Is the card swap complete? - Page 2 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

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post #16 of 36 (permalink) Old 2008-11-14, 01:35 PM
 
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Why dishnetwork is behind on the switchover.

That reason would be 13+ million customers to swap out...compared to Bell's 1+ million or so.


http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...AEB02B6F128%7D
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post #17 of 36 (permalink) Old 2008-11-14, 01:50 PM
 
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Last I heard, Dish is expected to be switched over in early 2009. In which case, I would be surprised if N3 wasn't hacked by late 2009 but who knows.

I have read several sites claiming that N3 is nothing more then a tweaked version of N2 (much like N2 was nothing more then a tweaked version of N1) and it's only a matter of time. I have no idea how much truth there is to this though.

This seems to be a never-ending circle between the sat companies and the hackers. Admittedly, I'm not up to speed on all the technical aspects of why things are the way they are but I do find it odd that Bell or Dish couldn't come up with their own system to prevent the piracy.

Then again....maybe doing that would be ten times to easier to hack...
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post #18 of 36 (permalink) Old 2008-11-14, 02:20 PM
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Years ago, piracy on DirecTV was huge but they swapped out cards and since then it's basically gone entirely - is it because their new system is foolproof (I'm very sceptical that any system is truly foolproof (although it's certainly possible that the cost is higher than the rewards)) or is it simply because there was an easier target
I would say a better target. Two is better than one.

-Mike

Sony XBR65X930D | Denon AVR-X1300W | BELL Fibe | Panasonic DMP-UB900 4K | XBOX One X
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post #19 of 36 (permalink) Old 2008-11-14, 06:59 PM
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Here's a cut and paste I found elsewhere:

Quote:
DN N3 Switch to Begin Late November

Important Notice

G3 Smart Card Exchange - Managing Your Inventory

October 8, 2008

Dear DN Retailer,

Beginning in July of this year, DN launched a project to exchange old (Aladin) Smart Cards in customer receivers for new (G3) Smart Cards. As part of this process, we are sending new G3 Smart Cards directly to customers with instructions on how to complete the simple installation process. Additionally, we have started to include the new G3 Smart Cards in receivers currently being sold - so for these receivers, the G3 Smart Card exchange may not be necessary.


Support for Un-Exchanged Smart Cards is Scheduled to End in November 2008 - In November, we plan to start the process of shutting off programming to Aladin Smart Cards. Therefore, it is important that you install customers with older receivers from your inventory first in order to deplete your supply of Aladin Smart Cards. The Aladin Smart Cards in these older receivers may be exchanged for the new G3 Smart Cards after they are activated with customers and before any programming shut-offs.


First In, First Out Inventory Management - As a reminder, to help you manage your inventory and ensure your customers have the appropriate equipment, please make sure you are using a “first in, first out” (FIFO) inventory management process. A FIFO rotation of equipment means you install the receivers you received in earlier shipments before installing the receivers you received in later shipments. This will help ensure that the receivers which have the Aladin Smart Card are moved out of your stock prior to programming shut-offs.
- Please note that there will not be a process to exchange Aladin Smart Cards in receivers that remain in your inventory after October 2008, so it is important to rotate older receivers out of your inventory before November 2008.

Showroom Accounts - The G3 Smart Card exchange also applies to receivers used on showroom accounts. If you remove a receiver with an Aladin Smart Card from your showroom account and then re-activate it before exchanging the Aladin Smart Card with a new G3 Smart Card, that receiver may not be able to receive all applicable programming after November 2008
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post #20 of 36 (permalink) Old 2008-11-14, 10:39 PM
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Nagra3

Hi Folks,

Ok lets be really with everyone here. I read most of these posts and people are taking like Nagra3 has stopped everything with BEV. Here are some key points to keep in mind.

1. N3 was made by someone. It will be hacked by someone.
2. N3 is not a super secure algorithm but it will do for a few months.
3. Hackers have hacked in the much stronger things then N3 (Again it was made by someone it will be hacked by someone)
4. BEV spent Millions upon millions for this new some what secure N3 BUT it did not cost them a cent cause they will pass it on to us the customers. Seems simple right.

When N3 is hacked and I will guarantee you it will be, all this was in vain and at the end of the day the prices will still be up. There are already some RoM240 fixes with some very exclusive people that will charge alot for the hack and ride for a few months much like they did with N2. Then is will go public cause someone who paid a lot of money for this fix will be pissed that he did pay it and hack the hacker and put it public. What bell needs to do is have the servers register with a server online for updates and keys. Each box will have a unique code for the server. Something along those lines.

Anyway that was just my 2 cents.

Cheers To all, and it was a Valliant effort on BEVS part
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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 2008-11-14, 11:50 PM
 
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Does cable have the same problems with security or is it done the way you describe, each box registered and verified by a server? Why doesn't Bell require everyone to have the box check in via phone line every few months?
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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 2008-11-15, 12:05 AM Thread Starter
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BEV spent Millions upon millions for this new some what secure N3 BUT it did not cost them a cent cause they will pass it on to us the customers. Seems simple right.
Your logic is facile and defies all rational thought.

Currently, there are 1.8 million Bev subs and until this week perhaps 300,000 pirates. Total Bell TV revenue is maybe $1.3 billion annually. ($600 per sub average).

If piracy continued to mount so there were 300,000 subs and 1.8 million pirates the price would go up to $3,600 per sub per year.

If that were top happen, do you really think people would pay? Of course not, they would leave Bell and it would be out of business.

The reality is that if the numbers fell to 1.5 million subs and 700,000 pirates, Bell TV would likely go bankrupt.

What pirates never understand is two simple economic conceptsiminishing marginal returns and the Free Rider phenomena.



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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 2008-11-15, 12:08 AM Thread Starter
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Why doesn't Bell require everyone to have the box check in via phone line every few months?
tvguy68, I argued the same thing since I started these forums. It will work if the pirate has a modifed access card and and ExpressVu receiver but it won't work against modifed FTA boxes .



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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 2008-11-16, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by hugh View Post
The reality is that if the numbers fell to 1.5 million subs and 700,000 pirates, Bell TV would likely go bankrupt.
Hmmm .. although Star Choice seems to be turning a profit at 900,000 subs.

In the short run, satellite TV (and, specifically, Bell satellite TV) is threatened by revenue loss from pirates (loss that is shared by the programmers). But longer term, satellite TV (in urban/suburban markets) is more threatened by technological changes like wireline solutions from cable and migration to fibre by telcos.

It's many years away, of course, but one wonders how much piracy will remain in, say, 10 years when satellite may have redefined itself as largely a rural service just as dial-up Internet has become today.
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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 2008-11-16, 08:58 AM
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Good point. I might be wrong but I was always under the impression that Star Choice, with half the # of Subscribers actually turn a profit, yet Bell TV (ExpressVu) do not. Maybe I am wrong.

Just because Bell's system is currently secure I do not anticipate 700,000 pirates (or whatever the # is in reality), to move over in bulk to Bell. It will happen of course, a small percentage will come in from the cold for sure.

Again as it is normally accepted that a large percentage of Pirates also have a 'basic' package with Bell TV, then the numbers will not increase dramatically. They may take on another Theme package or 2 as they got used to certain shows but these will be dropped as soon as the FTA box starts to show the channels again.
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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 2008-11-16, 10:01 AM
 
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Doesn't the very fact that nobody has a clue how many pirates BTV has/had prove that the number doesn't matter?

BTW, I believe BTV had more than 300K pirates...
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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 2008-11-16, 10:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by granduncle View Post
Doesn't the very fact that nobody has a clue how many pirates BTV has/had prove that the number doesn't matter?

BTW, I believe BTV had more than 300K pirates...
I agree!!! I can drive around in a 1 square mile centred on where I live and count at least
a 1000 pirate setups. Multiply that by the whole of the Greater Vancouver area and the
count is HUGE.

What I have heard is many have a legit Bell TV dish and receiver but with a basic
package plus an pirate setup.

FaxCap
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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 2008-11-16, 11:02 AM
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I think that anyone using an FTA for illegal reception should help us all out by putting a Skull & Crossbones sticker on the Dish....

Then we can count much easier and it will stop all this guessing.
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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 2008-11-16, 06:18 PM
 
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Just for the information of all, Nagra3 has been out in Europe (where the company responsible for designing the Nagra3 software is located) for over a year with their satellite companies and it still has not been hacked.
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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 2008-11-16, 07:34 PM
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Ya, but who wants European television.

-Mike

Sony XBR65X930D | Denon AVR-X1300W | BELL Fibe | Panasonic DMP-UB900 4K | XBOX One X
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