New Star Choice 530 Firmware - HDCP, CGMS-A, Overscan, Etc.

[CanaDawg]

Sony KFE42A10 here and a 505. DVI->HDMI works fine. On F6. Surprised your 50 isn't handling it.

[57]

He probably had the issue due to two HD connections (CV & HDMI). If there were only one (as he found out when he disconnected the DVI/HDMI) then all would be fine.

[cdnman1]

I was talking to StarChoice technical support today and I was told that the DVR530 issue with HDMI (HDCP)and home theatre receivers is a hardware issue with the satellite receiver.

They will be introducing a new DVR as soon as they can to correct the issue. He does not know how they will deal with affected owners of the DVR530.

Apparently they didn't know about the issue when they released F4. After 10,000 receivers received the F4 firmware they stopped the update after learning of the issue. F6 is the same as F4. No firmware however will be able to correct the HDCP issue. He also knew about the HDMI switch work around although he is not supposed to suggest it.

I told him that the DVR530 is the most expensive DVR on the market and this was unacceptable. The guy was very nice and very contrite. He was very knowledgeable on the issue. There was no point in giving him a hard time. I asked him to document my complaint

Lucky for me my Onkyo TX-SR606 will up convert component to HDMI so I don't have to re-cable to my TV. The big downside is that I must always have my home theatre receiver on so it can do the conversion.

Oh, by the way, today I received my third DVR530. This time the hard drive quit. They replaced it for free again. Good service by StarChoice -poor quality hardware form Motorola.

[HDTV101]

HDCP is a total joke that you can thank the boys in Hollywood for. It’s causing honest & hard working legitimate people nothing but problems. You’ve invested 1000’s of dollars in your home theatre setup and now this HDCP crap is leaving you with a black screen and forcing you back to using analog component inputs because the digital HDMI no longer works thanks to HDCP.

The real kicker is that the hardcore video pirates already have HDCP cracked and can strip it out using a HDCP stripper. So really the intended target to stop (The Pirates) are still watching TV while we all suffer from Hollywood’s HDCP stupidity.

[FunkyTown]

Very well said HDTV101. I fully agree with that. Hackers are always going to find a way around this stuff. I mean the codes they are using can't be a big secret considering the number of companies that would need to know how to access the encryption on the tvs they are building.

Any product that removes the ability to watch tv that you are legally trying to watch is utter stupidity.

[jchbfj]

I'm having the same problem with a Yamaha HTR-6180.

I've sent emails to Star Choice (Ask Jim), Yamaha, DCP Ltd. (the company that licenses HDCP), and the CRTC.

I called Star Choice, and the guy blamed my TV, my AVR, and the HDCP standard itself -- anything but their software update. He also claimed that other satellite and digital cable providers are having the same problem. Is there any truth to this? I googled for "expressvu hdcp" and it looks like they experienced and fixed this problem in mid-2006. So is it possible that Star Choice had over two years advance notice of this problem?

As a Star Choice customer, I have lived with the glacier-slow channel rollouts, the tired, outdated hardware and the prospect of never being able to afford a DVR receiver. It's the excellent picture quality and the prompt, friendly and helpful service that has kept me as a customer all these years. But this latest incident - a forced video quality downgrade - may finally put it over the top, and make me give ExpressVu a call. Especially after waiting 42 minutes to speak with tech support... Star Choice doesn't really have much to offer me any more. Sure, ExpressVu is expensive, they treat you like a criminal, and their call centres are in India, but at least their service and their hardware work as advertised.

To use a metaphor from South Park (Comedy Network, ch. 548), it has come down to being a choice between a douche and a turd sandwich.

[localnet]

Well, I went down to the man cave this morning, turned on *C and a big fat nothing! HDPC flashing on the front of the DSR505. So, I figured it must be a cable, hmmm?

Switched DVI-HDMI cable and nothing?

Hmmmm? First thought is something happened to my Denon? Nope, swapped around cables, etc., Denon working fine. Just no signal from *C. Bunch of resets and an hour later... Did a Google search and wound up here.

Well, I found the post regarding the switch, it did not work. And I do not have an HDMI cable long enough to get to the TV, so component it is. The picture is not as good, especially on the SD channels. What a crock!

Here is my gear for reference that will not function with the DSR505 connected with the DVI-HDMI cable.

Denon AVR 4308ci (with latest firmware update, I did that too)
Oppo HM-31 HDMI switch

Mike

[57]

Originally Posted by jchbfj

...other satellite and digital cable providers are having the same problem. Is there any truth to this?

Although Rogers and Shaw had the issue years ago when HDMI was very new, as were HDMI AVRs, the situation was rectified long ago (Rogers solved it over 2 years ago). See the link in post 1 of this thread.

There is no excuse for this situation at *C.

I'm not sure that BTV has actually enabled HDCP yet.

[jchbfj]

Here's the response I received from Ask Jim:
--------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Jake,

We apologize for the trouble that you have had with our recent HDCP-related update. We assure you that there is not a glitch in our software to cause the compliance issues. If you are able to get your video through the DVI-HDMI cable when running directly to the TV, then your TV is definitely HDCP compliant. The issue is that the newest HDCP requirements do not allow for AV receivers to retransmit the video signal to the TV. You will be able to get your full quality picture by directly connecting this cable from the receiver to the TV.

Component connections, as you have noted, bypass the issue of HDCP compliance. The picture quality difference has been measured to be not more than 2%. This is normally not perceptible to the human eye, though some people are more perceptive than others. If you do notice the difference in quality, we recommend that you connect directly from your satellite receiver to your TV with DVI-HDMI.

Again, we apologize for the inconvenience, but this software update complies with the newest industry standards for HDCP and was a necessary update.

Should you have any further questions or concerns, please contact us.

Thank you for choosing Star Choice,
Trevor K
Ask Jim Team
Star Choice Communications Inc.

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And here was my reply:
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I would hope that Star Choice, and other companies that are being made to look bad as a result of this HDCP nonsense, will fight on behalf of their customers for better compatibility. Or possibly to remove HDCP until the standard is working properly.

To suggest that customers can no longer use DVI/HDMI with an AV receiver seems to be a massive oversight with this technology.

It's like if Toyota replaced the engine in your car with something much less powerful. You ask why, and they tell you, "that last engine was too powerful, and you could have used it to outrun police. So this is for your own good."

99% of people aren't going to be interested in outrunning police. They just want a good car. But the downgrade affects everyone. Meanwhile a criminal could just go steal a car with a different engine.


If somebody really wants to circumvent this copy protection to record television, you can buy an HDCP stripper on the internet that will allow them to do that quite easily. The only people this is affecting are high-paying customers who simply want to watch TV.

If the company licensing HDCP to Star Choice (or Motorola?) continue to claim that this is how it's going to be, perhaps Star Choice should launch a lawsuit? If not, I believe there's a very good chance that this may be the next course of action for your customers.

Regards,
Jake

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[localnet]

That is all I want to do, watch tv. What is wrong with these guys, our AVRs are not compliant? I have a brand new, just firmware upgraded, bazzilion dollar Denon AVR! And *C is telling me their 3 or 4 year old DSR505 is ahead of the curve?

Sounds like they screwed up and are blaming the customer.

I call BS!

And I am getting audio drop outs now to boot!

Mike

[QCK]

FYI, I complained as well, and also asked about the possibility of new receivers coming out and this was my answer from the "Technical Escalation Desk":

We are definitely developing receivers with an HDMI output. Star Choice and Motorola are still working together on the design stage. They have HDMI receivers on the market with other service providers in the States and Europe so it shouldn’t be a huge job for us to finish the product. As to a time-line, I wouldn’t be able to tell you when, just that we’re for sure coming out with one as soon as it is ready.

As to what the receivers will cost, I don’t have that information although we do realize the inconvenience this has put some of our customers through.

[MiB]

Following my previous post and 57's suggestion to try using component cables, I spent some time on the family room AV Saturday morning.

Hooked up component cables from the DSR-505 to the Yamaha RX-V3800. As expected it does work, but the picture quality is most certainly a step back to 2007. It's not nearly as good as DVI.

My wife was happy we had TV working in the family room again, although she did ask why the picture wasn't as sharp on HD channels as it was before.
I explained the whole analog vs digital cables thing, but her eyes just glazed over so I finished wiring everything up, put my tools away and went off to work on other week-end projects around the house.

Later that afternoon she was watching Braveheart on A&E HD. She called me over to tell me the audio kept dropping out every 5-10 minutes. I unplugged the power to the DSR505 and reset it. It came back on and had the DVI repeater msg on screen. WTF ? Then I remembered I still had the DVI cable plugged into the back of the AVR. Although I had disabled the HDMI port, the 505 must have still detected it was connected. I unplugged it and then reset the 505. No DVI msg this time, but the audio dropouts were still there. I called *C, but after 45 mins on hold I just gave up.

We've been with *C for a very long time, during which I've never really asked them for anything and always paid my invoice within a few days of receiving it.

Our HDCP PS3, Toshiba HD DVD, Xbox360 are all switched thru the also HDCP compliant Yamaha AVR and work just fine. Using the AVR to automatically switch video and audio sources is what the unit was intended for.

I can't respect *C for lying to their customers and blaming the AVRs or HDCP. The problem is with *C's receivers and their current HDCP implementation, not the customer's equipment.

Paying them $1200 a year for this nonsense, my patience is wearing extremely thin. After reading this most of this thread, I suspect many other's are as well.

[FunkyTown]

Sony makes the PS3. Starchoice would be better off hiring Sony to make their next box. Their business would be so much better if they were NOT married to Motorola. Motorola had enough time to prove what they could do and they failed miserably. Get rid of them. As far as decrypting goes, get motorola to design a decryption box that will be used to control the signal, but very separate from the PVR. This box would then hook into the Sony PVR. After all, Sony did invent beta and the first VCR in the early 70s. Rewind and FF never worked on the Motorola, and it's been bug after bug and machine replacements. How can Starchoice be making any profit with this garbage equipment? I hope they don't make additional bad choices. Unless of course they want to file bankruptcy and close their doors.

[scrooloose]

Starchoice is lucky to find anyone willing to make the few boxes that they will sell. There are no other customers for this equipment, even potential ones.

-Mike

[ard]

Originally Posted by localnet

Well, I went down to the man cave this morning, turned on *C and a big fat nothing! HDPC flashing on the front of the DSR505. So, I figured it must be a cable, hmmm?

Switched DVI-HDMI cable and nothing?

Hmmmm? First thought is something happened to my Denon? Nope, swapped around cables, etc., Denon working fine. Just no signal from *C. Bunch of resets and an hour later... Did a Google search and wound up here.

Well, I found the post regarding the switch, it did not work. And I do not have an HDMI cable long enough to get to the TV, so component it is. The picture is not as good, especially on the SD channels. What a crock!

Here is my gear for reference that will not function with the DSR505 connected with the DVI-HDMI cable.

Denon AVR 4308ci (with latest firmware update, I did that too)
Oppo HM-31 HDMI switch

Mike

Mike, my HDMI switch works fine. It completely bypasses the "AVR' sending the signal from the DVI/HDMI cable on the starchoice receiver to my projector via a 30 foot HDMI cable. My switch is a no-name box that cost me $50 with a remote. I am not sure why your Oppo switch won't work unless it contains a repeater to amplify signal or it is not hooked up in a direct path.
Andrew