Bitstreamed dts-HD Master Audio - the "bitstream bomb" - UPDATED (Onkyo fix) - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums
 

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Old 2008-03-25, 12:30 AM   #1
JohnnyCanuck
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Default Bitstreamed dts-HD Master Audio - the "bitstream bomb" - UPDATED (Onkyo fix)

The "Bitstream Bomb":

***See Post #8 for latest information

This issue has been documented in various places around the internet, including some reputable message boards. HDM players that bitstream dts-HD MA have, with certain movies, a demonstrated high volume pop through certain receivers. It will certainly wake up your neighbourhood and may damage your speakers. I haven't seen any confirmed cases of speaker damage reported, but there is a legitimate fear.

Movies known to have the problem:

* 1408
* Golden Compass (BD)
* The Fly (BD)
* Chronos (BD)
* Fantastic Four (BD)
* Hannibal Rising (HD DVD)
* Close Encounters of the Third Kind (BD)
* Eagles Farewell Concert (HD DVD)


Typically it occurs only once per movie.

Receivers known to be susceptible to the problem:

* Onkyo 605, 705, 805, PR885
* Integra 8.8, 9.8
* Yamaha RX-V3800, RX-V1800

There has also been an isolated complaint of it happening with a Pioneer 91TXH.

The problem appears to be related to older encodes that were authored prior to dts upgrading their authoring suite to 1.5 (September 2007) or 1.51 (December 2007). There have been no complaints noted with newer releases such as I, Robot. Some internet reports quote dts as saying that they have revised their authoring suite to take into account the issues with the specific IC. However, dts themselves have said that isn't the case but have acknowledged the two upgrades to their authoring suite. It could be that, as a byproduct of those revisions, the particular prefect storm of circumstances (specific IC, implementation, and particular datastream) necessary to produce the "bitstream bomb" has been addressed.

Marantz and Denon AVR's use a different IC chip for bitstream processing and do not have the problem. Also, some new pressings of Fantastic Four are apparently re-encoded and do not have the problem.

A number of different players have been used that all exhibited the same problem: Toshiba HD-XA2 & HD-A35; Pioneer BDP-95FD; Panasonic BD-30; and Denon 3800. I have experienced it in Fanastic 4 at about the 4 minute 35 second mark with an LG BH200 bitstreamed to an Onkyo TX-SR805.

You may want to use a different audio codec for those discs noted above. I know a number of people have been waiting for the Panasonic BD-50 and the Sony S350 because of the bitstream ability, but if you have an affected receiver, you may want to rely on a unit with onboard decoding.

Onkyo is reportedly aware of the problem and looking into it. This does not affect TrueHD via bitstream, only dts-HD Master Audio.

Last edited by JohnnyCanuck; 2008-04-11 at 02:23 AM.
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Old 2008-03-28, 02:03 PM   #2
hugh
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Thanks JohnnyCanuck, very informative post.
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Old 2008-03-28, 02:21 PM   #3
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Is the Samsung 1400 included in the problematic players? I guess it shouldn'd really matter on the player, it's the AVR that's going to cause the problem (well, DTS is actually causing the problem, but I digress.) I'll have to listen for it, since I use a Yamaha 1800. Thanks for the post.
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Old 2008-03-28, 09:31 PM   #4
JohnnyCanuck
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The "Bitstream Bomb" Updated:

(Updates in dark blue)

This issue has been documented in various places around the internet, including some reputable message boards. HDM players that bitstream dts-HD MA have, with certain movies, a demonstrated high volume pop through certain receivers. It will certainly wake up your neighbourhood and may damage your speakers. I haven't seen any confirmed cases of speaker damage reported, but there is a legitimate fear.

Movies known to have the problem:

* 1408
* Golden Compass (BD)
* The Fly (BD) - 13:00
* Chronos (BD) - 38:52
* Fantastic Four (BD) - 4:22 or 4:35
* Hannibal Rising (HD DVD)
* Close Encounters of the Third Kind (BD) - 23:40
* Eagles Farewell Concert (HD DVD)
* Flight of the Phoenix (BD) -51:00
* Flyboys (BD)


Typically it occurs only once per movie.

Receivers known to be susceptible to the problem:

* Onkyo 605, 705, 805, PR885
* Integra 8.8, 9.8
* Yamaha RX-V3800, RX-V1800

There has also been an isolated complaint of it happening with a Pioneer 91TXH.

The problem appears to be related to older encodes that were authored prior to dts upgrading their authoring suite to 1.5 (September 2007) or 1.51 (December 2007). There have been no complaints noted with newer releases such as I, Robot. Some internet reports quote dts as saying that they have revised their authoring suite to take into account the issues with the specific IC. However, dts themselves have said that isn't the case but have acknowledged the two upgrades to their authoring suite. It could be that, as a byproduct of those revisions, the particular prefect storm of circumstances (specific IC, implementation, and particular datastream) necessary to produce the "bitstream bomb" has been addressed.

Marantz and Denon AVR's use a different IC chip for bitstream processing and do not have the problem. Also, some new pressings of Fantastic Four are apparently re-encoded and do not have the problem.

A number of different players have been used that all exhibited the same problem: Toshiba HD-XA2 & HD-A35; Pioneer BDP-95FD; Panasonic BD-30; and Denon 3800. I have experienced it in Fanastic 4 at about the 4 minute 35 second mark with an LG BH200 bitstreamed to an Onkyo TX-SR805.

You may want to use a different audio codec for those discs noted above. I know a number of people have been waiting for the Panasonic BD-50 and the Sony S350 because of the bitstream ability, but if you have an affected receiver, you may want to rely on a unit with onboard decoding.

Onkyo is reportedly aware of the problem and looking into it. This does not affect TrueHD via bitstream, only dts-HD Master Audio.

There are reports of a successful firmware fix for Onkyo x05 AVR's in Europe. At least one ambitious member of AVS successfully applied it to his North American Onkyo. It does appear like a fix is near, but nothing has been officially released in Canada or the USA yet. Yamaha has apparently released updated firmware in Australia that fixes the issue as well. I've also seen updated firmware files on Yamaha's Product Advisory Board site (for dealers) but I haven't seen it confirmed that if fixes the "bitstream bomb".

The good news is that it appears that both Onkyo and Yamaha are moving quickly to try and resolve the problem. Let's hope that both companies provide user installable firmware updates in North America soon (I don't think anyone relishes the idea of unhooking a 55 lb. AVR and lugging it to a service centre).

Last edited by JohnnyCanuck; 2008-03-28 at 09:51 PM.
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Old 2008-04-01, 10:10 AM   #5
RRH
 
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Well I didn't experience any speaker damage from this thank god, but it did take out the DTS decoder module on My kenwood 7070A Reciever, at least that's what I believe happened to it.. Fortunately I had a makeshift workaround by using the Azentech DTS connect audio card in the HTPC to do the decoding now instead of the reciever, and I now ALWAYS make sure that the Volume is Set very low at start up and at the movie ending when using a BD with a DTSHD soundtrack.. It seems as though the loudest pop occurs both at the beginning of the end of the movies.. the occasional one during playback don't compare to initial & ending ones, at least in my experience..
Fantastic Four was the killing culprit in my case.


Iam Waiting for the Yamaha 6160 to become availible later this month, to replace the older Kenwood.
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Old 2008-04-04, 04:24 AM   #6
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Yamaha, Onkyo and Integra units are effected, so far I haven't heard of any other receivers producing these results with bitstream.

I have tested out (carefully) a few of these discs on my BD30 with my Denon 4308 and I get no issues.
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Old 2008-04-04, 01:00 PM   #7
JohnnyCanuck
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It is no other receivers. The Onkyo European firmware does appear to resolve the problem and now has been used by many Onkyo owners in the US and Canada. It is still not officially supported by Onkyo Canada so use at your own risk.
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Old 2008-04-11, 02:15 AM   #8
JohnnyCanuck
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Apparently, Onkyo US has now released official firmware updates for TX-SRx05/75 receivers that fixes the bitstream bomb.

Firmware available here. Note that you must have registered your receiver to download the firmware.

No word yet from Yamaha about a fix.
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Old 2008-04-18, 06:28 PM   #9
NormC
 
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Yamaha has a fix for the RX-V3800 on their site at http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/p...DETYP=RELATION and I believe they also have one for the RX-V1800 / HTR-6190 on the same site.

Norm
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Old 2008-05-11, 07:20 PM   #10
Canuck21
 
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Where exactly can I find the fix for my Yamaha HTR-6190? I looked everywhere and can't find it.
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Old 2008-05-20, 05:48 PM   #11
stonedpimp
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Default htr-6190 owners please read....

i have the htr-6190 and contacted yamaha customer service via email two weeks ago after reading about the problem here. i received a quick response which included a link to a firmware update download and instructions on how to do it. its not complicated at all but your receiver settings get reset so you will have to set up everything again after the update and its only necessary if your receivers serial number is smaller than Y219817WY. check your serial numbers and contact customer service if need be and they will take care of you.
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Old 2008-06-08, 09:12 PM   #12
Sam
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NormC View Post
Yamaha has a fix for the RX-V3800 on their site at http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/p...DETYP=RELATION and I believe they also have one for the RX-V1800 / HTR-6190 on the same site.

Norm
My RXV3800 exhibited the bitstream bomb today when I played the Eagles Farewell Tour - Melbourne. I checked the link you provided but it's only for US residents.

Does anyone know where to download this firmware update for Canadian residents?
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Old 2008-06-09, 08:26 PM   #13
NormC
 
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Well I downloaded it from that site and applied the update. No issues so far...
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Old 2008-06-10, 12:09 AM   #14
Sam
 
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I hope to hear from Yamaha Canada soon about the fix. Nothing is posted in their website but I think I read somewhere that they send a CD of the firmware. I'd prefer a download though, because it's faster.
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Old 2008-06-10, 04:35 AM   #15
jjang
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I have a RX-V3800 (Canadian) and I used the firmware from US site today. No problem at all. Aren't they the same US and Canada model? I think only the manual languages are different. We have French and they have Spanish.

Yamaha RX-V3800, Klipsch RC-7 centre, Monster THX SL200 front, Klipsch AW-400 surround and rear, Velondyne SPL1000R sub, Panasonic PT-AX100U projector, Samsung BD-1400 Blu-ray, Denon DVD-3810ci.
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