Fringe (Fox, A Channel) - Page 11 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

MarcP · 2009-09-22, 07:26 PM

There were 4 shots, not 6. 2 from the female FBI agent that hit the shape-shifter square in the back (you see the wounds), and 2 from Charlie. If the first two shots smack in the back did nothing at all to slow down the shape-shifter, one has to assume that at least one of Charlie's shots was the fatal one. So at the very least, you should see 3 bullet wounds. If I were that female agent, I'd be asking where Charlie shot it to take it down given that my first two shots were a bullseye and didn't have any effect.

oilblue · 2009-09-22, 07:54 PM

Yes, the shape-shifter was shot square in the back, but again, we don't *know* what the shape-shifter soldier is fully capable of. Just because a wound is there one minute, doesn't mean it's there a minute later. Why couldn't the shape-shifting happen on-the-fly to "heal" the wounds?

That said, certainly makes sense to ask "Charlie" where the fatal shot was placed...

Bigger question, aren't they short a corpse? As in, the real nurse, and the shape-shifted nurse.

Only way for them to relax as much as they did is if they ended up with two nurse bodies. Which means there were two shape-shifters. The dead shifter ("nurse"), and "Charlie":
- second soldier kills Charlie soon after the chase begins
- eventually, "Charlie" encounters the "nurse"...kills that soldier (has now failed twice)

Sort of left field, but I think it's the best fit.

MarcP · 2009-09-22, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Yes, the shape-shifter was shot square in the back, but again, we don't *know* what the shape-shifter soldier is fully capable of. Just because a wound is there one minute, doesn't mean it's there a minute later. Why couldn't the shape-shifting happen on-the-fly to "heal" the wounds?

It doesn't matter what the shape-shifter can't or can do. My comment is from the perspective of the FBI agents. They took 4 shots. Even if you don't know what the shape-shifter can or can't do, it's something worth checking to avoid being deceived because you know it can shape-shift. It can be any of the people around you. It's rather silly to not consider this possibility given all the crazy out-of-this-world stuff you've been already dealing with for a year.

asif9t9 · 2009-09-22, 11:22 PM

I'm with you MarcP. On shows like these, we do want to suspend reality, but these writers have lots of time to piece things together. They wanted us to see how fast shape shifting can happen (opening scene). They wanted us to see how shape-shifters could survive shots and jumping out a window and landing on their feet. And of course, in the end, they wanted to move the story forward with Charlie getting a new role (you knew something was up when they introduced the new female FBI agent).

In the first scene, they shouldn't have taken so long with the shape shifting. Remember how he wasted time squishing his skull. And they could have let the nurse escape in a simpler fashion where she wasn't shot and didn't have to jump out a window. Just introduce those abilities in a later episode.

Btw....the shape shifter gets into the room as the nurse (coincidentally a nurse Olivia knew), and decides to kill Olivia by strangling her with a wire? You'd think there would have been a quicker, quieter way to get it done.

rfielder · 2009-09-23, 09:12 AM

At least when he threw Charlie's body into the fire, it was without clothes. That kind of kills the idea that the shapeshifter's clothes also change.

However, doing a full wardrobe change, from female to male clothing, plus redressing the dead nurse in the time shown is pushing the willful suspense of disbelief into the territory of hallucination.....

oilblue · 2009-09-23, 12:29 PM

OK, I'll try again. If there's only the one nurse corpse, shouldn't that be more of a red flag than the count of bullet wounds? Not that wound count is something to gloss over completely. Just saying that if there's only the one nurse corpse and you're tracking down a shape-shifter, anyone on scene should be suspicious.

oilblue · 2009-09-23, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rfielder

However, doing a full wardrobe change, from female to male clothing, plus redressing the dead nurse in the time shown is pushing the willful suspense of disbelief into the territory of hallucination.....

That's another reason I think there's a second shape-shifting soldier. A sort of insurance policy in case the first one failed again. A second soldier not only avoids the whole wardrobe issue (could have killed Charlie earlier), it would leave two corpses for the most recent shifted victim the FBI is aware of (the real nurse, and the shifted nurse).

redzone · 2009-09-23, 12:49 PM

nowhere did they say they found the second nurse body. and since this guy is pretty skilled they might not have found it "yet" in the eyes of the FBI. but that fact that they didn't check his mouth was ridiculous...

like i said they wanted to get rid of the character. and this just gives them an interesting plot/ way of doing it

wprager · 2009-09-23, 02:56 PM

The point was that they *didn't* find the nurse's body. In the previous two killings the victim's body was left at the scene. Now he kills a nuse at a busy hospital, and they do not have two nurse's bodies (the real one, and the supposedly dead shapeshifter one).

If he had always gotten rid of his victims' bodies then that would be fine, but this wa not the case.

redzone · 2009-09-23, 03:07 PM

but before he did not know they were on to him. now that he was exposed the risk is increased and therfore the soldier would have to be more carefull

oilblue · 2009-09-23, 03:46 PM

^Huh? The soldier had no clue they were on to "him" until they barged into Olivia's room. Where was the chance to be more careful? A careful landing I suppose.

redzone · 2009-09-23, 04:01 PM

it wasn't completely shown where he killed / put the nurses body. like someone earlier said he might have just ran to where he hid the body to make it an easy escape goat.

oilblue · 2009-09-23, 04:19 PM

Yes, I agree that could be what happened (soldier ran to where the nurse's body was stashed). However, that doesn't explain why they let their guard down. Nor show that the soldier was being more careful...

Anyway, until they find both instances of the nurse, they're missing a dead body. Either they found both (and didn't bother showing us), or it's the biggest hole in the story. Much, much bigger than wound count.

edit:
So it's also possible there's a second soldier...that the first didn't know about...2nd killed Charlie and the 1st. At least that avoids the holes in the story.

redzone · 2009-09-23, 04:31 PM

i don't think theres a second soldier. that makes no sense at all, why would he have taken FBI guys body there?. the isn't THAT deep, especially as there was never mention of one or even a chirp that there could be.

Its pretty straight forward. we are to believe he led FBI guy to/or went and got dead nurses body. then killed FBI guy quietly and took his body and stashed it.

everything else gets a bit far fetched. even for this show

oilblue · 2009-09-23, 05:05 PM

^Seriously? There's one shape-shifter soldier in the story that we know about...but the concept of a second one is far fetched? Wow. By that logic, the FBI only has as many agents as we've already seen on the show.

Isn't it more far fetched to think there's only one soldier? And who exactly is "FBI guys body"?

Here's another attempt at this simple idea:
1. Charlie is killed by a second soldier during the chase (after the first soldier fails yet again). "Charlie2" joins the hunt for the shifted nurse/soldier (and knows how to kill it).
2. "Charlie2" encounters the nurse/first soldier (though the soldier thinks it's just Charlie). "Charlie2" kills the first soldier (which gives the FBI both nurse bodies--the real nurse and the shifted nurse). Without both, there's a huge problem...
3. "Charlie2" disposes of Charlie's body to cover his tracks and avoid suspicion

It's very, very simple. And it only depends on something that's already been introduced to the story--a shape-shifting soldier. Best part is that it takes care of all the loose ends and holes we've discussed. I could easily be wrong about the 2nd soldier. It's just an idea. That said, you're way off base saying it doesn't make sense at all, and that it's too far fetched.

Guess we'll find out in a couple days/weeks.

2009-09-22, 07:54 PM	#152
oilblue Veteran Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Edmonton Posts: 1,752	Yes, the shape-shifter was shot square in the back, but again, we don't know what the shape-shifter soldier is fully capable of. Just because a wound is there one minute, doesn't mean it's there a minute later. Why couldn't the shape-shifting happen on-the-fly to "heal" the wounds? That said, certainly makes sense to ask "Charlie" where the fatal shot was placed... Bigger question, aren't they short a corpse? As in, the real nurse, and the shape-shifted nurse. Only way for them to relax as much as they did is if they ended up with two nurse bodies. Which means there were two shape-shifters. The dead shifter ("nurse"), and "Charlie": - second soldier kills Charlie soon after the chase begins - eventually, "Charlie" encounters the "nurse"...kills that soldier (has now failed twice) Sort of left field, but I think it's the best fit. Last edited by oilblue; 2009-09-22 at 07:55 PM. Reason: typo

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

2009-09-22, 07:26 PM	#151
MarcP Veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Airdrie, AB Posts: 3,814	There were 4 shots, not 6. 2 from the female FBI agent that hit the shape-shifter square in the back (you see the wounds), and 2 from Charlie. If the first two shots smack in the back did nothing at all to slow down the shape-shifter, one has to assume that at least one of Charlie's shots was the fatal one. So at the very least, you should see 3 bullet wounds. If I were that female agent, I'd be asking where Charlie shot it to take it down given that my first two shots were a bullseye and didn't have any effect.

2009-09-22, 11:22 PM	#154
asif9t9 Veteran Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Oakville, Cogeco Posts: 2,974	I'm with you MarcP. On shows like these, we do want to suspend reality, but these writers have lots of time to piece things together. They wanted us to see how fast shape shifting can happen (opening scene). They wanted us to see how shape-shifters could survive shots and jumping out a window and landing on their feet. And of course, in the end, they wanted to move the story forward with Charlie getting a new role (you knew something was up when they introduced the new female FBI agent). In the first scene, they shouldn't have taken so long with the shape shifting. Remember how he wasted time squishing his skull. And they could have let the nurse escape in a simpler fashion where she wasn't shot and didn't have to jump out a window. Just introduce those abilities in a later episode. Btw....the shape shifter gets into the room as the nurse (coincidentally a nurse Olivia knew), and decides to kill Olivia by strangling her with a wire? You'd think there would have been a quicker, quieter way to get it done.

2009-09-23, 09:12 AM	#155
rfielder Veteran Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Brampton, Ontario Posts: 1,515	At least when he threw Charlie's body into the fire, it was without clothes. That kind of kills the idea that the shapeshifter's clothes also change. However, doing a full wardrobe change, from female to male clothing, plus redressing the dead nurse in the time shown is pushing the willful suspense of disbelief into the territory of hallucination.....

2009-09-23, 12:29 PM	#156
oilblue Veteran Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Edmonton Posts: 1,752	OK, I'll try again. If there's only the one nurse corpse, shouldn't that be more of a red flag than the count of bullet wounds? Not that wound count is something to gloss over completely. Just saying that if there's only the one nurse corpse and you're tracking down a shape-shifter, anyone on scene should be suspicious.

2009-09-23, 12:49 PM	#158
redzone Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,027	nowhere did they say they found the second nurse body. and since this guy is pretty skilled they might not have found it "yet" in the eyes of the FBI. but that fact that they didn't check his mouth was ridiculous... like i said they wanted to get rid of the character. and this just gives them an interesting plot/ way of doing it

2009-09-23, 02:56 PM	#159
wprager Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Kanata, ON, Rogers Digital, 8300-HD Posts: 1,415	The point was that they didn't find the nurse's body. In the previous two killings the victim's body was left at the scene. Now he kills a nuse at a busy hospital, and they do not have two nurse's bodies (the real one, and the supposedly dead shapeshifter one). If he had always gotten rid of his victims' bodies then that would be fine, but this wa not the case.

2009-09-23, 03:07 PM	#160
redzone Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,027	but before he did not know they were on to him. now that he was exposed the risk is increased and therfore the soldier would have to be more carefull

2009-09-23, 03:46 PM	#161
oilblue Veteran Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Edmonton Posts: 1,752	^Huh? The soldier had no clue they were on to "him" until they barged into Olivia's room. Where was the chance to be more careful? A careful landing I suppose.

2009-09-23, 04:01 PM	#162
redzone Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,027	it wasn't completely shown where he killed / put the nurses body. like someone earlier said he might have just ran to where he hid the body to make it an easy escape goat.

2009-09-23, 04:19 PM	#163
oilblue Veteran Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Edmonton Posts: 1,752	Yes, I agree that could be what happened (soldier ran to where the nurse's body was stashed). However, that doesn't explain why they let their guard down. Nor show that the soldier was being more careful... Anyway, until they find both instances of the nurse, they're missing a dead body. Either they found both (and didn't bother showing us), or it's the biggest hole in the story. Much, much bigger than wound count. edit: So it's also possible there's a second soldier...that the first didn't know about...2nd killed Charlie and the 1st. At least that avoids the holes in the story.

2009-09-23, 04:31 PM	#164
redzone Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,027	i don't think theres a second soldier. that makes no sense at all, why would he have taken FBI guys body there?. the isn't THAT deep, especially as there was never mention of one or even a chirp that there could be. Its pretty straight forward. we are to believe he led FBI guy to/or went and got dead nurses body. then killed FBI guy quietly and took his body and stashed it. everything else gets a bit far fetched. even for this show

2009-09-23, 05:05 PM	#165
oilblue Veteran Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Edmonton Posts: 1,752	^Seriously? There's one shape-shifter soldier in the story that we know about...but the concept of a second one is far fetched? Wow. By that logic, the FBI only has as many agents as we've already seen on the show. Isn't it more far fetched to think there's only one soldier? And who exactly is "FBI guys body"? Here's another attempt at this simple idea: 1. Charlie is killed by a second soldier during the chase (after the first soldier fails yet again). "Charlie2" joins the hunt for the shifted nurse/soldier (and knows how to kill it). 2. "Charlie2" encounters the nurse/first soldier (though the soldier thinks it's just Charlie). "Charlie2" kills the first soldier (which gives the FBI both nurse bodies--the real nurse and the shifted nurse). Without both, there's a huge problem... 3. "Charlie2" disposes of Charlie's body to cover his tracks and avoid suspicion It's very, very simple. And it only depends on something that's already been introduced to the story--a shape-shifting soldier. Best part is that it takes care of all the loose ends and holes we've discussed. I could easily be wrong about the 2nd soldier. It's just an idea. That said, you're way off base saying it doesn't make sense at all, and that it's too far fetched. Guess we'll find out in a couple days/weeks.