Jim
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post #168 of 245 (permalink) Old 2011-06-29, 01:12 AM
 
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Jimsathome sorry for the delay, I sent you a PM
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post #169 of 245 (permalink) Old 2011-07-31, 03:37 AM Thread Starter
 
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Cool How can the Neighbor's F1R 260 SNE SD values be better than ours?

Folks,

Time for a little update. In early July I visited Highland Valley Copper (business trip) so I took the opportunity to save my employer a few $ by staying at the Cabin for 2 nights => rather than a Hotel in Kamloops. So while there I re-checked the signal strength & Ecb/no values and they were quite similar to my previous posting.

I have 2 concerns. The first is F1R 260 SNE SD 8PSK where I have a signal strength of 81 => Ecb/No. 4.8 dB on the 630 in the Cabin. I had the neighbor checked his a week or so before I got there, and on F1R 260 SNE SD his signal strength was 95 => Ecb/No. 7.5 dB .

Similarly on On F2 284 NBC HD 8PSK my signal strength is 94 => Ecb/No. 9.6 dB, but my neighbor gets a signal strength of 87 => Ecb/No. 5.9 dB.

Remembering the set-up. About 350 feet from the Dish to the powered multiswitch. Our 630 is another 45 feet or so via interior cabling. The neighbor is anoth 270 feet or so away after the Multiswitch into his 630. He still was using one crappy piece of cable when I was there so that could explain the poor numbers on F2 284 NBC HD when our were solid, but I can't figure out why his F1R 260 SNE SD values are better than ours?

I'm planning to go on a vacation at the Cabin for a couple weeks starting in August so maybe someone here can give me an idea on how this could happen.

Thanks for the assist.

(On a side note, a Buddy of mine has decided to move from Shaw Cable to Shaw Direct. He's signed up for the Home and Away program. He said they are nicking him $99 as a one time charge when they ship him the second dish. He's getting a 630 & three 600s. Guess who is doing that install at his cottage?)

Regards,
Jim
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post #170 of 245 (permalink) Old 2011-08-23, 03:47 AM Thread Starter
 
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Cool I'm at the Cabin and Tweakin'

Gents,

I'm at the Cabin on Vacation. We've been here for a week, but today was the first "off" day weather wise, so instead of mucking about with the Boat, fishing, water skiing, etc., I decided to tinker with the System.

I finally installed a good ground onto the multiswitch and removed the Lake Cable input into it. The neighbor still is roughing in his cables as clearing the bush behind the Cabins has proved tougher than digging the trench down the side of the road. He's going to put his 4 cables into a water pipe (as a conduit). We had a Black Bear back there eating berries yesterday so that's on hold for a while.

I re-surveyed almost every transponder using our 630; and while almost every Channel on F1R is great (Signal Strength above 90 and EcbNo all above 6.5) the only ones of concern are on Transponders F1RT10 & F1RT13 => these are the only Transponders which are 8PSK modulated on F1R. (I used channels 264 & 260 respectively. Signal Strength is above 80 but EcbNo are only 4.5 &5.0 respectively)

Similarly F2 is great except transponders F2T21 & F2T31 (I used channels 274 & 267 respectively. Signal Strength is above 83 but EcbNo are only 5.6 & 5.1 respectively.)

The F2 Transponders are also 8PSK modulated but there are other on F2 which also are 8PSK but the EcbNo values are fine. So I'm confused as to what's up.

Do you have any ideas?

By the way, I dry assembled the new 75e Dish today as well. The base seemed a bit larger than the 60e so we may need a transition base on the pole. I'm seriously thinking of putting it up in the morning (weather permitting).

Do you think I should put it up? Thanks for the input.

Regards,
Jim
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post #171 of 245 (permalink) Old 2011-08-23, 06:24 AM
 
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The only downside to a bigger dish is looks, while your current numbers are satisfactory i'd use the 75e if no other reason then to prevent rain fade.
rest assured there's a 75cm on the back of my house..

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post #172 of 245 (permalink) Old 2011-08-23, 07:53 AM
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If you have a larger dish you should use it... better for rain fade with a stronger signal, no question about it.
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post #173 of 245 (permalink) Old 2011-08-30, 03:18 AM Thread Starter
 
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Cool A 75e does make a big difference!

Gents,

I took the advice and we decided to go for the 75e. The neighbor went to town and bought a new steel base to transition from the 60e. It cost $20 for a piece of 1/4" steel plate about 6"x10" at a local welding shop. (I guess they gotta eat too!)

Setting it up was somewhat routine. I did notice Shaw doesn't include the extra hardware of earlier versions that allowed fine tuning of the elevation by turning a bolt.



Above is the 75e install completed. (I won't bore you with the intermediate photos.) Notice how large it seems compared to the nearby 60e I put up for another neighbor last year to replace his old round Starchoice Dish. (See earlier post for details.)

Before I started, I recorded the signal values on almost every transponder on both Birds. Below are those original 60e values in brackets beside the new 75e values.

I also figured out why the neighbor had better numbers on some channels than we did at the Cabin. He's got the Advanced Channel Lineup but it's the Classic Channel Lineup at the Cabin. So when I was looking at channel 267 (SNETH1) I'd have to tune his receiver to 309 to get the same signal. When I got him to tune to 284 expecting NBC HD he was really on Odyssey Television. Similarly channel 260 is SNE HD at the Cabin and he's got it on 312. (I should have twigged to this earlier...)

Testing at the 75e dish with a 30 foot piece of scrap RG59 cable connected to my 605, we got an incredible Ecbno value of 12.4 on Channel 700 with signal strength at 99! (I don't think I ever saw a value near that posted anywhere.)

The values below are from inside the Cabin on the 630 PVR. (About 400 feet of cable away from the dish. The Multiswitch is in between – see earlier posts.)


Sat F1R


Channel 461 => Signal Strength 98 (92)=> Ecbno 9.1 (7.0) Transponder F1RT2

Channel 419 => Signal Strength 98 (94)=> Ecbno 9.7 (7.4) Transponder F1RT3

Channel 653 => Signal Strength 98 (93)=> Ecbno 9.1 (7.2) Transponder F1RT4

Channel 457 => Signal Strength 98 (93)=> Ecbno 9.4 (7.2) Transponder F1RT5

Channel 399 => Signal Strength 98 (95)=> Ecbno 9.5 (7.6) Transponder F1RT6

Channel 501 => Signal Strength 98 (94)=> Ecbno 9.2 (7.4) Transponder F1RT7

Channel 264 => Signal Strength 90 (80)=> Ecbno 6.6 (4.5) Transponder F1RT10

Channel 260 => Signal Strength 91 (82)=> Ecbno 6.7 (5.0) Transponder F1RT13

Channel 336 => Signal Strength 98 (93)=> Ecbno 9.1 (7.1) Transponder F1RT12

Channel 373 => Signal Strength 97 (93)=> Ecbno 8.9 (7.2) Transponder F1RT15

Channel 548 => Signal Strength 98 (90)=> Ecbno 10.4 (6.5) Transponder F1RT18

Channel 333 => Signal Strength 97 (91)=> Ecbno 9.0 (6.7) Transponder F1RT10


Sat F2


Channel 276 => Signal Strength 95 (88)=> Ecbno 7.8 (6.1) Transponder F1RT2

Channel 245 => Signal Strength 96 (90)=> Ecbno 7.8 (6.4) Transponder F1RT7

Channel 289 => Signal Strength 96 (90)=> Ecbno 7.8 (6.5) Transponder F1RT8

Channel 280 => Signal Strength 97 (92)=> Ecbno 8.3 (6.9) Transponder F1RT10

Channel 284 => Signal Strength 96 (90)=> Ecbno 8.1 (6.6) Transponder F1RT15

Channel 274 => Signal Strength 96 (85)=> Ecbno 8.2 (5.6) Transponder F1RT21

Channel 291 => Signal Strength 96 (88)=> Ecbno 7.9 (6.2) Transponder F1RT25

Channel 700 => Signal Strength 99 (97)=> Ecbno 10.7 (8.8) Transponder F1RT28

Channel 267 => Signal Strength 89 (83)=> Ecbno 6.4 (5.1) Transponder F1RT31

Channel 297 => Signal Strength 93 (88)=> Ecbno 7.2 (6.2) Transponder F1RT32

I bolded the lowest Ecbno values (above) on each Bird. I actually tuned to these channels when tweaking the Dish to obtain the best values possible.

I checked the neighbor’s signal levels before and after the 75e. (Remember his 605 was about 300 feet further along from the Multiswitch, which was 355 feet from the Dish).

These were his poorest values:

Channel 319 => Signal Strength 88 (78)=> Ecbno 6.1 (4.1)

Channel 312 => Signal Strength 86 (78)=> Ecbno 5.8 (4.2)

Here’s just a couple after values he had:

Channel 700 => Signal Strength 98 => Ecbno 10.3

Channel 299 => Signal Strength 97=> Ecbno 8.8

Well it’s time for Bed & work tomorrow. I’ll post on final Box terminations and stuff later.

I hope this post is helpful and informative.

Regards,
Jim
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post #174 of 245 (permalink) Old 2011-08-30, 06:24 AM
 
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nice results! swapping the the 60 for a 75e will be worth every second and cent it took!! enjoy!!

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post #175 of 245 (permalink) Old 2012-06-02, 11:49 AM Thread Starter
 
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Cool Time for an update - June 1, 2012

I just got back from 4 nights at the Cabin.

(I had business in the area so I stayed there and save the company a few $$)

All the signal strength / ecbno values are at, or better, than posted above.

While there my Mom asked me to re-configure the set up so she could have the 605 Receiver in her room instead of the current "parallel" feed via a multiplexed output from the main TV's 630. It was working great => but you've got to listen to your mother. Besides, it's her place. The 605 was connected to an almost never used basement TV for her grandkids. I bet the whole place is only used 6 weeks a year max!

This sounded a little routine as the RG6 Cable feeds all go via a multimedia panel I had installed in the second bedroom closet. It was a simple matter of going to the basement bedroom, powering down the 605 (which was working fine there), and moving it to the new Master Bedroom. Then I reconnected both sets of RG6 cables with the feed from the multiplexer going to the basement bedroom, and the Sat feed (which comes direct from the multiswitch) going to the New Master Bedroom feed. I use barrel connectors between the RG6 cables.

I then repowered the devices and the mutiplexed feed to the basement bedroom was working fine. I then went to the new Master Bedroom and the red "unlocked" light was on the 605 and the dreaded Sat Feed was not locked in and I should wait. So I did...

Of course it never changed so I was left scratching my head. The first thing I thought of was an issue with the cabling, maybe a stray shield wire was contacting the center conductor on a connector. I didn't see any, nor did I see any damage to the cables, but just in case (as I left a lot of slack) I put new connectors on => so I knew they were perfect. => Still no Joy

So I took the 605 to the multimedia panel and plugged it into the Sat feed from the multiswitch. It locked right in. Bizzare. So I swapped out the Cable from the wall to the 605 in the new Master in case that was the issue, and then re-connected everything. Nope.

So Mom said if you can't get it to work can she at least go back to the parallel feed? So I hooked that back up and it again was working well. I decided to try the 605 there one last time as all the cables and connectors were proven and / or swapped out. (Before this I patched the Sat feed over to the old master bedroom and again the 605 locked right in!) Of course I reconnected it and still no Joy!

I left it with the parallel set up and the 605 connected to the old master and locked in. I'm stumped .

Do you have any idea what's going on?

Regards,
Jim
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post #176 of 245 (permalink) Old 2012-06-03, 09:20 PM
 
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Is it possible that the cable to the new Master is mis-identified in some way? Could the cable tags have been mixed up during installation? Another possibility is that a drywall screw or picture hanger has punctured your RG6 cable in the wall somewhere.

A quick test with a multimeter using the ohms function would eliminate these possibilities. Check for shorts first and if that is not a problem then manually short the cable at the far end to confirm you are on the correct cable at the wiring closet. If no joy then you must have an open somewhere along the length of that cable.
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post #177 of 245 (permalink) Old 2012-06-10, 12:35 PM Thread Starter
 
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Cool But somehow that doesn't jive with the multiplexed output continuing to work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skifan View Post
Is it possible that the cable to the new Master is mis-identified in some way? Could the cable tags have been mixed up during installation? Another possibility is that a drywall screw or picture hanger has punctured your RG6 cable in the wall somewhere.

A quick test with a multimeter using the ohms function would eliminate these possibilities. Check for shorts first and if that is not a problem then manually short the cable at the far end to confirm you are on the correct cable at the wiring closet. If no joy then you must have an open somewhere along the length of that cable.
Skifan,

Thanks for the post. Sorry for the delay but I was away to Pittsburgh on business this week and not able to get back to this.

Mislabling of the cables was a consideration but they were proven by going back to the original multiplexed output from the main TV's 630 which is working fine again. I did check the cable with one of my multimeters (I have my Journeyman Electrician Certification, and Technician level training some years ago from BCIT) for shorts (none found). In my haste I did attempt to short out the new Master Bedroom end, but it was clumsy and I did not get it to work. So an intermittent open still remains a possibility.

I personally pulled all of the cabling during a recent (2009 /2010) reconstruction, but other trades drywalled, painted, etc., and they could have driven a nail, or screw, into this cable. But somehow that doesn't jive with the multiplexed output continuing to work. Hence the dilemma.

Regards,
Jim
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post #178 of 245 (permalink) Old 2017-08-05, 04:00 AM Thread Starter
 
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Gents,

Just an update. We are trying to move to the xKU LNB. I was coerced by an installer to put the SHAW60E-G1 into the 75e dish instead of the SHAW75E-G1. I hope it works. I will advise.

Regards,
Jim
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post #179 of 245 (permalink) Old 2017-08-13, 04:05 PM Thread Starter
 
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Cool Dead Multiswitch ?

Well the install of the xKU LNB wasn't as routine as expected. Most installers say it's a simple swap out, and no Dish re-alignment is required, but that wasn't the experience here. I powered down the Multiswitch before the swap, and hoped it would be a 5 minute job.

Thankfully we'd brought all the extension cords, wrenches, and gear to realign the dish as the signal quality dove off a cliff as soon as the SHAW60E-G1 went onto the 75e dish. It was like the Dish had "sagged" as the majority of the correction was in the vertical plane. We optimized it to a few channels as 700 and 70 we 98 /99 % and the Ecbno values were above 10 at the Dish. Even some of the neighbor's channels were in the 90s. (We didn't check them all.)

We thought we were home and cooled out, so powered up the Multiswitch at the Cabin and it seemed fine. Even the neighbor said all was good. But the next day, after I left to return to Vancouver, he was complaining he'd lost all but 8 channels. That turned out to be an overstatement. He really lost some of the 8 channels he & his wife watch most often. Remember his subscription is totally different than ours, and so is the package of channels he receives. I had him call Shaw Direct to get a re-hit on all his receivers after the xKU LNB was installed. He called them again after losing some channels, and they ended up doing some tweaks (resets) and some came back but the main remaining issue is the loss of Channel 630 (Advanced lineup / 130 Classic) which we don't get but he watches all the time.

After 2 hours on the phone with Shaw Direct, and after he explained the system to them, they said the issue is with the Multiswitch. So I had my brother check the signal before, and after the Multiswitch over at the neighbor's; and in particular Channel 630. Before the switch it's 92% with an Ecbno of 7.1. Not fabulous, but certainly acceptable. But after the Multiswitch at the neighbor's it dropped to zero and and Ecbno of-10 dB. He also said Channel 503 (Advanced) was 78% with an EcbNo. of 7.8 db at the neighbor's after the switch, but the picture would breakdown on the TV and was virtually unwatchable.

My brother had said the Multiswitch was stinking hot (an electrician's term which means it's too hot for him to keep his hand on it ) but thought the sun beaming down on it (it was 40° C that day in the shade) was the cause. I have read where a single shield wire contacting the center conductor in RG6 is enough to cause a Multiswitch to fail and overheat. And as the neighbor made most of his own connections (some screw-on types), I too am now suspecting the Multiswitch. It's also 6 years old and maybe the high ambient temperature and age just caused it to fail. Most solid state electronics fail when powering up or down; and that may be the case here.

The only direct replacement (Phillips SDW5058) I could find was in the USA (eBay), so I ordered it and hope to have it soon. Meanwhile the neighbor is without some of his favorite channels. Hopefully the Multiswitch won't go completely dead before I can get up there and replace it

Regards,
Jim
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post #180 of 245 (permalink) Old 2017-08-13, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
I was coerced by an installer to put the SHAW60E-G1 into the 75e dish instead of the SHAW75E-G1. I hope it works. I will advise.
It will work but will not be optimal. The LNB spacing is different due to the different arm lengths of the two dishes.

Quote:
I have read where a single shield wire contacting the center conductor in RG6 is enough to cause a Multiswitch to fail and overheat.
In this case, the short would likely be between the overheated switch and the dish. Disconnect the cables and check them for a short with an ohmmeter or continuity tester.

Quote:
And as the neighbor made most of his own connections (some screw-on types)
They will not work well or last long, especially if they are outside and exposed to water. Moisture will get into the cables and travel. That will eventually corrupt the entire installation, including switches and LNBs. For you own sake, replace the cables that have screw on connectors with new RG6 cables that are terminated with water tight compression connectors.
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