Toronto/Buffalo OTA channels after 2009 and then 2011 (closed)

[Walter Dnes]

There are separate dates for the US and Canadian analogue shutdowns. I'm assuming that...

• There won't be delays to the analogue shutdowns
• VHF-LO channels 2..6 will be abandoned, along with 52..69
• All proposed Canadian stations will actually survive the switchover (not guaranteed)

I'm also making the assumption that the analog channel will be dropped, infavour of the current digital, except where the digital is above 51.

The American analogue shutdown as of 2009/02/17 will result in the following

• WUTV, currently using digital 14 and analog 29. Channel 29 will be freed up
• WNYB, currently using digital 27 and analog 26. Channel 26 will be freed up
• WNLO, currently using digital 32 and analog 23. Channel 23 will be freed up
• WGRZ, currently using digital 33 and analog 2. No net change, as VHF-LO is being abandoned, at least unofficially.
• WNYO, currently using digital 34 and analog 49. Channel 49 will be freed up
• WKBW, currently using digital 38 and analog 7. Channel 7 will be freed up
• WIVB, currently using digital 39 and analog 4. No net change, as VHF-LO is being abandoned, at least unofficially.
• WNED, currently using digital 43 and analog 17. Channel 17 will be freed up
• WNGS, currently using analog 67. This will take away 1 digital channel (namely 46) when it cuts over.
• WPXJ, currently using analog 51. No net change, as its current analog channel will be swapped for a digital channel.

6 channels freed up, 2 breakevens, and 1 extra channel occupied. Net result 5 channels freed up

The Canadian analogue shutdown as of 2011/08/31 will result in the following

• CKXT, currently using digital 15 and analog 45. Channel 45 will be freed up
• CHCH, currently using analog 11. No net change, as its current analog channel will be swapped for a digital channel.
• CBLT, currently using digital 20 and analog 5. No net change, as VHF-LO is being abandoned, at least unofficially.
• CBLFT, currently using digital 24 and analog 25. Channel 25 will be freed up
• CTS, currently using analog 36. No net change, as its current analog channel will be swapped for a digital channel.
• CFTO, currently using digital 40 and analog 9. Channel 9 will be freed up
• OMNI2, currently using digital 44 and analog 69. No net change, as 52..69 is being abandoned
• CITY, currently using digital 53 and analog 57. This will take away 1 digital channel when it cuts over.
• OMNI1, currently using digital 64 and analog 47. No net change, as
  52..69 is being abandoned
• CIII, currently assigned digital 65 and analog 41. No net change, as 52..69 is being abandoned
• CKXT, currently using digital 66 and analog 52. This will take away 1 digital channel when it cuts over.
• TVO No net change if/when it cuts over to digital.
• HDTV networks proposed Toronto affiliate. This will occupy 1 digital channel when it goes live.

3 channels freed up, 6 breakevens, and 3 extra channels occupied. Net result is neutral.

Note that in addition to 5 channels being freed up (net), adjacent channels can be used on digital broadcasts, unlike the case with analogue.

[I_Want_My_HDTV]

I hope Industry Canada is on top of this. Chances are they are and have secured decent digital channel allocations for Canadian stations. The CRTC will, of course, step in and allocate channels in a way that will block US station reception as much as possible, forcing Canadians to either watch Canadian OTA channels or sub to Canadian BDUs. Only in Canada, eh?

[Random Dude]

When you say no net change, I'm assuming the channel won't change positions? Meaning CIII TV will broadcast on 41 digital?

[stampeder]

RandomDude, he's speculating on how the channel layouts will look after the respective analogue shutdowns in the U.S. in 2009 and then in Canada in 2011.

Its a very interesting read and Walter's put a lot of thought into it, but remember that he's warned you about the assumptions he's based them on: we don't know yet how things might actually pan out when other forces (i.e. political, economical, commercial) are involved.

There is no factual answer to your question at this time.

[jeneral]

An nice read but there are some addendum's:

- WPXJ has requested channel 23 for its digital assignment for the switchover.
- WNGS has requested channel 7 for the switchover.
- CHCH is assigned channel 18 for DTV (whether we'll ever see it live is a mystery).
- TVO is assigned channel 51 (I also doubt this one will appear before the switchover).

[dsspredator]

I'm confused:

In Canada, will CITY DT 53 (and others) need to switch to a new frequency between 6 and 51? Or is that just in the USA?

[stampeder]

The futures of 2 through 6 and 52 through 69 in Canada have not been decided at this time.

[Walter Dnes]

Originally Posted by Random Dude

When you say no net change, I'm assuming the channel won't change positions? Meaning CIII TV will broadcast on 41 digital?

Not quite. The important thing is how many channels between 7 and 51 the station occupies now, versus the 1 channel it occupies after the cutover...

• WNED occupies 2 channels today (17 and 43). Since it will be using only 1 after the cutover, that frees up 1 channel, regardless of the exact channel number.
• CIII occupies 1 channel today, and will occupy 1 channel after the cutover. Regardless of the exact channel number, that means no change in the channel supply/demand situation.
• CITY occupies zero channels in 7..51 range (53 and 57). It will occupy 1 channel after the cutover. That's going to increase the demand for channel spectrum by 1.

And I am assuming that everybody survives. With CIII (Global), some people have their doubts. And CKXT (SUN TV) is not doing too well, ratings-wise. To make things worse, Quebecor Inc (SUN's parent) has its hands full with ongoing losses at its Quebecor World printing subsidiary. 6 CEO's in 4 years says it all. For the gruesome details see http://canadianpress.google.com/arti...w1MtOk3Ss7FHZw The result could be that Quebecor Inc may be looking to sell off unprofitable subsidiaries, or (in a worst case) shut them down.

[Walter Dnes]

Originally Posted by stampeder

The futures of 2 through 6 and 52 through 69 in Canada have not been decided at this time.

A major driving force for the digital switchover in the USA has been the US government's dreams of big money to be made auctioning off the spectrum formerly occupied by channels 52..69. Do a Google search on...

+"700 mhz" +auction

and you get over 400,000 hits. Seeing how Canada has followed the US with the digital switchover so far, I don't see us changing course now. Not shutting down TV channels 52..69 would have several effects...

• No money from a 700 mhz auction
• Stations using channels in the 52..69 range would have to keep their signal away from the US. E.g. CITY is 1200 watts, and aimed north from the CN tower. We won't be THAT short on channel space after the switchover.
• No money from a 700 mhz auction
• Somewhere down the road, I expect to see ATSC tuners manufactured for the US market that only receive channels up to 51, just like we no longer see tuners go up to 83 nowadays. Canada is a much smaller market than the US, and I don't see manufacturers doing non-standard tuners just for us. In plain English, if OTA tuners will not be able to receive channels 52..69, what's the point of broadcasting there?
• No money from a 700 mhz auction
• Another compatibility issue will be that Canadian cellphones roaming in the USA, and visa versa, will have to use "multi-standards". Again, Canada is a small market, which doesn't justify a separate production run.
• No money from a 700 mhz auction

Oh yeah, did I mention "No money from a 700 mhz auction"

Channels 2..6 are a separate issue. They're simply a bad idea for a commercial station, and broadcasters have seized the opportunity to jump ship, when applying for a new digital channel after the cutover. You get a little more range, but once you get past the local metropolitan area, including suburbs, local commercials don't earn you as much revenue.
Skip reception of stations hundreds of km away can wreak havoc with reception of your signal in your local area. And because lower frequency == longer wavelength, rooftop antennas for VHF-LO channels are HUGE, which is a barrier for getting an audience. There's already a 4 mhz gap between channels 4 and 5, which is used for air traffic control. I can see VHF-LO being allocated to non-commercial uses.

[Tom.F.1]

so, why aren't the channel assignments being changed?

Sun on 66
Omii on 64
Global on 65
City on 53

If i had just bought a new digital transmitter, antenna etc., and then CRTC wants to sell the frequency, wouldn't they have to pay me out of thier profits to change my new equipment?

[Walter Dnes]

Originally Posted by Tom.F.1

so, why aren't the channel assignments being changed?

Sun on 66
Omii on 64
Global on 65
City on 53

If i had just bought a new digital transmitter, antenna etc., and then CRTC wants to sell the frequency, wouldn't they have to pay me out of thier profits to change my new equipment?

Why do you think that the form at http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/forms/efiles/f132.htm refers to "Transitional Digital Television Undertaking"? The stations went into this knowing what they were getting into. They had to weigh the costs of a temporary setup, versus the lost viewers from not having HD channels. It also helps to get some practice in before going live, so that they're not fumbling around on Sept 1, 2011. And it's not as if they've invested a lot in their transmitters...

• SUN is broadcasting on 66 at 2810 watts
• Global has never been on 65 yet, and has finagled a "final, final extension" into 2008 to go live digital at 3000 watts
• OMNI1 is the strongest of the bunch at 15,000 watts on 64. They're still in "occasional test" mode.
• CITY is the weakest of the bunch at 1200 watts on 53

So you can see that, except for money-rich Rogers, they aren't exactly running even moderately strong transmitters. Actually, if the CRTC had any guts, they'd be able to save a couple of channel slots in the GTA. Start by ordering Rogers to...

• drop one of the 2 OMNI channels
• run 1 OMNI channel with a high-def and and an SDTV subchannel
• move NFL football to CITY
• if they really want to carry re-runs of the Simpson's and Family Guy on a second channel, they have to do that as an SDTV subchannel on CITY

Furthermore, they'd order TVO to run as an SDTV subchannel on one of the other stations. Before anyone starts yelling and screaming about "remember WNED", I should point out that you CAN get away with ONE SDTV subchannel without hurting the high-def channel. It's when you try to do 2 SDTV sub-channels, like WNED, in addition to a high-def channel, that you run into problems.

[Random Dude]

Very interesting topic. Unfortunately, there's a lot of waiting in this game.

[99gecko]

I think I read a commentary/article in November (around the time of the CRTC announcement of the spectrum auction) where the author thought that estimating the amount of $$$ to be raised in Canada by looking at the $$$ raised by the auction south of the border was flawed. There simply isn't near the demand in Canada that there is in the US. That doesn't mean that the telco's won't be jumping all over the spectrum sell-off. But it might mean that available number of channels might match the US (possibly for reasons that have been suggested in the earlier posts), and the thus the waiting and wondering game continues.

Somewhere down the road, I expect to see ATSC tuners manufactured for the US market that only receive channels up to 51, just like we no longer see tuners go up to 83 nowadays. Canada is a much smaller market than the US, and I don't see manufacturers doing non-standard tuners just for us. In plain English, if OTA tuners will not be able to receive channels 52..69, what's the point of broadcasting there?

Good point. It would be a very poor use of bandwidth if only owners of older model tuners could receive anything broadcast there. Oh, it's okay - at least 99gecko is covered

[videobruce]

WNGS, currently using analog 67. This will take away 1 digital channel (namely 46) when it cuts over.

WNGS has requested channel 7 for the switchover.

They are 'leasing' space on WKBWs' digital xmitter, so I would assume there will be no need for their channel 46 allocation.

WPXJ, currently using analog 51. No net change, as its current analog channel will be swapped for a digital channel.

They are allocated channel 53 for digital, but it isn't active yest and I wonder if it will be. Maybe they might 'lease' space somewhere.

I expect to see ATSC tuners manufactured for the US market that only receive channels up to 51, just like we no longer see tuners go up to 83 nowadays. Canada is a much smaller market than the US, and I don't see manufacturers doing non-standard tuners just for us.

But, it really doesn't cost any less to manufacture to limit the top end to 51 instead of 69, so why bother changing it unless the FCC won't allow type acceptance of tuners about 51.

Before anyone starts yelling and screaming about "remember WNED", I should point out that you CAN get away with ONE SDTV subchannel without hurting the high-def channel. It's when you try to do 2 SDTV sub-channels, like WNED, in addition to a high-def channel, that you run into problems.

Then why isn't there a issue with ABC as WKBW is running two sub channels?? Has anyone compared the quality of the Rochester PBS affilate and WNED??

This will take away 1 digital channel when it cuts over.

Regarding your comments for WNGS, CITV & CKXT, what do you mean "take away"??

A major driving force for the digital switchover in the USA has been the US government's dreams of big money to be made auctioning off the spectrum formerly occupied by channels 52..69.

Something/someone has to pay for Bushs' & Cheneys' war.

[videobruce]

WPXJ has requested channel 23 for its digital assignment for the switchover.

Where/when was this??
This is NOT good news, at least for me or anyone else within 10 or 12 miles of Gilligans Island.