Charges for unlisted numbers

[JimSmith]

Here's a copy of an email conversation I had with Aliant customer service. I'm guessing that most folks don't know they're being grossly overcharged for this particular service. I got around it but having my name put in the phone book as Jim Smith (obviously not my real name). I would have paid the $2.00 a month if they had offer me that option (they still haven't). Their customer service is abysmal. I'm going to try again in a few weeks to see if they're still keeping the cheaper rate a secret.

Start from the bottom and work your way up.

Hello Mr. ,

Firstly I want to take a few moments to apologize to you, for taking so long in replying with this information as the Product Manager was away on vacation. What should have been offered to you at the time was a limited non-published service as an alternative to the non-published service. The limited non-published is $2.00 per month (it does not have the automated per line blocking) however it does keep the listing out of the directory and out of directory assistance. You are absolutely correct in your point below about we are required to offer this service and we do.

We would like to apologize to you that the limited non-published service was not offered to you as most of our customer choose the non-published service. The differences between the two should have been explained and recommendation provided that limited non-published would have covered your requirement to keep your number out of the directory. Limited non-published is a current capability that we have and it is a more cost effective alternative than non-published for what you wanted to achieve.

Limited non-published will still ensure the phone number is kept as confidential and not distributed on directory files for phone book print distribution. The number is also not available from directory assistance so any calls that operators handle from people looking for someone that choose not to have their number in the book, operators would not be able to provide a number and would advise any callers that they do not have a published listing.

Thank you for raising the concern, as we will be taking action internally to make sure that each of our Representatives will be reminded of the limited non-published service being available and in certain situations our customers may not require the complete per line blocking (non-published) and we can offer this as an alternative which is a more cost effective rate for our customers.

Thank you for taking the time to share your opinion with us on this issue.

Again, please accept our sincere apologies for any inconvenience this matter may have caused you.

Sincerely,


Customer Solution Agent


________________________________________
From:
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 9:00 AM
To: Customer Solutions Center
Subject: RE: Aliant Non-Published Number(waiting for Debbie Jean to give a reply)

,

It’s now been two weeks since I last contacted you with regard to this matter and several weeks since I first asked for information. Perhaps there is someone else in your department I could talk to. You mentioned a Product Manager, can you provide me with contact information for this individual?



From: Customer Solutions Center
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 1:33 PM
To:
Subject: RE: Aliant Non-Published Number

Hello Mr,

Thank you for contacting Aliant. I do apologize for not getting back to you sooner on your questions in regards to the Non-published number. I have been waiting for additional information from our Product Manager in regards to this. I will be contacting the Product Manager directly to get some answers to your questions.

Thank you and have a good day!

Line
Customer Solution Agent

________________________________________
From:
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 2:47 PM
To: Customer Solutions Center

Subject: FW: Aliant Non-Published Number

It’s been more than 3 weeks since I sent this email and I’m still waiting for a response. I spent about 20 minutes online at lunch today and am able to provide you with some information that may help you to answer my original questions.

Please see section on unlisted numbers at:
http://www.piac.ca/telecom/initial_p...ill_of_rights/
and in Quebec: (http://www.crtc.gc.ca/archive/ENG/De...2002-43.htm#62)
“In Telecom Order CRTC 98-109, 4 February 1998 (Order 98-109), the Commission concluded that increased availability of listing information, combined with other sources, posed a threat to personal privacy for residential subscribers and capped the rate for Unlisted Number Service for residential subscribers for the other large ILECs at $2.00 per month.”
And in Telecom Decision CRTC 2006-15 (http://www.crtc.gc.ca/archive/ENG/De.../dt2006-15.htm ) paragraphs 402 and 405 state that Incumbents
”Must provide unlisted number at a rate not exceeding $2.00 per month for residential consumers (paragraphs 402 and 405)”

Here is what other telecoms charge for the same “service”:
Primus - $1.25 (http://www.ican.net/en/residential/t...itedBundle.htm)
Rogers – $1.25/month (according to 1 977 326 2232)
Eastlink - $2.50/month (according to 452-2800)




From: ]
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 2:52 PM
To: 'Customer Solutions Center'
Subject: RE: Aliant Non-Published Number

,

Your response to my complaint about there being a charge for a non-published telephone number was that there is a charge for a non-published telephone number? That’s it? I complain about one of your policies and you address it by confirming the policy exists? Surely I am aware of a policy I’ve complained about. You charge a little over $25.00 a month for home phone service, a service I am sure has many costs associated with it. Aliant would have to staff clerks to process billings, answer questions and log trouble calls and technicians to install and repair the home equipment not to mention maintaining infrastructure, marketing, and I’m sure many other cost I am unaware of. Compare that $25.00 to the $6.00 you charge for what exactly? An additional 24% to NOT provide a service. You said there was a “monthly cost associated with it” but you didn’t clarify if that was a monthly cost Aliant incurred and passed on to the customer (with a reasonable mark-up) or if the “monthly cost” you referenced was just what a customer had to pay if you wanted your number unlisted. If there is a monthly cost incurred by Aliant what extra service do you provide people who want an unlisted phone number? The phone book only comes out once a year! Surely any data processing to keep the number unlisted only needs to be done once and not monthly? I am very curious to know what service I would be purchasing for my $6.00 a month.



From: Customer Solutions Center
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 2:02 PM
To:
Subject: Aliant Non-Published Number

Hello Mr. ,

Thank you for your email. We would like to thank you for providing your feedback on the experience you had with our company. Aliant strives to provide great customer service. Please accept our sincere apologies. Although we are unable to change the experience you had.

Unfortunately, a Non-Published listing is a service we offer and has a monthly cost associated with it. This is a regulated service & is included in our General Tarifs found in our Aliant directories.
We do understand how frustrating this has been. Thank you for taking the time to share your experience.
Thank you for choosing Aliant and have a nice day.

Sincerely,

Line Perron
Consumer Solution Agent


Department: Billing
Reason: Billing
Root Cause: Recurring Charges
Regarding issue: Cust provided no contact info except email address:

I was speaking to a customer service rep today on the phone and was going through the process of purchasing a value package with Aliant. When I asked that my number not be listed I was informed that there would be a monthly fee of nearly $6.00 to keep my name out of the phone book. This is a complete disgrace. I was willing to pay for a home phone I will likely never use (my wife and I both have cell phones and I haven''t had a land line in my house for more than 8 years) and a long distance package I will never use in order to get the Aliant TV and cable package but I will not get ripped off $6.00 a month for you to NOT do something. The total cost of the package I was purchasing was $117/month (not including my current Mobility cell package) money you lost to greed. I happen to know a YPG employee and was informed it does not cost Aliant anything the have a residential number unlisted in the phone book.

[TheeAlien]

Hey JimSmith,

Welcome to DH!

Aliant's website clearly offers several options for directory suppression which are regulated costs and offers per-province by the CRTC. The listing options are also printed quite clearly in phone books, and if you actually asked "what other options are available instead of just Non-published?" any reasonable customer service representative would have told you. Each provinces offerings and prices really do differ drastically, which is why it's always best to talk to a regional rep with questions.

- New Brunswick can have Non-published Listing $4.75.month or Limited Non-published Listing $1.95/month. Suppression for Directory Assistance, Directory Listing, and Call Display are all available.
- Nova Scotia can have Non-published listing for $5.75/month or a Limited Non-published listing for $2.00/month. Suppression for Directory Assistance, Directory Listing, and Call Display are all available.
- PEI can have Non-published Listing for $4.00/month or a Limited Non-published Listing for $2.00/month. Suppression for Directory Assistance, Directory Listing, and Call Display are all available.
- In Newfoundland only Limited non-published is available for $2.00/month. Directory suppression is available in all regions. Call Display isn't available in all regions and Call Display suppression is DEFINITELY not available in all regions. Directory Assistance is considered "Essential" in the province, and suppression is not available.

It should be said, for the above there are always exceptions. If you were a victim of crime, or have any reason where remaining unlisted is essential (such as a political official) free listings are available. Also, Students who state they are only living temporarily are given 8 month contracts for contract based services and given free limited non-published listings.

Now, to address the issue of it's "Free" for the Yellowpages to not be listed - it's simply bad math. A directory is an expensive thing Telcos need to publish. They make money from Business and Yellowpage listings and Residential Listings are what cause people to pick up or use the directory in the first place. When there are unlisted numbers, the utility of the directory diminishes and business and yellowpage listings become less profitable as extensive listings are used less and less. People can't find what they really need and as such would use the directory less. When you don't publish your name in the directory, you cost the telco's money - it doesn't cost them money to directly add your listing, but it will cost them in the end by having an incomplete listing no one would want to use.

The charge is a preventive measure to keep the utility of the directory in place.

PS; As an aside, I'm dubious over the e-mails you received. It doesn't appear in the standard e-mail formats Aliant has used at all. The standard greeting and close that are used are not the same as any that I've received from various agents from various departments.

[JimSmith]

TheeAlien,

Firstly, your suggestion that I should have had to ask for other available options is ludicrous. When the customer service rep told me what the charge was going to be I told her I was canceling my order only because of the outrageous amount they are charging for that service. If the rep doesn't take that opportunity to tell me there is a less expensive alternative I can't imagine it's considered poor due-diligence on the consumer’s part for not asking about alternatives. I had the same experience with the re-seller I eventually signed up with, $5.75 no mention of an alternative when I complained. When I complained to customer service, I have to bring it to their attention that forcing (by not providing an alternative) people to pay that much for that service is in violation of CRTC policy and only then do the tell me about the less expensive alternative. So, considering the agent obviously didn't know about the cheaper alternative, the re-seller didn't know and customer service didn't know I would speculate that a vast majority of Bell/Aliant customers in Nova Scotia are paying that extra $3.75 a month not knowing they don't have to. Aliant certainly doesn't tell customers that you can dial *67 to manually replicate the service they charge $3.75 a month for as their website specifically states "Your phone number and/or name will continue to appear on the Call Display of people you call" with no mention of the free *67 option. (http://productsandservice.aliant.net...jsp&curbody=33). I'm not saying they don't have the $2.00 alternative, in fact my original post clearly starts that they do but they certainly didn't "offer" it to me. If they had I wouldn't be writing this.

Secondly, the telcos don't publish the directory. Yellow Pages Group publishes the directory and YPG is a completely independent business entity from the telcos and they make their profit from selling Yellow Page ad space to businesses. To say the white page listings effect the profitability of the yellow pages is just bad logic although it seems the telcos have convinced the CRTC otherwise. The white and yellow pages used to be separate books (still are in some places) and the publishers still make money. The quantity of listed home numbers in the white pages is not a selling point when YPG sales personal are selling ads to businesses as I’m sure they know business owners advertising in the Yellow Pages wouldn't, like the rest of us, see the correlation. I’d also suggest the statement “Residential Listings are what causes people to pick up or use the directory in the first place” is, let’s face it, just not true anymore. With the proliferation of cell phones (who’s number are unpublished) IM and email, I’d venture that the big book I use exclusively to keep the top down on my dogs food bin is primarily used today as a means of finding business numbers and if everyone unlisted their phone numbers or the books were split in two again that YPG would be just as profitable. Even if my thinking is flawed I’m not costing the telcos money, it’s YPG who profit from the directory so Aliant gets my money (even just the $2.00) for nothing. They aren’t actually getting my money, as I stated earlier, I just listed under a fake name.

Thirdly, I included the emails I got from Aliant (dubious or not that’s where they originated) as an example of the poor customer service they provide. I was weeks trying to get an answer and ended up having to do the leg work myself and I had to re-initiate the communication twice.

[montrealmountain]

In Bell territory, they ask how the listing should appear in the book... this is the opportunity.

Pick a name.. any name... one that has a poor probability of existing...

Like Zizzzzy Belugahh... Rockie Craggg...

They do it..

Its your line.. you can use any name you like.

I love to get calls for Zizzzzy... I always tell those telemarketers that he is busy in the St. Lawerence river... he is fishing.... really!

[Nemnoch]

They do it..

Its your line.. you can use any name you like.

Actually, you can't.
There is a CRTC tariff regulation against using fake names or nicknames in a directory listing. I can't remember the exact tariff number, but I've looked it up before to double check.

It's something to the effect of 'the name listed in the directory has to be the name of someone who dwells at the residence listed on the account.' or something like that.


Nem, who dislikes tariffs (mostly because he forgets how to spell the word)