Rogers STB issues (Ground Loop)

[tconn101]

I just got a Rogers 3250HD STB the other day. I originally callibrated it to my new LG 37" LCD. Today I upgraded to a 42". The LG 42LB4D. The picture is much better on SD than the 37"; However, I noticed when I go to an HD channel, I get a very light hard to see lines constantly moving up. (kind of like a a refresh rate flicker - but slower). Since this TV is much bigger than the last, I don't know if it was present before, but I don't think so. I don't think it's the TV. SD stations don't do it, and Xbox 360 doesn't do it for games either (as far as I can see). Though it could be the TV.....
I didn't re set-up the STB for the new TV because the new LG tv has the same resolution specs as the last (480i/480p/720p/1080i). Should I have set up the STB again?
Any ideas?
LG 42LB4D (120 hrz)
STB - Rogers 3250HD (hooked up via component)
XBOX 36 - (Hooked up via component)

[jlet]

Does it do that on both component video inputs? Does it do that on an HDMI input (you will need an HDMI to DVI cable)? Does it do that to both 720p and 1080i HD channels? Note: On Rogers, ABC-HD, Fox-HD and PBS-HD use 720p.

[tconn101]

I don't have an HDMI/DVI cable to test that. It doesn't do it on component input 2 (Xbox) I have to check to see if it is happening in both 720p and 1081i. I will get back to you on that. Off the top of your head, any ideas? Just curious.

[57]

You have a ground loop problem. The cable to your home, or somewhere in your system is not properly grounded, or some equipment is not properly grounded, or you have ingress to your cables - make sure they're secure. See:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=72116

[tconn101]

I fianlly had a chance to play around with the problem. I tried hooking up the STB to my other component input. The lines were still there, but not as noticable. I then tried my XBOX360 to both component (1 & 2) Well, here is the issue. I can see the lines on static menu screens with the XBOX too. They are very faint, but they are 100% there. It is MUCH more noticable watching T.V via the STB. Do you think I have a grounding issue for all my components? If it wasn't for the 360 suffering from the same issue I would think it was the STB. It randomly shuts off. When changing channels from SD to HD there is not only the standard lag, but the screen goes very gittery, and in some cases, switches back to the original SD channel, like it was unable to display the HD format. It just seems like too many things, Maybe it's the TV. This all started when I got it. I just don't want to haul it back, and get another to discover it was fine and there is another issue all together. But I am suspicious

[57]

If you disconnect the STB completely from the TV, does the Xbox still show the lines? Then it might be a grounding issue on the TV. Plug the TV only into a different circuit of the home - you may need an extension.

Regarding the STB issues - check your signal strength, the advanced setup wizard and the set picture format under settings. See:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=17719 SA STB.

And: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=57741 helpful newbie post

[tconn101]

Thanks a lot for all the suggestions. Yes. I was testing each device (STB or XBOX) independenly. One then the other, compenent one, then compenent two. I also made sure to set the picture settings identical for both devices. So it would be an unbiased test.
I did try cable directly into the T.V poor quaility, but no lines. I also hooked up the gear via an extension cord to another wall socket, plus just the T.V, still got the lines.
I think I can rule out the actual component connections on my LCD. Both #1 & #2 display the lines. I can pretty much rule out a T.V issue. In fact as I write this my heat came on and my T.V dimmed and had a very slight gitter to it. I am going to get my buddy who is an electrician to come by and test ALL my wall sockets. My guess is it's either interference/grounding issues, or the STB, though starting to think the STB is fine. I just recently had rogers over to get home phone/digital package. They replaced all my cable lines, even the line from the pole to the house. They also tested the levels, and they were perfect, so I think the cable is OK. It is a very minor issue, that most people would not even notice, but I can, and the big screen doesn't help to point out issues like this. After spending so much money, it's bugging me

[tconn101]

Well, I have not solved the problem yet. I was wondering if it was banding? I am getting very faint (sometimes light green or white) horizontal lines constanly going up) This is mostly apparant when watching HD channels). I noticed a scratch in my T.V so I had it replaced. The new T.V does the same horizontal lines. I can confirm that it does definately do it when using my XBOX 360. So my hope of it being a cable grounding issues seems doubtful. I had a electrician friend check it out, and he could not find an electrical problem, so I am at square one again. I guess it is the the model of T.V. I did notice last night at the end of a movie on the HD (TMN) movie channel, the black screen credits were rolling, and I could see VERY clearly the lines, then the screen went darker on it's own, and the lines were gone. It was like the contrast was raised, and brightness taken down, but I didn't touch anything. I switched channels, then went back, and it was back to normal. The last T.V did this darker than lighter too. (I actually thought my eyes were playing tricks on me) Anyone hear of issues with the LG 42LB4D (120 hrz)
or STB - Rogers 3250HD (hooked up via component) or XBOX 36 - (Hooked up via component) doing this?
I am going to ground the cable, but I have a feeling this will do nothing.

[57]

Banding is a problem with the TV related to a static bar due to production issues, not a moving bar. I still believe it's a ground loop. Perhaps once you have properly grounded the cable, or perhaps run it through a grounded power bar, the problem will be solved, although the latter is a band aid solution to a real problem which should be fixed. I'm surprised your friend didn't find an issue. Good luck.

What you were seeing at the end of the movie was one of the automatic settings on your TV which adjusts contrast or the backlight on the TV. With a proper setup of the TV, these settings should be turned off or minimized so that you don't encounter these changes in the image.

Please see: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=76161

And the newbie link in post 6.

[tconn101]

You are 100% right. The settings were on for the automatic contrast. I had turned them off and properlly set up the video settings (As described in your HDTV set-up guide). I must have ininvertantly turned them back on. THANKS!

Well, I just talked to my friend the electrician, and all he did was check to see if my home thearter set-up was running all on one seperate circiut. (it is) He said that was a must. He had not brought his testing equipment, which he is going to do this week. Also, he agrees with you, he thinks it's still a grounding issue. He said it's 100% an interferance problem. So we are going to ground the cable first, then if needed go from there.
I really appreciate your assistance. It's very helpful.

[tconn101]

57 - THANKS! you were right. This morning I bought a ground loop clamp, and grounded my rogers cable. I also bought a high end fully grounded/surge protector, for all my A/V gear. The horizontal lines are gone. Not only that, but the picture looks even better than before, and it looked awesome on both HD and SD before I made the fixes. I could not be happier with the results. Finally I am seeing what my set-up can actually do. It's amazing. You give really fantasic advise, that has helps so many people (including me) Thanks very much!

The last two weeks I have learned a lot, and I look forward to helping other newbies on the site.

[dts]

An ground loop isolator that work should cost about $15.

Also, a GOOD line conditioner and surge/spike protector with a good power cord will certainly improve the picture quality and performance of your AV system. Just hope that you didn't buy the overpriced Monstor stuff!!!

[tconn101]

Ya, you are right. In fact the ground loop was even a bit cheaper than that, it helps to have a friend who is an electrician. Also, I could not agree more with you on spending too much for a "Name brand" like Monster for a surge protector too. I worked too many years in the computer business to be scamed. Mine was very resonable, and seems to be doing the job.
Thanks

[tconn101]

hmm, I guess I was a little premature on my problem being solved. After grounding the cable. (I connected a wire from the cable splitter's ground screw to my water pipe with a ground clamp (an electrician showed me which pipe to use) Anyway there was improvement. However, I realise now the problem of faint horizontal lines is still there, sometimes more than other times. Also, it seems way more obvious playing my xbox 360, I swear it's actually has gotten worse, definatly worse than watching SD and HD T.V. Should I buy a ground loop isolator and line conditioner as mentioned from a post by dts. Something that can ground ALL my equipment. If so, what kind/model, and where do I get them?

**Also of note this only seems to happen with my component inputs. When playing my Wii using SD A/V cables, I see zero interferance. FYI the TV was replaced once, both exibited the same issues, so I doubt it is the TV itself.

[57]

Sorry to hear the problem is not resolved. Here's the power bar thread:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=56058