Dizzying options... - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

ikrazy · 2008-08-26, 11:06 AM

So, I picked up a nice big 50 inch 1080p plasma a while back and the only thing I've been taking advantage of it for is component output on my 360. Ideally i'd like to upgrade my set up to include Either a PS3 or a BLu-Ray player, a cable/sat HD receiver as well as a nice 5.1 (or 7.1) sound set up with a decent A/V Receiver.

I've poked around at some of the threads here (notably the 2007/2008 threads) but I'm not up on all the ins and outs. Wondering if anyone had some suggestions. I was looking at some of the options but I'm not sure if I'm just looking at the wrong models. What I'd like to find is an A/V receiver that does HD audio, has 2, but preferably 3 HDMI ins (eventually I'd want to have TV/360 and BR or PS3 all hooked up so that I can be lazy and not have to change cables.

)

Now when I look at some models they indicate they upconvert signals to 1080i. Do receivers that upconvert to 1080p exist? Is it just really higher end models that do it? I don't want to totally cheap out, but I'd prefer to stay more in the 500-750 range but am a little flexible if it means getting everything I want. I mean, I still have to buy speakers. Not sure if what I want is doable in that range? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

57 · 2008-08-26, 11:52 AM

Have a look at the following posts which have some answers to some of your various questions:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=87543 On upconversion:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=76082 AVR "checklist"

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=57741 Info for those new to the forum.

Slew · 2008-08-26, 11:54 AM

Continue to read on this and other forums to educate yourself about AVR's and other components. In your price range and with your basic list of needs I think you should consider the Pioneer VSX-1018, the Onkyo TXSR606 and the Denon AVR-789 (same as AVR-1909). These all have 3 HDMI inputs, decode the newer HD audio tracks and will handle your AV needs for several years to come. You may also want to investigate your BD options some more. The PS3 for example, is a really good BD player and it does not require an AVR that can decode those HD tracks if connected via PCM. Hold off on your purchases until you really understand this stuff and know what you need.

Jam · 2008-08-26, 01:37 PM

I'm very happy with my Yamaha 6160, which has all the functions you mentioned the only exception being it has 2 HDMI inputs. I have a similar setup to what you are considering and personally I couldn't justify the jump in price for a 3rd HDMI input when my cable/satellite HD box isn't able to take full advantage of HDMI anyways (equal, possibly even better results, are achieved using component + optical for television broadcast). Everything is hooked up to the reciever, one HDMI connection to the TV, easy!

ikrazy · 2008-08-27, 10:20 AM

Thanks for the suggestions on receivers. I'm totally comfortable waiting before making a purchase. (I took about 8 months to pick up my plasma because I decided on what I wanted and what I wanted to pay). I'm aware the PS3 is a decent BR player, its a one or the other option. Basically I know I want a BluRay player, and assuming between now and the time I purchase nothing changes, I'd be silly to not spend the extra 50 or so on the Ps3 over a BluRay player.

Are the Denon 789/1909 actually avaialble at retail in Canada? What is confusing me with them, is they have the exact same feature sets, but are slightly different in MSRP. I'm sure there's a difference, but it's not readily appreI poked around some sites and see the previous years models still being listed. I think the Onkyo gets a pass from me because of the 1080i upscale limit. I mean, I have a 1080p screen, so I might as well take advantage of it as best I can. The Yamaha looks like a good fit too. My logic on prefering the third HDMI, is on the off chance during the life of the product I do end up with Satelite/Cable receiver that processes 1080p signals I could integrate it into the existing set up. But maybe I'm trying to hedge my bets too much.

At any rate, I can see from the receivers listed that 1080p upconverting does exist in my range, they just don't state explicitly in most of the specs I was looking at that it was 1080p. (Onkyo does specify 1080i, which is one of the things that was throwing me off).

Your help is appreciated.

lgplasma · 2008-08-27, 11:07 AM

The 789 is the same as the 1909 except for the second remote control (with the 1909). My local dealer has told me he has the 1909 in stock now (for MSRP

). Places like FS and Best Buy sell the 789.

I wouldn't place too much emphasis on the 1080p upscaling as, in this price range, the onboard upscalers of the AVRs are probably worse than the one in your TV. Even my 3808ci gets poor marks for 1080p upscaling. You need to move nearer the $2000 mark to get a better upscaler although the newer mid-range Onkyos appear to have them.

The thing that sold me on the Denons was the Audyssey Dynamic Volume and Dynamic EQ. This adjusts both the volume level and the tone constantly to give a much more even viewing experience. Great when watching TV (particularly FOX). The 3808 will receive these as an upgrade ($) in October. The 1909/789 has them out of the box.

cooper83 · 2008-08-27, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jam

I'm very happy with my Yamaha 6160, which has all the functions you mentioned the only exception being it has 2 HDMI inputs. I have a similar setup to what you are considering and personally I couldn't justify the jump in price for a 3rd HDMI input when my cable/satellite HD box isn't able to take full advantage of HDMI anyways (equal, possibly even better results, are achieved using component + optical for television broadcast). Everything is hooked up to the reciever, one HDMI connection to the TV, easy!

Couldn't agree more! I love mine and would recommend it to anyone looking for a new A/V receiver.

Toolatecrew · 2008-08-27, 04:31 PM

Agree with LG unless !Your TV has a total crap scaler and 2. You have a lot of SD sources that need to be upscaled (VCR Cable box) the upscaling feature of any reciver in that price range is mostly just marketing hype. I have a 3808 and I have the internal scaler turned OFF. I let signals pass through. My A3 does the upscaling fro DVD. I tried having the 3808 scale SD TV and it looked worse than letting my Epson projector do it. HDTV, HD DVD and BR don't need scaling so unless you meet one of the 2 criteria above I'd would give upscaling in the AVR 0 consideration.

As for HDMI inputs 1080p TV is higly unlikley in the near future. It is simply too bandwidth intensive. All HD is either 1080i or more likley 720 P so component cables will be just fine if needed. They don't do uncompressed soundtracks for HD TV so coax optical is fine for sound from the Cable box.

So there you have it your choices were just simplified.

There are plenty of good avers with 2 HDMI inputs and since upscaling is not relevant you can freely shoose one based on feature set, power sound quality.

All reviews and tests indicate PS3 is not a decent BR player. Its a very good BR player. Just my opinion but in your budget type I think it would be an absolute shame to spend $399 or so on any other BR player. Even if you don't care about games (which you obviously do) the PS3 is alost the most upgradable BR player out there as well as a media center.

No need to spend more than 500-700 for an AVR. WHat is your speaker SUB budget. If you have to shave a few $ somewhere its IMO better to get a $500 AVR and a $2000 spearker package than a 700 AVR and an 1800 speaker package. You will likley keep the speakers for a long time while AVRs go out of style very quickly.

ikrazy · 2008-08-28, 10:48 AM

A whole lot of great input. Again, many thanks.

Simplifying the selection of the AVR with the reality that 2 HDMI connections are likely all that will be needed does help. Realistically, I do have a VCR but I rarely use it, so I don't exactly have a wealth of SD sources I need upscaled. That leads me to sleect more based on the feature set, which has me eyeing the Yamaha 6160 (more budget friendly) or Denon AVR789.

I hadn't put a lot of thought into the speakers yet. I like to take things one step at a time. It's easier to get confused if I am trying to figure out three things at once! Plus as I understand it when I pick out my speakers I'm going to need to be hearing them to get a good feel for what I want. (Have to make the ears happy, not just the wallet

)

2008-08-26, 11:06 AM	#1
ikrazy Rookie Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3	Dizzying options... So, I picked up a nice big 50 inch 1080p plasma a while back and the only thing I've been taking advantage of it for is component output on my 360. Ideally i'd like to upgrade my set up to include Either a PS3 or a BLu-Ray player, a cable/sat HD receiver as well as a nice 5.1 (or 7.1) sound set up with a decent A/V Receiver. I've poked around at some of the threads here (notably the 2007/2008 threads) but I'm not up on all the ins and outs. Wondering if anyone had some suggestions. I was looking at some of the options but I'm not sure if I'm just looking at the wrong models. What I'd like to find is an A/V receiver that does HD audio, has 2, but preferably 3 HDMI ins (eventually I'd want to have TV/360 and BR or PS3 all hooked up so that I can be lazy and not have to change cables. ) Now when I look at some models they indicate they upconvert signals to 1080i. Do receivers that upconvert to 1080p exist? Is it just really higher end models that do it? I don't want to totally cheap out, but I'd prefer to stay more in the 500-750 range but am a little flexible if it means getting everything I want. I mean, I still have to buy speakers. Not sure if what I want is doable in that range? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

2008-08-26, 11:52 AM	#2
57 Moderator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto, Rogers, 8300HD, eHDD, Panasonic TCP65S1, Denon AVR4310Ci; 8300HD, eHDD & Sony KDL40W3000 Posts: 50,347	Have a look at the following posts which have some answers to some of your various questions: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=87543 On upconversion: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=76082 AVR "checklist" http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=57741 Info for those new to the forum. __________________ 57's Home Theatre (Latest equipment & photos) 57's Optimization Services (Home Theatre Optimization)

2008-08-27, 04:31 PM	#8
Toolatecrew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Dartmouth NS Posts: 520	Agree with LG unless !Your TV has a total crap scaler and 2. You have a lot of SD sources that need to be upscaled (VCR Cable box) the upscaling feature of any reciver in that price range is mostly just marketing hype. I have a 3808 and I have the internal scaler turned OFF. I let signals pass through. My A3 does the upscaling fro DVD. I tried having the 3808 scale SD TV and it looked worse than letting my Epson projector do it. HDTV, HD DVD and BR don't need scaling so unless you meet one of the 2 criteria above I'd would give upscaling in the AVR 0 consideration. As for HDMI inputs 1080p TV is higly unlikley in the near future. It is simply too bandwidth intensive. All HD is either 1080i or more likley 720 P so component cables will be just fine if needed. They don't do uncompressed soundtracks for HD TV so coax optical is fine for sound from the Cable box. So there you have it your choices were just simplified. There are plenty of good avers with 2 HDMI inputs and since upscaling is not relevant you can freely shoose one based on feature set, power sound quality. All reviews and tests indicate PS3 is not a decent BR player. Its a very good BR player. Just my opinion but in your budget type I think it would be an absolute shame to spend $399 or so on any other BR player. Even if you don't care about games (which you obviously do) the PS3 is alost the most upgradable BR player out there as well as a media center. No need to spend more than 500-700 for an AVR. WHat is your speaker SUB budget. If you have to shave a few $ somewhere its IMO better to get a $500 AVR and a $2000 spearker package than a 700 AVR and an 1800 speaker package. You will likley keep the speakers for a long time while AVRs go out of style very quickly. __________________ Denon 3808, Paradigm Monitor 7 C370 Mini v3 Funky Waves Fw 15.1 SonyPS3, HD-A3,HD PVR, Slingbox, Epson HC 720 92" screen

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2008-08-26, 11:54 AM	#3
Slew Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 59	Continue to read on this and other forums to educate yourself about AVR's and other components. In your price range and with your basic list of needs I think you should consider the Pioneer VSX-1018, the Onkyo TXSR606 and the Denon AVR-789 (same as AVR-1909). These all have 3 HDMI inputs, decode the newer HD audio tracks and will handle your AV needs for several years to come. You may also want to investigate your BD options some more. The PS3 for example, is a really good BD player and it does not require an AVR that can decode those HD tracks if connected via PCM. Hold off on your purchases until you really understand this stuff and know what you need.

2008-08-26, 01:37 PM	#4
Jam Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Burlington Posts: 120	I'm very happy with my Yamaha 6160, which has all the functions you mentioned the only exception being it has 2 HDMI inputs. I have a similar setup to what you are considering and personally I couldn't justify the jump in price for a 3rd HDMI input when my cable/satellite HD box isn't able to take full advantage of HDMI anyways (equal, possibly even better results, are achieved using component + optical for television broadcast). Everything is hooked up to the reciever, one HDMI connection to the TV, easy!

2008-08-27, 10:20 AM	#5
ikrazy Rookie Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3	Thanks for the suggestions on receivers. I'm totally comfortable waiting before making a purchase. (I took about 8 months to pick up my plasma because I decided on what I wanted and what I wanted to pay). I'm aware the PS3 is a decent BR player, its a one or the other option. Basically I know I want a BluRay player, and assuming between now and the time I purchase nothing changes, I'd be silly to not spend the extra 50 or so on the Ps3 over a BluRay player. Are the Denon 789/1909 actually avaialble at retail in Canada? What is confusing me with them, is they have the exact same feature sets, but are slightly different in MSRP. I'm sure there's a difference, but it's not readily appreI poked around some sites and see the previous years models still being listed. I think the Onkyo gets a pass from me because of the 1080i upscale limit. I mean, I have a 1080p screen, so I might as well take advantage of it as best I can. The Yamaha looks like a good fit too. My logic on prefering the third HDMI, is on the off chance during the life of the product I do end up with Satelite/Cable receiver that processes 1080p signals I could integrate it into the existing set up. But maybe I'm trying to hedge my bets too much. At any rate, I can see from the receivers listed that 1080p upconverting does exist in my range, they just don't state explicitly in most of the specs I was looking at that it was 1080p. (Onkyo does specify 1080i, which is one of the things that was throwing me off). Your help is appreciated.

2008-08-27, 11:07 AM	#6
lgplasma Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: North of Nanaimo Posts: 433	The 789 is the same as the 1909 except for the second remote control (with the 1909). My local dealer has told me he has the 1909 in stock now (for MSRP ). Places like FS and Best Buy sell the 789. I wouldn't place too much emphasis on the 1080p upscaling as, in this price range, the onboard upscalers of the AVRs are probably worse than the one in your TV. Even my 3808ci gets poor marks for 1080p upscaling. You need to move nearer the $2000 mark to get a better upscaler although the newer mid-range Onkyos appear to have them. The thing that sold me on the Denons was the Audyssey Dynamic Volume and Dynamic EQ. This adjusts both the volume level and the tone constantly to give a much more even viewing experience. Great when watching TV (particularly FOX). The 3808 will receive these as an upgrade ($) in October. The 1909/789 has them out of the box.

2008-08-28, 10:48 AM	#9
ikrazy Rookie Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3	A whole lot of great input. Again, many thanks. Simplifying the selection of the AVR with the reality that 2 HDMI connections are likely all that will be needed does help. Realistically, I do have a VCR but I rarely use it, so I don't exactly have a wealth of SD sources I need upscaled. That leads me to sleect more based on the feature set, which has me eyeing the Yamaha 6160 (more budget friendly) or Denon AVR789. I hadn't put a lot of thought into the speakers yet. I like to take things one step at a time. It's easier to get confused if I am trying to figure out three things at once! Plus as I understand it when I pick out my speakers I'm going to need to be hearing them to get a good feel for what I want. (Have to make the ears happy, not just the wallet )