Confirmed: TekSavvy traffic now being throttled by Bell

[jvincent]

I actually prefer brunettes to blondes. And redheads. Ahhh, redheads.

Back on topic, I realize that they spend their taxes on lots of other things. My point still remains that in general we are much better off letting private enterprise drive things like the internet.

Remember when the internet was largely a government sponsored tool for academics? Then people figured out they could make money off it and it grew exponentially.

[technut]

Oh, so that was your point... I thought the point was that Europe's ISPs can't be compared to our ISPs due to population density, which was disputed, so then you tossed in taxes as another reason they can't be compared. Didn't make much sense to me.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Corporations are contributing to the growth of the Internet because they have found profit in it, not out of the goodness of their hearts because they think growing the Internet benefits us as individuals or as a society.

I believe that the Internet would best benefit society if it was operated in a neutral way as opposed to in a way that prioritizes corporate interests (ie. maximizing profits). I don't trust corporate interests to always and only do what is in my best interest. And I don't feel like begging corporations to do the right thing either. When they go wrong, that's when government should step in (on my behalf) and bring them back in line.

[57]

It's nice that:

1. We can agree to disagree.
2. That we can have these discussions.
3. That there are many options for many different people with many different needs.
4. That when things get "really bad" we have a Government that does (often slowly) step in when necessary.

[jvincent]

I don't trust corporate interests to always and only do what is in my best interest. And I don't feel like begging corporations to do the right thing either.

But since when is high speed internet for the masses in anyone's best interest?

We got along fine without it for many years. Sure, many things that we do now are a lot easier and more efficient, but the overwheliming majority of those are commercially driven.

As an example, whenever I do anything on a government website I am appalled at how inefficient and cumbersome it is. Multiple logins and re-directs that require the same set of obscure (and often different) userids, passwords, and codes to be entered and re-entered. All to access my data! It's not like they don't have a single unique identifier for me, i.e. my SIN, now is it?

Compare that to the one or two click e-commerce experiences with all of the financial and other institutions I deal with.

Which of these two entities do you want running the Internet?

[hugh]

Thanks 57 and to finalize that

the topic is

Confirmed: TekSavvy traffic now being throttled by Bell

so lets all try to stick to it now.

[NefCanuck]

Oh to get my hands on the contract between TekSavvy & Bell. Being in the legal profession I'm often looking through contracts that seem like they were either:

a) Drafted by a three year old on a sugar high
b) So densely packed with escape clauses that they may as well have been drafted by Houdini himself.

My guess is that we're looking at b) and unless Teksavvy can find the legal fly paper, that Bell is perfectly entitled to do this...

NefCanuck

[biggyk]

Oh well I was going to go with teksavvy but now cause of reading this im not so sure. I am with rogers now and trying to escape the throttling

[shabbs]

Originally Posted by biggyk

Oh well I was going to go with teksavvy but now cause of reading this im not so sure. I am with rogers now and trying to escape the throttling

In all honesty, these developments should not really affect your decision. You're going to be throttled no matter where you go. Rogers and Bell have been doing it for a while already. By the sounds of it, the price, service and higher caps alone are worth switching.

[I_Want_My_HDTV]

I would rather the Canadian ISPs provide me as much unrestricted bandwidth as technologically possible, but move to a fee based on aggregate bandwidth use.

I agree. It should be up to the ISP. Bell recently lowered their rates for traffic on their DSL network so bandwidth costs cannot be that much of an issue.

But I wonder if what the major ISPs are doing by traffic shaping is in violation of any of our laws? Might be a gray area.

This is not a gray area. It is illegal in Canada. By restricting DSL bandwidth, Bell is using it's monopoly in DSL networking to engage in anticompetitive practices. It is not only restricting ISPs from delivering competing DSL services but also restricting competing phone services that rely on DSL technology.

Why would traffic shaping be against the law?

Traffic shaping is one thing. Traffic restriction is another. Bell is engaged in traffic restriction.

Seriously though, if there is money to be made in building up the infrastructure, it will happen.

Unless the infrastructure is controlled by a monopoly that is intent on restricting competition against its own ISP at the expense of the public interest.

[ultracat]

Oh to get my hands on the contract between TekSavvy & Bell. Being in the legal profession I'm often looking through contracts that seem like they were either:

a) Drafted by a three year old on a sugar high
b) So densely packed with escape clauses that they may as well have been drafted by Houdini himself.

My guess is that we're looking at b) and unless Teksavvy can find the legal fly paper, that Bell is perfectly entitled to do this...

NefCanuck
/quote

The relationship between Bell and those it wholesales to is governed by tariff agreements, which can be found here:
http://www.bce.ca/en/aboutbce/regula...hp/content.asp

Here's what Rocky, the president of Teksavvy, has posted on the Teksavvy forums in answer to the question 'what basis has Bell given you for this move?':

"Believe it revolves around the overall General Tariff... from the looks of it, on the retail side...

Section 8 - Restriction on use of service

Grab your Bell white pages phone book and open it to section 8.3 "Customers are prohibited from using Bell Canada services or permitting them to be used so as to prevent a fair and proportionate use by others."

This is seemingly the main part of the argument from the looks of it and why Bell has given themselves permission to throttle.... "...fair and proportionate use...".

Rocky

Rocky
--
TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc."

Also some good reading, here is Bell's official letter to Teksavvy hot off the press from today: http://www.dslreports.com/r0/downloa...r_en_mar28.pdf

[I_Want_My_HDTV]

OTOH, contract law cannot contravene common law. IMHO, Bell is using its monopoly position in DSL networking to engage in anticompetitive practices that benefit its own ISP and telephone divisions. Let the supreme court ponder that.

[I_Want_My_HDTV]

profession I'm often looking through contracts that seem like they were either:
a) Drafted by a three year old on a sugar high

What my lawyer provided me.

b) So densely packed with escape clauses that they may as well have been drafted by Houdini himself.

What my previous employer's lawyer provided to their insurance company.

[I_Want_My_HDTV]

It's still worth getting Teksavvy. If anyone will win against Bell it will be them. Rocky and Steve just love to put Bell in their place. Rogers also uses packet shaping and is much more expensive so it's not really a win. The best bet is for everyone to support Teksavvy by subscribing to their services and dumping overpriced bullies like Bell Sympatico and Rogers.

[heybirder]

The problem at the moment is Bell is throttling all traffic and rogers shapes all bt traffic.

It's just not Teksavvy, it's everyone Bell sells to. I use Velcom and have had rock solid service for about a year until until a week or so ago. Web pages were slow to load and ping times on my online game were terrible. I put in a ticket and was told Bell has been making changes. Well, today I find out just what the extent of those changes are (I don't read a lot of news sites these days)

DSL is nearly usable for me now due to this throttling. I'm going to wait it out for a little longer but my options are either go back to Rogers or possibly pay for a HSA connection (I'd move to Teksavvy for that), provided they aren't going to be capped.

[heybirder]

Just to elaborate a little bit more on what is happening...

Teksavvy posted their usage graphs over at dslreports. Bell has cut their bandwith by about 60%. That's all their traffic and what is most interesting is that p2p traffic is actually a distant 3rd in total usage behind udp and web traffic. So much for the "p2p is filling up the network bs the monopolies have been shoveling).

This certainly explains why my connectivity has been in the dumper the last week or so.