Audi A4 hatchback or Subaru Forester type?

[Bullseye]

The wife's car is coming to the end of it's lease, and we are considering either one of this cars. We are pretty much looking for reliability, good mileage, and ample space.

We also took into consideration resale value. The question to you folks, which one do you think is the overall winner and why?

We aren't looking to buy the latest model, we are open a previous year's model, so as to bring down cost.

Cheers

[Nuje]

The Audi A4 hatchback is actually branded as an A3, isn't it?

I think these are two quite different types of vehicles, with the Forrester being a smaller SUV, while the A3 is more sport-sedan-ish (?).

I love VW/Audi stuff - simply the way they handle, drive, feel, and if you drive conservatively, they deliver pretty decent fuel economy (for what they are); but if you wanna drive it like a sport sedan, it'll do that very well also.

Bear in mind that VW/Audi is designed to drive/handle well on the Autobahn, where cruising speeds are in the 150km/h range - so, at our pedestrian 110km/h limits, they are very stable and solid.

Never driven a Forrester, but I will say I've never really liked the looks of them. The Impreza, though, particularly the latest incarnation, is much more appealing to me, and probably more comparable in terms of road manners, to the A3/A4 (although somewhat downscale in price and "luxury").

[farfromover]

I bought a Subaru Legacy Wagon a couple years ago. I love the all-wheel drive, definitely good on gas and very reliable car.

[Stargazer]

I really like the A3 and even considered getting one. The fit and finish, especially the interior, is typical Audi: one of the best in the industry. You'll find that all the controls and features are very well thought out. Although the base price is very reasonable, keep in mind that once you start adding the options packages like HIDs and leather seats the price jumps up.

Subaru has a stellar reliability history and all-wheel drive is available even on the base model. You're not going to get an interior that matches the level of the Audi--they're definitely marketed at different segments. I like the look of the Forrester and it is definitely more SUV style than sports sedan, but in Europe they offer a Forrest STI that is very capable on the track--I wish they would bring that over here!

I have a Subaru Impreza STI myself, and I love it--no reliability issues at all. I also used to own a B5 Passat (based upon the previous generation Audi A4) and had no problems with it at all.

[Arthur Dent]

Originally Posted by Nuje

Bear in mind that VW/Audi is designed to drive/handle well on the Autobahn, where cruising speeds are in the 150km/h range - so, at our pedestrian 110km/h limits, they are very stable and solid.

Since this is not the first time I'm reading this beautiful "Autobahn" legend, I've always meant to ask - do you really think:

1. That non-blessed with the "Autobahn in mind" design cars are constructed in such way that they start falling apart after 150 km/h?
2. That the same unfortunate cars are less stable at 110 km/h than the blessed ones?

[Bullseye]

Originally Posted by Nuje

...Bear in mind that VW/Audi is designed to drive/handle well on the Autobahn,

Nuje...I have driven on the Autobahn many times, and into Switzerland from there. Anyway this car is meant for the wife for driving the kids, shopping and road trips.

Thx anyway

[Bullseye]

Originally Posted by Stargazer

...keep in mind that once you start adding the options packages like HIDs and leather seats the price jumps up.

Thx for that insight, not really bothered about the leather interior thing, as the wife is not a fan.

We are leaning towards the Sube

[Nuje]

1. That non-blessed with the "Autobahn in mind" design cars are constructed in such way that they start falling apart after 150 km/h?
2. That the same unfortunate cars are less stable at 110 km/h than the blessed ones?

Go drive a $15K VW (City Golf) at 120km/h for a few hours and then drive a $15K Kia or Honda or Hyundai or whatever doing the same thing and tell me which one feels better.

[Arthur Dent]

Originally Posted by Nuje

Go drive a $15K VW (City Golf) at 120km/h for a few hours and then drive a $15K Kia or Honda or Hyundai or whatever doing the same thing and tell me which one feels better.

If anecdote evidence counts - I personally see no difference between a Golf and a Civic in that respect (haven't had the chance to try the other $15K options). They both suck, in my opinion, for cruising on the highway - noisy and uncomfortable as is usually the case with any compact size car on a long trip.
Unless you mean something else by "feels better"? Perhaps the harder suspension on the Golf?

[135iAndy]

The A4 hatch, really is the A4 Avant wagon.
I have rented both last year, both are solid cars.

If you have long legs your knees will be more comfortable in a A4, both have lots of leg room but at 6-1 my knees where leaning into seems and knobs driving and after a couple of hours that started to irritate.

Millage was a bit better with the Audi, 2.0T I believe, the Forester was an HO engine.

Based on consumers, the Subaru may be cheaper in maintenance after 5 years or so, older Audis don't have a great image on reliability. That does not mean they are not.

Honda has the image of being reliable, Saturn does not, but for 6 years Honda supplied standard Honda engines to Saturn, and nobody ever told me that the Saturn engines where reliable.

My preference if I had to pick between the 2 would be the Audi. Or its cheaper cousin the VW Jetta wagon, that should be available in TDI by the summer.(euro tdi gets 44mpg)

Good luck with your decision, and this as usual should cause some hate from beloved Honda owners.

Andy

[Nuje]

Wow - when we were car-shopping for new cars, the Honda Civic of the day sounded just like a tin can while driving at highway speed, and if you hit a depression in the road, it felt like the car went weightless for a second - kinda scary.

So, maybe it is the tighter suspension that gives it a better feel on the road - I drove a Camry for a few days as a rental, and I just hated how it felt on the highway....just totally disconnected from the road.

To each their own. I have nothing against the Subaru - haven't driven one extensively, but I did take an Impreza out one time and was impressed-a. But looks-wise.....is there anyone in the world who likes the look of the '07Tribeca?

Forrester and impreza, though - much nicer looking!

[Bullseye]

Thanks for that folks. I wouldn't take a honda if they were handing them out for free!

[JonO]

Just curious if it's the A4 wagon or the A3 hatchback that you're looking at. I have the A3 and love it (doesn't appear to lose much room to the wagon, but I never even considered it, so I'm not sure about the differences). Just having a few "mechanical" problems, which I assume to be bad luck, rather than an Audi issue... (maybe?)

[powerstream]

Originally Posted by Arthur Dent

Since this is not the first time I'm reading this beautiful "Autobahn" legend, I've always meant to ask - do you really think:

1. That non-blessed with the "Autobahn in mind" design cars are constructed in such way that they start falling apart after 150 km/h?
2. That the same unfortunate cars are less stable at 110 km/h than the blessed ones?

Ooh ooh raises hands, raises hands:

(1) Well, it's not about them falling apart but they're obviously not built for it. I think the autobahn is too much of a cliche that some people in North America think unless a car has been tested extensively on it, that it's not capable of any true performance.

I've driven on the Autobahn and it's not a magical highway, just a very well maintained one and unique with some of its features. It is basically our equivalent of the 400 series highways. Problem is in this country we can't afford to build highways as good as the Autobahns. No budget for it. And even if there was a budget, people here drive like ****. They don't know how to drive at all. Now just imagine what will happen if we remove the speed limit from the passing lane on some sections just like the Autobahn. There will be carnage. Contrary to popular belief, in Europe most cars are not built for the Autobahn. Obviously the luxury brands are, as are some VWs and Audis and Alfas, but I wouldn't exactly try to max out my Citroen or Golf on the Autobahn if you know what I mean, otherwise I would be picking up parts of the car all over the road.

But the key difference with the performance brands is that how smooth the ride is at such high speeds. Two years ago I drove a Saab 9-3 on the 407 on Canada Day coming back from Niagara and at 200 km/h you can't even feel any resistance (I borrowed the car from the dealership I was working with at the time). It's as though the car is gliding on air. Very quiet in the cabin too. And because of the turbo I was cruising at just over 4000 rpms. Not bad at all for this speed. I could have pushed it further and luckily the 407 was virtually empty at the time but I was very surprised how well the vehicle behaved. Now 200 may seem very wild for us but it's nothing really if you got the proper car and you drive responsibly. I don't know if the 9-3 was tested on the Autobahn but you can expect the same and obviously even better with the rest of the luxury brands, with some models obviously geared specifically for this kind of high performance driving.

(2) I would say most domestic cars and even the Asian cars can do fine up to 160 km/h. Hell I've done 180 with my Oldsmobile Ciera with the 3.3 V6 and it's not as if the engine was being maxed to keep me at that speed. But the ride quality was not nearly as good as the Saab. A lot of wind noise, engine noise, the handling was decent, but because of the semi-independent suspension in the back obviously you can feel the butt was a little bit all over the place. But as you get closer towards the 200 mark, any car not geared for that will wear out quickly as the internal components, the engine, transmission, tires, suspension, are just not built for such speeds.

Oh and in response for the original poster, I would test drive both vehicles and decide. I think the AWD is standard with the Subaro. Dunno about the A4. IIRC the A4 rides on a VW-derived platform that for now is only for Audis. VW is apparently trying to shed the image that Audis are just re-badged VWs.

[Arthur Dent]

I agree pretty much with everything powerstream said. All performance cars do well at high speeds, but this "Autobahn" cliche seems to be the favourite line only when someone tries to push small German cars. Although, as we agree, you wouldn't want to be doing 200 in a Golf, no matter where you are.