PS3 now with Profile 1.1 Support (Update now Available) - Page 2 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

jvincent · 2007-12-10, 04:52 PM

IIRC the big Folding performance is because of the way they are using the graphics processor as part of the process.

Don't forget that inside the PS3 is a fancy RSX graphics chip, essentially a DX10 processor from Nvidia. I can't remember which flavour of commercial chip from Nvidia it equates to.

This of course doesn't mean that they can't simply send two streams to the GPU and still have enough horsepower.

U · 2007-12-10, 04:57 PM

According to the FAQ it uses the cell and is halfway between the GPU client and the CPU client in terms of speed.

http://folding.stanford.edu/English/FAQ-PS3

In any case, it still doesn't answer the questions about video/audio stream processing...

SensualPoet · 2007-12-10, 06:40 PM

Here's a thought. Let's assume the PS3 can do Profile 1.1 Bonus View with a firmware upgrade. Given the multi-purpose computer guts of a PS3 that seems very reasonable to me -- even if 40 GB dumbed down PS3s turn out to be exempt. (I'm not saying they are; let's assume they will be Profile 1.1 without any problem.)

It means that, at a stroke, call it Jan 1, 2.7 million PS3s will be capable of playing Blu-ray Profile 1.1 Bonus View discs -- and some 800,000, if we accept the 30% common view, are attached to and play Blu-ray Profile 1.0 content today.

That will be a fine day for Sony -- a disc or two from Sony Studios of Profile 1.1 in market and a nice installed base ready for the features. It will please other studios releasing Profile 1.1 as well -- an instant market.

But what about Samsung, Panasonic, Sharp, Pioneer, LG with Profile 1.0 players on retail shelves, in warehouses and elsewhere in the distribution channels? For that matter, what about Sony BDP-S300 or S500 players?

As things stand, the day PS3 goes Profile 1.1 with a simple download, every CE standalone player becomes "obsolete". Sure, Sony does ok: they've protected their PS3 customers. But who will want to buy a Samsung or Sharp Blu-ray player stuck forever in Profile 1.0 mode in January with new software on the market it can't, and never will, play? These players typically sell for $399 through $499; a PS3, for $399 or less.

Will Sony trump all its partners again when Profile 2.0 comes out? Effectively, with a download, making all Profile 1.1 players obsolete?

And here's the most interesting bit ... Sony has yet to announce a Profile 1.1 stand alone player yet BDA partners such as Samsung and Panasonic have just launched such players. Even Samsung is hedging its bets with its Profile 1.1 player also being a fully fledged HD DVD player with an HQV Reon chipset for DVD.

Tough times ahead for any CE or major retailer holding significant stocks of Profile 1.0 players in warehouses, it seems to me.

99semaj · 2007-12-10, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensualPoet

Tough times ahead for any CE or major retailer holding significant stocks of Profile 1.0 players in warehouses, it seems to me.

I'm sure they'll do something similar to what Toshiba did...take a massive writedown on obsolete inventory and blow it out at $99 through retail.

SensualPoet · 2007-12-10, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 99semaj

I'm sure they'll do something similar to what Toshiba did...take a massive writedown on obsolete inventory and blow it out at $99 through retail.

Yes, I absolutely agree that is precisely what will happen.

And when Sharp, Panasonic, Pioneer, Samsung and LG write off their inventories, and every cent of R&D spent on Prifle 1.0, what will they replace them with? Will they bother to replace them? BD Live 2.0 is coming "soon" ... why would any of these CE folks issue a 1.1 player? The PS3s in market already will trump them before they are out of the gate. Better, perhaps, to look at other CE gadgets to manufacture ... 2.0 Blu-ray players; HD DVD players; dual format players ... or, perhaps, electronic picture frames where their "partner" isn't pulling all the strings and keeping all the gravy to itself.

99semaj · 2007-12-10, 09:49 PM

Well, given that it's a consortium, everybody had the specs at the same time, and all mfrs had the ability to either opt for planned obsolescence or to future-proof their product. I really don't think the other partners in the BDA are getting unexpected surprises.

If this hardware upgrade were enough to turn off the BDA partners, can you just imagine how the HD-DVD partners think about Toshiba's lowballing?

Oh, and for the record, I think Profile 1.1 / PiP / whatever-the-HD DVD-equivalent is called is pretty dull at best.

darrylr · 2007-12-10, 09:51 PM

Hopefully someone will have the disc that is already out in Germany that has 1.1 content on it to test with the PS3 once the firmware updates goes live.

SensualPoet · 2007-12-10, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 99semaj

Well, given that it's a consortium, everybody had the specs at the same time, and all mfrs had the ability to either opt for planned obsolescence or to future-proof their product. I really don't think the other partners in the BDA are getting unexpected surprises.

Nice spin, semaj.

"Cartel" is another word for consortium, under the circumstances.

Blu-ray BDA is all about fixing prices to ensure CE hardware pricing stays high so everyone can make a profit while the consumer, who obviously will eventually adopt HD, migrates from 480i to 1080p. BDA has publicly complained about CE prices dropping too quickly and both pooh-poohed and lambasted Toshiba/Venturer for pursuing such a corporate trajectory. Imagine selling hidef CE product at $199 and still making a profit! Egads! What old boys club/cartel do you belong to, Toshiba?

The BDA is all about ensuring the same specs are adhered to by all players ... except, oops, Sony, which gets a "get out of jail free" pass because it also has a computer PS3 in market which can be upgraded on the fly to put all BDA partners out of business merely by changing software specs with a free firmware download. Oh well: that's showbiz, boys!

Partners? Or chumps? This is a battle between HD DVD and Blu-ray, Toshiba and Sony ... all other "170 Blu-ray CE manufacturers" are obviously pawns -- including Panasonic, Sharp, Samsung, LG and all others who don't also own movie studios.

darrylr · 2007-12-10, 10:09 PM

Clearly the BDA represents all that is evil in this world and Toshiba is the fellowship that will provide us all with salvation.

SensualPoet · 2007-12-10, 10:14 PM

Nice one, DarryR. But ask yourself: If you were Samsung, would Sony be your best buddy?

shabbs · 2007-12-10, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darrylr

Clearly the BDA represents all that is evil in this world and Toshiba is the fellowship that will provide us all with salvation.

I heard that every time you buy a Blu-ray player, a puppy is killed and every time you buy an HD DVD player, an angel gets it's wings. How can you argue with logic like that?

james99 · 2007-12-10, 10:44 PM

It's a Wonderful Life.

99semaj · 2007-12-10, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensualPoet

Nice spin, semaj. [snip]

Wow. Sorry, ma'am, you obviously give a much bigger damn about this than I do

SensualPoet · 2007-12-10, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 99semaj

Wow. Sorry, ma'am, you obviously give a much bigger damn about this than I do

Quote:

Originally Posted by 99semaj

Well, given that it's a consortium, everybody had the specs at the same time, and all mfrs had the ability to either opt for planned obsolescence

I admire your forgiveness of gazillion dollar mutli-national corporations picking your pockets "eyes wide open" every season. I don't share your comfortable acquiescence.

I kinda, sorta, expect the brand-name CE "host" to be selling me something I can use in 2007, 2008 and, possibly, 2009. I used the TV I bought in 1983 into the mid-1990s. I hope the TVs I have bought since 2005 will still be performing everyday duties well part 2010.

Maybe your standards are different. You like to write Sony a cheque so you can stand still.

Does "planned obsolescence" excuse PS3 "firmware" making 300,000 Blu-ray players obsolete over night? Well, perhaps it does ... if you own a PS3.

What has Toshiba done for Gen 1 and Gen 2 owners when Gen 3 debuted less than 18 months after Gen 1? It upgraded most players to full Gen 3 feature set. Yet 100% of Gen 1 (Profile 1.0) Blu-ray are obsolete the moment Sony issues a PS3 "firmware update".

Choose your poison: a CE which only looks after one model and abandons eveyr consumer of the same generation and even every single one of its own brand-name users who had the misfortune of not buying a PS3 ... or another CE which has proven, through action, to update every player as the technology evolves ... AND DELIVERED Blu-ray 2.0 technology to EVERY Apr 2006 player still two years before Blu-ray has delivered a single 2.0 player to market.

polaris · 2007-12-10, 11:56 PM

SensualPoet, you claim semaj99 spun a lot in this thread, but I have to say you are doing the same with some sensational statements.

'cartel'
'price fixing'

Samsung is being investigated for anti consumer practices so I really about they would be involved with something like that right now. Pretty much every company has a skeleton in the closet when it comes to this anyway, but we are seeing in the past few days BD player prices falling sharply for NEW units. Panasonic deal with there HDTV on their new player, and Samsung has dropped the MSRP of the dual format player by a hige amount also.

BTW from what I understand, Blu-ray 2.0 is the same as 1.1 but requires at least 1GB of storage space and a network adapter. All PS3's have these, so a PS3 will be 2.0 once it gets the so called 1.1 update. Mind blowing!

I concede the issue around 1.0 players not being able to update to 1.1 being disapointing, but early adopters should know what they are getting into IMO. The players were over $500 so if you didnt do your research, you cant blame anyone else.

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2007-12-10, 04:52 PM	#16
jvincent Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ottawa Posts: 5,371	IIRC the big Folding performance is because of the way they are using the graphics processor as part of the process. Don't forget that inside the PS3 is a fancy RSX graphics chip, essentially a DX10 processor from Nvidia. I can't remember which flavour of commercial chip from Nvidia it equates to. This of course doesn't mean that they can't simply send two streams to the GPU and still have enough horsepower.

2007-12-10, 04:57 PM	#17
U Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,488	According to the FAQ it uses the cell and is halfway between the GPU client and the CPU client in terms of speed. http://folding.stanford.edu/English/FAQ-PS3 In any case, it still doesn't answer the questions about video/audio stream processing...

2007-12-10, 06:40 PM	#18
SensualPoet Veteran Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Downtown Toronto • Toshiba 52XL177 • HD DVD Toshiba • Rogers HDPVR Cisco 8642 Posts: 2,886	Here's a thought. Let's assume the PS3 can do Profile 1.1 Bonus View with a firmware upgrade. Given the multi-purpose computer guts of a PS3 that seems very reasonable to me -- even if 40 GB dumbed down PS3s turn out to be exempt. (I'm not saying they are; let's assume they will be Profile 1.1 without any problem.) It means that, at a stroke, call it Jan 1, 2.7 million PS3s will be capable of playing Blu-ray Profile 1.1 Bonus View discs -- and some 800,000, if we accept the 30% common view, are attached to and play Blu-ray Profile 1.0 content today. That will be a fine day for Sony -- a disc or two from Sony Studios of Profile 1.1 in market and a nice installed base ready for the features. It will please other studios releasing Profile 1.1 as well -- an instant market. But what about Samsung, Panasonic, Sharp, Pioneer, LG with Profile 1.0 players on retail shelves, in warehouses and elsewhere in the distribution channels? For that matter, what about Sony BDP-S300 or S500 players? As things stand, the day PS3 goes Profile 1.1 with a simple download, every CE standalone player becomes "obsolete". Sure, Sony does ok: they've protected their PS3 customers. But who will want to buy a Samsung or Sharp Blu-ray player stuck forever in Profile 1.0 mode in January with new software on the market it can't, and never will, play? These players typically sell for $399 through $499; a PS3, for $399 or less. Will Sony trump all its partners again when Profile 2.0 comes out? Effectively, with a download, making all Profile 1.1 players obsolete? And here's the most interesting bit ... Sony has yet to announce a Profile 1.1 stand alone player yet BDA partners such as Samsung and Panasonic have just launched such players. Even Samsung is hedging its bets with its Profile 1.1 player also being a fully fledged HD DVD player with an HQV Reon chipset for DVD. Tough times ahead for any CE or major retailer holding significant stocks of Profile 1.0 players in warehouses, it seems to me.

2007-12-10, 09:49 PM	#21
99semaj Veteran Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: /dev/null Posts: 2,687	Well, given that it's a consortium, everybody had the specs at the same time, and all mfrs had the ability to either opt for planned obsolescence or to future-proof their product. I really don't think the other partners in the BDA are getting unexpected surprises. If this hardware upgrade were enough to turn off the BDA partners, can you just imagine how the HD-DVD partners think about Toshiba's lowballing? Oh, and for the record, I think Profile 1.1 / PiP / whatever-the-HD DVD-equivalent is called is pretty dull at best.

2007-12-10, 09:51 PM	#22
darrylr Veteran Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Nepean, Ontario Posts: 2,980	Hopefully someone will have the disc that is already out in Germany that has 1.1 content on it to test with the PS3 once the firmware updates goes live.

2007-12-10, 10:09 PM	#24
darrylr Veteran Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Nepean, Ontario Posts: 2,980	Clearly the BDA represents all that is evil in this world and Toshiba is the fellowship that will provide us all with salvation.

2007-12-10, 10:14 PM	#25
SensualPoet Veteran Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Downtown Toronto • Toshiba 52XL177 • HD DVD Toshiba • Rogers HDPVR Cisco 8642 Posts: 2,886	Nice one, DarryR. But ask yourself: If you were Samsung, would Sony be your best buddy?

2007-12-10, 10:44 PM	#27
james99 Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Burlington Posts: 24,791	It's a Wonderful Life.

2007-12-10, 11:56 PM	#30
polaris Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Vancouver Posts: 1,314	SensualPoet, you claim semaj99 spun a lot in this thread, but I have to say you are doing the same with some sensational statements. 'cartel' 'price fixing' Samsung is being investigated for anti consumer practices so I really about they would be involved with something like that right now. Pretty much every company has a skeleton in the closet when it comes to this anyway, but we are seeing in the past few days BD player prices falling sharply for NEW units. Panasonic deal with there HDTV on their new player, and Samsung has dropped the MSRP of the dual format player by a hige amount also. BTW from what I understand, Blu-ray 2.0 is the same as 1.1 but requires at least 1GB of storage space and a network adapter. All PS3's have these, so a PS3 will be 2.0 once it gets the so called 1.1 update. Mind blowing! I concede the issue around 1.0 players not being able to update to 1.1 being disapointing, but early adopters should know what they are getting into IMO. The players were over $500 so if you didnt do your research, you cant blame anyone else.