ON - Kitchener, Waterloo, Guelph, Cambridge, Bruce Peninsula

[mrmemario]

Does anyone in the thread have a pre-amp or rotator they aren't using that I could try? I have a Channel Master 3671 up on the tower that I am getting sick of turning to pick up different channels. I'm getting good reception and wonder if getting a pre-amp would help. (running about 30 feet of coaxial down to 2 different tv's, both with built in tuners) I'm going to try an amplifier on Saturday from a Rogers Cable set up. I will post my results, maybe someone has tried something like this.

[Jase88]

mrmemario, Perhaps a typo, but you indicate that your reception is already good. Are you simply trying to improve on that? Or is the reception not what you expected, and you're attempting to fix that?

A cable drop amp works well as a pre-amp for over the air TV. Just ensure that it's a newer model that amplifies up to 700MHz, and allows you to insert power into the coax down lead from the antenna. A single port amp only is recommended. If you use a multi-port amp, ensure that you terminate unused ports. You want to place the amp as close to the antenna as possible.

Note that some cable drop amps are not intended for outdoor use. If it's an Electroline, you're okay for outside--just ensure that you add some silicone sealant to the f-connections.

[CowLion]

Jase88, thanks for the welcome. I've read the FAQ before, though it's been awhile and good to read again.

From what Blondre said about receiving Global 6.1 using amplified rabbit ears on his ground floor, I managed to snag an old set of ears and crudely hook them to my TV. Lo and behold, I received 6.1! It's coming in anywhere between 60% and 90% signal strength, though it's not exactly perfect.

I blame my crude connection on the ears. They're old and they were meant to screw into a TV, so I currently have them screwed to a balun using a couple screws and nuts. I think I'm getting some issues from that, as reception fluctuates wildly if I touch them.

The odd thing now is that, using only the rabbit ears, I'm receiving all the other channels I was picking up on my bow tie antenna and at the same strength. My understanding is that rabbit ears should only pick up VHF channels, yet I'm getting 28.1, 29, and 61 on top of 6.1 and 13.1. Is this another case of virtual channels? Is there a resource for channel information that can tell me if a virtual channel is actually a VHF or UHF channel?

In the meantime, I think it's time to invest in a better pair of rabbit ears to see if that clears up the problem with Global.

[mrmemario]

In January I had purchased a brand new mini-state (before I knew anything about Digital Home!) Throughout the summer I began reading and reading through as much of these threads as I could. I then bought this 3671, hoping to pick up signals a little more reliably. I had pretty good success with the mini-state and didn't have to deal with rotators or pre-amps. I have been able to pick up all the signals I was able to pick up with the mini-state, however, manually moving the antenna is a bit of a nuisance (both for me and my wife, she has to yell up to me when I get the channel).
So I guess I'm not sure how much better it could get with a pre-amp/amp. I read through the pre-amp/amp info page so I understand the basics and will be trying out a newer? Rogers Amp (I'm pretty sure it is the one that goes to 700Mhz) understanding the noise issue. I will be working with a Rogers Cable Tech, so I'm hoping he can fill in all the blanks (for me there seem to be a lot)
Again, Thanks for all the input! It is very much appreciated

[brantford bill]

jase88 - what i think he's saying is that he doesn't want to be turning his rotor so much to catch all the channels he gets and he's hoping that a pre-amp will help with his antenna's beamwidth. I don't think a pre-amp will help at all, when you have a really strong but directional antenna like a 3671 thats what you get, if all your channels arn't coming from the same direction you have to turn the antenna all the time to get different channels because of the antennas narrow beamwidth, mrmemario to get what you'd like you'll need a different kind of antenna that has a wider beamwidth.

[Jase88]

CowLion: Those channels are all local UHF stations. Because you're so close to them, it's possible to receive them using just about anything.

28.1 (CICA, RF 28) is co-located with Global's channel 6 transmitter just south of Ayr near the Brant/Waterloo Region border (also referred to as Paris).

[Jase88]

Thanks for the clarification, Brantford Bill. And of course you're correct: A pre-amp will not increase the beam width of an antenna.

Given mrmemario's location and split to two tuners, I'd recommend both a pre-amp and rotor--even with an antenna that has a wider beam width. It certainly wouldn't be any fun manually rotating an antenna come winter!

[mrmemario]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking!

This might seem like a no-brainer, but I know a lot of people have gone with the CM 7777, but since I'm not stacking or ganging or inputing another antenna into the pre-amp, wouldn't the Winegard AP 8275 be a better choice? I don't have to worry about too much signal on 13.1 at 35 dbs, plus antenna gain?

[BestSignal]

Quick note as I'm going out the door.
Antenna went to my sonciview 8000 to Pioneer Elite Rec to Pioneer Elite 60" Plasma. Changed the route to direct into the TV.
Did a scan and I'm getting a lot more stations including 9.1 cfto ,13.1 ctv,and 11.1 chch.

If anyone is interested I'll post all details and model numbers.
What a difference a quality tuner makes.

[mrmemario]

I got the amplifier up and running prefectly. It ended up being an Electroline so it is up on the tower. It was rated upto 1000MHz at 14.5 db gain (no uhf/vhf specific that I am aware of).
Results:

CHCH (11.1) 20-22% before 42-45% after
TVO (28.1) nothing before 20-25% after
CTS (36.1) 10-15% before 45-50% after

Global (6.1) and CTV (13.1) remained the same at 97-98%

I didn't rotate the antenna, so these are just based on the antenna pointed toward Hamilton.
Would I be shooting myself in the foot by adding another Electroline right under the first one?
I haven't rotated the antenna so

[Jase88]

The Electroline drop amps typically amplify from 54-1000MHz: Which completely covers FM, VHF, and UHF. Some of these amps have a loss-less reverse path (5-42MHz) amplification feature, but this won't apply to OTA. Note that if you're near any FM transmitters, you may notice some problems with channel 6 Paris. These amps do not trap out (attenuate) FM band signals.

Eventually, using a proper pre-amp designed for over-the-air TV (with an FM trap) would be desirable. But this amp will certainly do the job.

You don't need to add a second amplifier. Too much signal is as detrimental as not enough. 14.5dB average gain is plenty for a short run of cable going into a two-split.

Your next project should be a rotator. Advice and discussion on rotators can be found here. Alternatively, you can create a second antenna feed (from a second antenna pointed in another direction), and switch between feeds in the house using an A/B switch.

[CowLion]

Man, Global 6.1 is really frustrating me! I get the rabbit ears antenna setup in a position where I get a strong signal and crystal clear reception and then the next day, it's the same strong signal but poor reception. All the other channels remain the same.

I don't think my crude connection is to blame, either. Or maybe it is. I'm not sure.

With a strong signal (70% to 90%), what would cause errors in the reception? Would it have anything to do with FM signals?

(I'm not sure on the terminology here. I call them "errors" because that's what my TV lists them as in the signal statistics screen. The end result is a bunch of blocks in the image and choppy sound. I feel like I'm watching digital cable again, ha.)

[Neuro_geek]

Channel 6 is highly susceptible to radio interference from noisy electronics in the home. Getting the antenna outside or at least in an attic will probably help considerably.

With your rabbit ears, position them horizontally so that they form a straight line. Extend them only to the point where they are 183cm tip to tip. Now rotate the whole antenna until the signal is strongest (probably, so that broadside points toward Paris, Ontario, but that might not be the case if there are strong reflections around you). Don't change the orientation of the "rabit-ears," they are the most directional when straight horizontally like this. If you want, you can cheaply replicate this outside with a little coax, a cheap balun, and two pieces of 91.5cm long speaker wire tacked to a wall.

[CowLion]

I'm in a small apartment. I don't have an attic and putting an antenna outside is not allowed (although, I could probably hide a custom one on the ledge or as part of the air conditioner without anyone noticing.)

As for my current setup is a 218cm very durable set of rabbit ears from the '80s (roughly) placed in a straight line and facing southwest with a pre-amp. I'll try shortening it to 183cm tonight.

Would an FM trap help at all? I'm reading a lot about pre-amps over amplifying noise along with the television signal and using FM traps to reduce this noise. I've never had one till now because I wasn't really having an issue with channel 6.1 until the digital switch. Will an FM trap only reduce a specific type of noise or does it cancel out any radio interference, be it from a radio tower or a microwave?

[Neuro_geek]

If you have a strong signal, an amp is only going to make things worse. An FM trap is not really needed unless you use a preamp. Did you ever notice "ghosting" on the old analogue signal? that would indicate multipath (i.e., a reflection). Does your apartment face southwest? You could make a nearly-invisible "wire-dipole" for 6 and put it outside, but that will likely only help if you can get it outside on the side facing the transmitter.