New House problems with Builder - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

tokinup · 2008-04-24, 09:57 PM

Guys, my new house is under construction in the Rutherford/Dufferin area (h&r developments), and the builder has made a severe deviation from the floor plan. My staircase is supposed to be 8 feet from the front door, but theyve place it at 5 feet. My entrance is totally ruined.
I've talked to customer service, and they told me that 'all dimensions are approximate', and there nothing they can do. Do I have any recourse ?
Id be grateful for any insight.

I'm so upset, I cant sleep.

57 · 2008-04-24, 10:39 PM

If you check the contract and the drawings and they do say something like "all dimensions are approximate, builder has the right to make changes, " etc, then you have no recourse. MarketPlace did a programme on this regarding Condos a while back - how the builders showed suites that were much larger than the final build, showed materials of construction that were extra, etc.

They discussed the need to read the contract very carefully, have a lawyer review it and don't sign or agree to anything that you don't agree with.

john33 · 2008-04-24, 10:47 PM

Contact GTHBA and Tarion-they should be able to give info on how much a builder can deviate from original plan (losing sq. footage not just a few inches)

tokinup · 2008-04-24, 11:00 PM

ive spoken with Tarion, and they were basically defending the builder, telling me that "building a house is complicated and will always involve discrepancies".

never would have bought this damn house if knew the entrance would be butchered.

powerstream · 2008-04-24, 11:15 PM

Note to new home buyers: always ask the degree to which builders are allowed to deviate from their estimates and any re-course available to you if they screw up. Remember that when you buy a house, the floor plan in the brochure is effectively a marketing campaign, so you should always ask them before you sign. Sorry to be rubbing it in but it's the best advice one could offer under the circumstances.

BTW welcome to the area. I'm about 5 minutes north from you but I can tell you it's a fantastic location.

bete_noir · 2008-04-24, 11:55 PM

tokinup:

I feel for ya, man....my place is only a few minutes away from you, north of Rutherford/16th but closer to Yonge than Dufferin. Luckily, it was a resale property so I knew what I was getting when I bought it.

congo · 2008-04-25, 06:42 AM

Is it too far along to have it changed? Are there other, exact models, being built right now that you can look at? If the other home's staircase is in the correct position then you may have a case, meaning that the change wasn't due to structural requirements but more the builder's mistake.

Congo

Jake · 2008-04-25, 07:44 AM

I would ask if the new plans designs were inspected or signed-off by an engineer (if necessary). If there are no modified plans then then something is wrong here.

Leaf Fan · 2008-04-25, 07:45 AM

I think you are up you know what creek, without a paddle
I saw the W5 special too
It would be nice if the builders deviate from the original plan, by ADDING, but it usually doesn't work that way
I'm guessing the only recourse you have would be to back out, which they would like, so they could sell it to someone else, for more money...
Sorry to hear

tokinup · 2008-04-25, 07:47 AM

congo, its not too far along to be changed. Although I imagine it would take a lot of work for them to do it. I just met 3 other people at the site yesterday who bought the same house, and theyre all very ticked about this.

My lawyer wants to take them to court, but I'm not sure he's being honest about my chances. These guys want to litigate everything and take your money.

Jake · 2008-04-25, 08:00 AM

FYI:

Quote:

Framing and Mechanical Rough-In Inspection
Required at completion of structural framing, stairs, including components of fire separation and fire stopping. Completion of rough-in for electrical system, fireplace, ductwork for heating, ventilation and air conditioning.
Exterior of building must be weather proofed.
A copy of the as-built survey plan should be provided to the Building Official at this stage.

http://www.ottawa.ca/residents/build.../index_en.html

Tezster · 2008-04-25, 10:03 AM

Unless it was specifically attached as a separate document (schedule) as part of the original contract/purchase agreement, anticipate that *anything* and *everything* can change. This is one thing I quickly found out as someone who has gone through the new home-buying process recently (last year).

Basically, if it's important to you, get it in writing from the builder. If the builder won't budge, be prepared to walk away from the deal. Obviously, at this point, it's probably too late to do that, but a good builder should at the very least negotiate in good faith and try to accomodate the buyer. You are, after all, their customer.

Tarion is good for some things, and not for others. Although they try to create an image that they are pro-consumer and an advocate for the home buyer, this isn't necessarily the case. There is very little transparancy in what they do, and a majority of the people that sit on the Tarion board are chosen from the builder and developer community.

JohnnyG · 2008-04-25, 10:42 AM

How can you tell exactly that the staircase was supposed to be 8' from the front door? Did you actually get a copy of the construction plans, or is this as measured off the sales literature?

notsure · 2008-04-25, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tokinup

ive spoken with Tarion, and they were basically defending the builder, telling me that "building a house is complicated and will always involve discrepancies".

never would have bought this damn house if knew the entrance would be butchered.

We just went through the new home thing and let me tell you that Tarion is a builder organization there to protect the builder. It was sold as a consumer protection mechanism but that's just not true.

I would contact my lawyer directly to see what your best recourse is.

tokinup · 2008-04-25, 12:20 PM

Thanks for all your responses guys.

I did have a copy of the floor plan from the sales office attached to the purchasing agreement, but it doesnt really specify what constitutes "1 foot". All work Ive done on this house at the decor center was based on one square on the floor plan = one sq foot.

Anyways, I'm out of luck I think. This really effects the resale value of the house, as my friends all think the entrance looks abnormal.

2008-04-24, 09:57 PM	#1
tokinup Rookie Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 8	New House problems with Builder Guys, my new house is under construction in the Rutherford/Dufferin area (h&r developments), and the builder has made a severe deviation from the floor plan. My staircase is supposed to be 8 feet from the front door, but theyve place it at 5 feet. My entrance is totally ruined. I've talked to customer service, and they told me that 'all dimensions are approximate', and there nothing they can do. Do I have any recourse ? Id be grateful for any insight. I'm so upset, I cant sleep.

2008-04-24, 10:39 PM	#2
57 Moderator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto, Rogers, 8300HD, eHDD, Panasonic TCP65S1, Denon AVR4310Ci; 8300HD, eHDD & Sony KDL40W3000 Posts: 50,335	If you check the contract and the drawings and they do say something like "all dimensions are approximate, builder has the right to make changes, " etc, then you have no recourse. MarketPlace did a programme on this regarding Condos a while back - how the builders showed suites that were much larger than the final build, showed materials of construction that were extra, etc. They discussed the need to read the contract very carefully, have a lawyer review it and don't sign or agree to anything that you don't agree with. __________________ 57's Home Theatre (Latest equipment & photos) 57's Optimization Services (Home Theatre Optimization)

2008-04-25, 06:42 AM	#7
congo Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 804	Is it too far along to have it changed? Are there other, exact models, being built right now that you can look at? If the other home's staircase is in the correct position then you may have a case, meaning that the change wasn't due to structural requirements but more the builder's mistake. Congo __________________ Panny TC-P60GT50, Bell 9242, Yamaha RX-V730, Paradigm Cinema 70, Harmony One, HTPC

2008-04-25, 07:44 AM	#8
Jake Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Gatineau and Ottawa Posts: 10,231	I would ask if the new plans designs were inspected or signed-off by an engineer (if necessary). If there are no modified plans then then something is wrong here. __________________ Tip: See an offending post? Don't reply, report it by clicking on the 'Report Post' icon.

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2008-04-24, 10:47 PM	#3
john33 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Hamilton- St Clair Posts: 242	Contact GTHBA and Tarion-they should be able to give info on how much a builder can deviate from original plan (losing sq. footage not just a few inches)

2008-04-24, 11:00 PM	#4
tokinup Rookie Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 8	ive spoken with Tarion, and they were basically defending the builder, telling me that "building a house is complicated and will always involve discrepancies". never would have bought this damn house if knew the entrance would be butchered.

2008-04-24, 11:15 PM	#5
powerstream Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Thornhill Posts: 383	Note to new home buyers: always ask the degree to which builders are allowed to deviate from their estimates and any re-course available to you if they screw up. Remember that when you buy a house, the floor plan in the brochure is effectively a marketing campaign, so you should always ask them before you sign. Sorry to be rubbing it in but it's the best advice one could offer under the circumstances. BTW welcome to the area. I'm about 5 minutes north from you but I can tell you it's a fantastic location.

2008-04-24, 11:55 PM	#6
bete_noir Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Richmond Hill, ON Posts: 675	tokinup: I feel for ya, man....my place is only a few minutes away from you, north of Rutherford/16th but closer to Yonge than Dufferin. Luckily, it was a resale property so I knew what I was getting when I bought it.

2008-04-25, 07:45 AM	#9
Leaf Fan Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 370	I think you are up you know what creek, without a paddle I saw the W5 special too It would be nice if the builders deviate from the original plan, by ADDING, but it usually doesn't work that way I'm guessing the only recourse you have would be to back out, which they would like, so they could sell it to someone else, for more money... Sorry to hear

2008-04-25, 07:47 AM	#10
tokinup Rookie Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 8	congo, its not too far along to be changed. Although I imagine it would take a lot of work for them to do it. I just met 3 other people at the site yesterday who bought the same house, and theyre all very ticked about this. My lawyer wants to take them to court, but I'm not sure he's being honest about my chances. These guys want to litigate everything and take your money.

2008-04-25, 10:03 AM	#12
Tezster Veteran Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Mississauga Posts: 1,985	Unless it was specifically attached as a separate document (schedule) as part of the original contract/purchase agreement, anticipate that anything and everything can change. This is one thing I quickly found out as someone who has gone through the new home-buying process recently (last year). Basically, if it's important to you, get it in writing from the builder. If the builder won't budge, be prepared to walk away from the deal. Obviously, at this point, it's probably too late to do that, but a good builder should at the very least negotiate in good faith and try to accomodate the buyer. You are, after all, their customer. Tarion is good for some things, and not for others. Although they try to create an image that they are pro-consumer and an advocate for the home buyer, this isn't necessarily the case. There is very little transparancy in what they do, and a majority of the people that sit on the Tarion board are chosen from the builder and developer community.

2008-04-25, 10:42 AM	#13
JohnnyG Veteran Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: North York, Ontario Posts: 10,407	How can you tell exactly that the staircase was supposed to be 8' from the front door? Did you actually get a copy of the construction plans, or is this as measured off the sales literature?

2008-04-25, 12:20 PM	#15
tokinup Rookie Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 8	Thanks for all your responses guys. I did have a copy of the floor plan from the sales office attached to the purchasing agreement, but it doesnt really specify what constitutes "1 foot". All work Ive done on this house at the decor center was based on one square on the floor plan = one sq foot. Anyways, I'm out of luck I think. This really effects the resale value of the house, as my friends all think the entrance looks abnormal.