ON - Kitchener, Waterloo, Guelph, Cambridge, Bruce Peninsula

[tvlurker]

I notice several Toronto stations seem to have higher UHF channels than the DBGH covers. Are they expected to move to other channels?

Yes, in 2011.

[Jase88]

@afternoonnap: My experience in Kitchener with a CM4228HD is that there is enough of a directional difference between Buffalo and Toronto that a rotor is required.

Some stations are strong enough (CHCH Hamilton, for example) that you do not need to turn the antenna when pointing at Toronto to receive it. Unfortunately this is not the case with Buffalo stations.

WNLO is the most powerful Buffalo station coming into this area. The others tend to come in more at night. To improve reliability, I would recommend a tower. The highest you can go with a simple tripod is about 5'. More commercial-type roof mounts enable larger masts. But this adds significant weight to your roof (and significant costs).

Note that FOX Buffalo (WUTV) is nearly impossible to receive in Waterloo Region on a consistent basis.

[hsplrguy]

Afternoonnap in West Galt as long as you got height to your antenna no obstructions like trees in front of your signals for Toronto/Buffalo you should be good. I know a few people in Galt that have 4228 and another with a 4248 yagi arrow like mine and get Fox in HD you will get the occasional drop but you also need a good amp and a rotor is a must!!! I am in Hespeler and get Fox 95% of the time usually only cuts on heavy rains or very foggy conditions.

[afternoonnap]

Thanks tvlurker, Jase88 and hsplrguy. I was thinking of a rooftop tripod because my rooftop is quite high. I don't think I have a good spot for a tower: our backyard is much lower, there are huge trees on one side of our house and deck or driveway on the the other side and back. Here's a photo from the highest point (which is flat, about 4' x 8', a bit like our neighbour's but ours is not copper covered like his):



I marked what I think are the two Buffalo antenna site directions (based on landmarks and drawing lines in Google Earth). As well as the flat spot, there is a ridge so I could move to the left or right. Would it be better to point through the maple or the white pine?

I do have two chimneys, one to left and one to the right from where I took the picture. Would a chimney mount allow more height than a tripod?

[Jase88]

A tripod mount would fit perfectly in that flat middle area of your roof. This area also appears to be higher than your chimneys.

I think you'll do well without a tower up on that hill....

[stampeder]

afternoonnap, those 2 trees are probably going to cause problems for reception. The nearby coniferous one will probably let the signals past unless it sways in the wind into the signal path, but in the distance is a bare deciduous tree that is going to attenuate the signals once it gets all leafy. On the other hand all that copper on nearby roofs can do some very odd (hopefully good) things!

This thread describes how trees and OTA interact:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=104178

Test with a tripod-mounted antenna but if it will not be high enough to reduce some of the tree problems my advice is to get the antenna(s) as high up as possible, such as with a tripod-mounted, guywired pole about 20 feet up.

Which direction is the CN Tower in this photo - over that white building to the left?

[afternoonnap]

@Jasse88: Just to be clear, the roof in the picture is my neighbour's, not mine. But my roof is similarly steep. Presumably the flat spots were intended for widow walks, but there is no evidence that our house ever had one.

@stampeder: Thanks for the suggestion of a guy-wired tripod & mast - that might be best. While up taking the photo, I noticed I'll need re-shingling soon - should that be done before or after installing a guyed mast?

I'm not sure where to route the signal, power and grounding wires. I've been thinking the vertical sides of the flat part would be good to run at least the signal and power wires into my attic (which has an old unused flue straight to the basement). Is it safe to run the ground into the house?

I did read that tree thread before, but wasn't sure if it was the trunk or branches or leaves that are problematic. I guess it's all of them.

The CN Tower is to the left outside of the picture. Unfortunately it goes through the top of a black walnut almost as high as the pine. The walnut may be on my property, but I don't want to take it down. However the Toronto stations are less important while we still have cable.

After reading one of your posts, I wondered if my neighbour's copper might help...

[stampeder]

I would have the roofing done first. Attaching to poor roofing makes bad matters worse.

Grounding into the house is never a good option. See the Grounding thread for everything you could ever want to know about that topic:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=62265

[hsplrguy]

Hey Afternoonnap yes defiantly the roof needs re shingled before mounting a tripod and antenna why do it 2x. I point right between a black walnut also and only get really bad problems during a storm with high winds when the leaves are present. I have 2 large sugar maples behind me but they are about 90 ft away from me. If you can point between you might be ok. The copper as Stampeder mentioned may help or hinder don't really know but there are other materials on the market so you would not have to use if you have copper on your roof. It maybe something to look into if your doing roof replacement. Just won't last as long as the copper. I think with your height you should get reception on most if not all.

[usagisisa]

Hi guys,

I've been reading through the forum, and I'm a bit out of my element.
I've just moved from Chicago, where I successfully used my trusty rabbit ears to pick up analog and digital signals. (I do have a TV that receives ATSC) Now that I'm back in Kitchener (Highland Hills area), my little indoor rabbit ears only pick up analog. I get CTV and CBC en Francais, as clear as a bell. Global is pretty good. CBC English, TVO and CITY are pretty snowy.

Is there anything I can do to improve my signal?
Would an amped antenna help? I have a simple RCA non-ampled antenna. (Kinda looks like a snail!)
Do I have to have an outdoor antenna to do better? I'm not handy enough to get up on the roof and put an antenna out there.
If I do have to go with an outdoor antenna, are there stores where I can buy an antenna and have them install and set me up?

I really don't want to have to pay for cable. Just on principle alone!

Thanks guys! Any advice would be great!

[Jase88]

@usagisisa: If you're in a house, depending on your East and Southeast exposure, you'd likely require a pre-amped outdoor antenna. In Kitchener, it's easy to get digital signals from an antenna at your roofline.

A rotor is also required, as there is enough of a difference between Toronto and Hamilton/Buffalo to trip up most antenna.

[peano]

Update:

I installed a rotor on my mast and mounted a single 4228. I did it so I could aim the antenna while watching the signal strength. (The GF loses interest after about 3 minutes.)

I use dishpointer.com to get an idea where to aim because I can select my exact location and it draws a line on a google satellite image. I use a satellite that matches the Buffalo tower location. It also shows landmarks on the line.

At first I was very disappointed because The Buffalo stations were either non-existant or weak when I aimed at Buffalo. I decided to turn the 4228 towards Toronto to see how strong CBC would be. On the way the Buffalo stations all improved in signal strength significantly!

Now I am aimed approx. 15 degrees on the Toronto side of Buffalo and get all the Buffalo stations. WIVB, WNED and WKBW are rock solid. WGRZ and WUTV are subject to dropouts but watchable. I hope a couple feet higher will do the trick.

Why does aiming "away" from the towers improve signal strength?

[yoled3]

hi everyone,
First off, I am newbie to this forum and Ontario. I live in Guelph. Recently I tried two different digital tv tuners, connected to a 25DB or 50DB indoor antenna, but did not work. autoscan does not get any channels. it seems i need to buy an outdoor antenna, but do not know which size. do i need something else beside the tuner and antenna? my apartemnt faces south west, the maximum west side i can reach by sat dish is 97W. any help is appreciated.

[kooguy]

afternoonnap

Based on your TVfool results, those Toronto and Hamilton channels should be no problem for your location.

I was able to lock these US stations from 86 miles using CM4221HD so should be no problem for you as well assuming you have a good ATSC tuner and antenna height which does make a BIG difference!

17.x
29.x
7.x
23.x
2.x
4.x

My rough estimate for your location, you should be able to get at least over 15 digital channels.

The TVfool is just a guide, the actual result could be very surprising...

[Jase88]

@yoled3: How many floors up are you?