TiVo Available in Canada - Page 5 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

faston · 2007-11-27, 03:26 PM

Hopefully it will have some success up here (despite the reservations expressed in this thread). Then maybe they would be in a position to get the cable companies to look at CableCard (and my Tivo HD would really rock!). It would really become a viable alternative to the cable companies' STB's.

chemie2 · 2007-11-27, 06:37 PM

$199 for the 80-gig bix.. What a great deal...of course, you can get the same box in the US for $99 according to their web site. Great Canadian pricing...but oh, you pay US dollars for the monthly service fee.

opsdl · 2007-11-27, 06:49 PM

Tivo doesn't do HD?

I'll pass - even if it was free.

opsdl · 2007-11-27, 07:04 PM

I totally agree with you. IR blasters? Yuck! Rogers PVR interface? Yuck!

What we want is just one HD box from our service provider with a Tivo or Tivo-like interface. But I still wouldn't be willing to pay the extra monthly fee.

(In response to salinger's post)

SensualPoet · 2007-11-27, 09:21 PM

Perhaps we can step back a moment. TiVo products were previously available to Canadian residents if you were willing to purchase from the US and accept no Canadian warranty or service. The guide data was available in some places, such as Toronto, via dial-up; and, of course, broadband was available.

TiVo has now sourced a Canadian dealer -- Best Buy / Future Shop -- to carry one of their products, the Series 2 Dual (Analog) Tuner 80 GB box. It cannot record from OTA (antenna); it can accept two analog cable feeds (a splitter is included in the kit) giving you access, on a typical cable system, to channels 2 to 59 (which you have to subscribe to, of course); it can only accept one Digital cable input, which it converts to analog and delivers over RCA composite plug to your TV; it can only accept one Satellite input, and again converts to analog and delivers to your TV over an RCA plug.

To be clear: with Digital Cable or Satellite, this "dual tuner" unit can only access one tuner; the other will always be unused unless you also have an analog cable feed. If you subscribe to Animal Planet, National Geographic, Leafs TV or Fox News, you can only get ONE at a time as these are "digital" channels.

You must purchase the box for $199 which consists of an 80 GB hard drive and two analog tuners (to handle the feed from your cable box on channel 3 and your regular analog feed channels 2 to 59). An IR blaster is included so you can have the TiVo change channels on your Digital box by sending an infra-red signal to it exactly as if you were using a remote.

You need to subscribe to the TiVo guide data at $12.95US per month, minimum 1 year contract with up to a $200 penalty for cancelling early. You will, of course, continue to pay every cent you pay to cable or satellite.

You need to connect the TiVo to your wireless network (an additional gizmo for about $50), or drag an ethernet cable to your router or hook up to a phone line and lose some functionality. As well, your TiVo will be tying up the phone line periodically dialling out to the TiVo mothership.

You can get "multi-room" TiVo networking ... using your own network and buying a second TiVo and paying an additional $9.95US/mth guide fee for the second unit. You actually have to "transfer" content from one TiVo to another before you watch it; many programs can't be transferred because of DRM.

TiVo has some nice, advanced search capabilities to help you decide what to record; a recommendation engine will fill up the drive with programs it thinks you like based on previous choices.

But is all this worth it? If you are content to watch only analog TV, it's a modest upgrade - $12.95US/mth + $250 to get the box and wireless connector. But you will still only get your original 50+ channels in analog quality ... and pay around $50+/mth. To record digital channels (in analog) you still need a digital box from your cable or satellite provider.

Cable systems now offer a LOT more TV for under $60, including On Demand, full digital signals, and lots more. A fully integrated digital cable PVR -- rented or purchased -- offers much better overall value.

TiVo is a solid US brand, and was once a cutting edge product, but today, in my opinion, is eclipsed in Canada with great digital cable options. If you do decide to invest in an SD TiVo like this ... make sure you check out the details in full -- like a 90 day warranty (remember the heart is a hard drive) vs. a cable variation with unlimited rental warranty or extended purchase warranties available.

Wayne · 2007-11-27, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensualPoet

TiVo is a solid US brand, and was once a cutting edge product, but today, in my opinion, is eclipsed in Canada with great digital cable options. If you do decide to invest in an SD TiVo like this ... make sure you check out the details in full -- like a 90 day warranty (remember the heart is a hard drive) vs. a cable variation with unlimited rental warranty or extended purchase warranties available.

Two things here:

1) While I agree that the digital cable options are great, the PVR options from Rogers are not. The SA8300HD is a weak product and there is no option for HD since Rogers will not allow us cable cards.

2) Extended warranties generally do not make economic sense. First rule of insurance is don't buy the insurance if you can afford the loss as the insurance company has to make a profit margin. The only time you should ever buy the insurance is if the $200 replacement cost is a lot of money for you or you think the extended warranty is WAY underpriced. I believe that TiVo will likely send you a new unit if you are having problems anyway. Many (most?) of us here have thousands tied up in our HT setups, $200 is relatively small - some spend more than that on Monster cables.

DeanN · 2007-11-27, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladybugblue

I think most people can't afford HDTV yet because it isn't just getting the TV, but new cable boxes in most cases, more programming, and maybe even a blue ray/HD DVD and then new DVDs. This can be thousands of dollars and I would argue most people aren't there yet.

Price of HDTV sets are dropping rapidly, so I'd like to disagree with you. Without HD, in one word, TiVo enters the Canadian market too late. Who wants to buy the old gadget when you can afford more advanced commodities with the same money? However, I wish best luck for those buying TiVo. For me, it's not an option anymore!

ladybugblue · 2007-11-28, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeanN

Price of HDTV sets are dropping rapidly, so I'd like to disagree with you. Without HD, in one word, TiVo enters the Canadian market too late. Who wants to buy the old gadget when you can afford more advanced commodities with the same money? However, I wish best luck for those buying TiVo. For me, it's not an option anymore!

I disagree, most people I know don't have HDTV, in fact I can maybe count two people I know of that have it. According to this link (http://broadcastengineering.com/hdtv...s-canada-0327/) it is a lot lower than most people on this site think. Now I know this is a tech savy site with the most up to date users but that is not the typical user.

Also, I have yet to see one post that outline what you can do with the other Roger, Shaw etc. PVRs that you can't do with Tivo. I don't think any of the pvrs allow you to download and burn content onto DVDs. They don't have online scheduling, or wishlists. What do they have that tivo doesn't have OTHER than HDTV? Forgetting the HDTV, what other products are even remotely comparable? Or is it really the monthly fee? If all you want is HDTV this Tivo unit isn't for you, but if not what other options are there?

Wayne · 2007-11-28, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladybugblue

Also, I have yet to see one post that outline what you can do with the other Roger, Shaw etc. PVRs that you can't do with Tivo. I don't think any of the pvrs allow you to download and burn content onto DVDs. They don't have online scheduling, or wishlists. What do they have that tivo doesn't have OTHER than HDTV? Forgetting the HDTV, what other products are even remotely comparable? Or is it really the monthly fee? If all you want is HDTV this Tivo unit isn't for you, but if not what other options are there?

I agree with you that the cable boxes are inferior products but what can they do other than HD that cable boxes can't? (My comments pertain to users using set top boxes as you are WAY behind the times if you don't have a cable or satellite box)

1) Multiple tuners for digital cable/sat
2) Much simpler setup - no additional cabling to go from cable box to TiVo to TV and Receiver, no IR blaster. Also no risk of not recording because your cable box rebooted overnight and is now shut off.

Personally I use MCE for all non-HD content and HD OTA content and my SA8300HD for HD cable content. I would love to be able to use MCE for everything.

classicsat · 2007-11-28, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ladybugblue

Also, I have yet to see one post that outline what you can do with the other Roger, Shaw etc. PVRs that you can't do with Tivo.

Apart form HD (which is important to some), a provider offers direct digital recording, dual tuner digital recording (the Series 2 DT can only record one digital channel, the other must be analog cable), built in guide from the provider (you have to externally acquire the TiVo guide with a phone or network connection), as well as instant swap from your provider, since they will likely have a local place you can go to (I don't know how that works if you purchased the box though).

Other things:
You need not pay $199. Only if you buy one of the retail boxes you do (if it stays there). You can always buy a second hand Series 2 box, or go cross border shopping, where the same unit typically retails for $99US.

On Analog cable mode, TiVos are capable of tuning to CH99, not 59.

The fee isn't a guide fee, it is a service fee which covers more than guide data.

Although the HDD is the vulnerable piece, it is relatively easily replaced or upgraded for higher capacity.

gcclubs · 2007-11-29, 08:12 PM

can someone clarify if I have Shaw digital cable and a HD program comes on it is the TIVO cannot record it at all? Or can it be recorded but just at a lower quality level. My wife wants Tivo and she normally records on vcr tape so anything is going to be an upgrade from that

whitbyterry · 2007-11-29, 10:10 PM

I would think the TIVO would not be able to interpret the signal. However, you can just record on the non-HD version of the channel.

57 · 2007-11-30, 12:07 AM

I'm assuming that the STB would be connected to the TiVo via an SD connection, like S-video plus analogue audio - same as a VCR/DVD Recorder. The HDSTB will downconvert the signal to 480i and you should then be able to record it on the TiVo.

If it's a true HD programme, the image will be 16:9 on the TiVo, if it's an upconvert 4:3 programme, the image will be "postage stamped" with black bars all around, in which case it would be better to record the equivalent SD channel, if available.

gcclubs · 2007-11-30, 10:45 AM

Now that Tivo is offically here in Canada I am considering buying a unit. I downloaded the install instructions from the US and they recommend using a network (wired or wireless) over a phone line.

My wireless connection in my house seems unstable and I would think the phone line would therefore be preferred.

Any downside to using the phone line?

faston · 2007-11-30, 12:59 PM

The phone line works fine. I used the phone for a couple of years with my Series 1 Tivo before I put in an ethernet card and hacked it so it could get the listings through a wireless bridge. The call is local (always has been even though they are just now officially supporting Tivo in Canada) and only takes a couple of minutes. It only calls in I think every 30 hours or so, which is fine for listings but obviously would not be good if you want to use the online scheduling since it would be up to 30 hours for it to give your Tivo recording instructions.

To the previous poster: It would not record HD but would record all your analog channels up to 99 or so. It would still be a huge step up from VCR!

2007-11-27, 06:49 PM	#63
opsdl Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ottawa. Posts: 80	Tivo doesn't do HD? I'll pass - even if it was free. __________________ SA8300HD with Nspire 52446 and WD3200KS. \| Pioneer PDP-5070HD \| Mirage UNI-Theater + Paradigm \| Yamaha RX-V1700

2007-11-27, 07:04 PM	#64
opsdl Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ottawa. Posts: 80	I totally agree with you. IR blasters? Yuck! Rogers PVR interface? Yuck! What we want is just one HD box from our service provider with a Tivo or Tivo-like interface. But I still wouldn't be willing to pay the extra monthly fee. (In response to salinger's post) __________________ SA8300HD with Nspire 52446 and WD3200KS. \| Pioneer PDP-5070HD \| Mirage UNI-Theater + Paradigm \| Yamaha RX-V1700 Last edited by opsdl; 2007-11-27 at 07:06 PM. Reason: Didn't quote

2007-11-30, 12:07 AM	#73
57 Moderator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto, Rogers, 8300HD, eHDD, Panasonic TCP65S1, Denon AVR4310Ci; 8300HD, eHDD & Sony KDL40W3000 Posts: 50,340	I'm assuming that the STB would be connected to the TiVo via an SD connection, like S-video plus analogue audio - same as a VCR/DVD Recorder. The HDSTB will downconvert the signal to 480i and you should then be able to record it on the TiVo. If it's a true HD programme, the image will be 16:9 on the TiVo, if it's an upconvert 4:3 programme, the image will be "postage stamped" with black bars all around, in which case it would be better to record the equivalent SD channel, if available. __________________ 57's Home Theatre (Latest equipment & photos) 57's Optimization Services (Home Theatre Optimization)

2007-11-30, 10:45 AM	#74
gcclubs Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 6	Tivo & Phone Line Now that Tivo is offically here in Canada I am considering buying a unit. I downloaded the install instructions from the US and they recommend using a network (wired or wireless) over a phone line. My wireless connection in my house seems unstable and I would think the phone line would therefore be preferred. Any downside to using the phone line?

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2007-11-27, 03:26 PM	#61
faston Veteran Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 1,545	Hopefully it will have some success up here (despite the reservations expressed in this thread). Then maybe they would be in a position to get the cable companies to look at CableCard (and my Tivo HD would really rock!). It would really become a viable alternative to the cable companies' STB's.

2007-11-27, 06:37 PM	#62
chemie2 Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 23	$199 for the 80-gig bix.. What a great deal...of course, you can get the same box in the US for $99 according to their web site. Great Canadian pricing...but oh, you pay US dollars for the monthly service fee.

2007-11-27, 09:21 PM	#65
SensualPoet Veteran Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Downtown Toronto • Toshiba 52XL177 • HD DVD Toshiba • Rogers HDPVR Cisco 8642 Posts: 2,886	Perhaps we can step back a moment. TiVo products were previously available to Canadian residents if you were willing to purchase from the US and accept no Canadian warranty or service. The guide data was available in some places, such as Toronto, via dial-up; and, of course, broadband was available. TiVo has now sourced a Canadian dealer -- Best Buy / Future Shop -- to carry one of their products, the Series 2 Dual (Analog) Tuner 80 GB box. It cannot record from OTA (antenna); it can accept two analog cable feeds (a splitter is included in the kit) giving you access, on a typical cable system, to channels 2 to 59 (which you have to subscribe to, of course); it can only accept one Digital cable input, which it converts to analog and delivers over RCA composite plug to your TV; it can only accept one Satellite input, and again converts to analog and delivers to your TV over an RCA plug. To be clear: with Digital Cable or Satellite, this "dual tuner" unit can only access one tuner; the other will always be unused unless you also have an analog cable feed. If you subscribe to Animal Planet, National Geographic, Leafs TV or Fox News, you can only get ONE at a time as these are "digital" channels. You must purchase the box for $199 which consists of an 80 GB hard drive and two analog tuners (to handle the feed from your cable box on channel 3 and your regular analog feed channels 2 to 59). An IR blaster is included so you can have the TiVo change channels on your Digital box by sending an infra-red signal to it exactly as if you were using a remote. You need to subscribe to the TiVo guide data at $12.95US per month, minimum 1 year contract with up to a $200 penalty for cancelling early. You will, of course, continue to pay every cent you pay to cable or satellite. You need to connect the TiVo to your wireless network (an additional gizmo for about $50), or drag an ethernet cable to your router or hook up to a phone line and lose some functionality. As well, your TiVo will be tying up the phone line periodically dialling out to the TiVo mothership. You can get "multi-room" TiVo networking ... using your own network and buying a second TiVo and paying an additional $9.95US/mth guide fee for the second unit. You actually have to "transfer" content from one TiVo to another before you watch it; many programs can't be transferred because of DRM. TiVo has some nice, advanced search capabilities to help you decide what to record; a recommendation engine will fill up the drive with programs it thinks you like based on previous choices. But is all this worth it? If you are content to watch only analog TV, it's a modest upgrade - $12.95US/mth + $250 to get the box and wireless connector. But you will still only get your original 50+ channels in analog quality ... and pay around $50+/mth. To record digital channels (in analog) you still need a digital box from your cable or satellite provider. Cable systems now offer a LOT more TV for under $60, including On Demand, full digital signals, and lots more. A fully integrated digital cable PVR -- rented or purchased -- offers much better overall value. TiVo is a solid US brand, and was once a cutting edge product, but today, in my opinion, is eclipsed in Canada with great digital cable options. If you do decide to invest in an SD TiVo like this ... make sure you check out the details in full -- like a 90 day warranty (remember the heart is a hard drive) vs. a cable variation with unlimited rental warranty or extended purchase warranties available.

2007-11-29, 08:12 PM	#71
gcclubs Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 6	can someone clarify if I have Shaw digital cable and a HD program comes on it is the TIVO cannot record it at all? Or can it be recorded but just at a lower quality level. My wife wants Tivo and she normally records on vcr tape so anything is going to be an upgrade from that

2007-11-29, 10:10 PM	#72
whitbyterry Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Whitby, Ontario (Rogers Cable), LG 42PC3D, 8642HD Posts: 514	I would think the TIVO would not be able to interpret the signal. However, you can just record on the non-HD version of the channel.

2007-11-30, 12:59 PM	#75
faston Veteran Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 1,545	The phone line works fine. I used the phone for a couple of years with my Series 1 Tivo before I put in an ethernet card and hacked it so it could get the listings through a wireless bridge. The call is local (always has been even though they are just now officially supporting Tivo in Canada) and only takes a couple of minutes. It only calls in I think every 30 hours or so, which is fine for listings but obviously would not be good if you want to use the online scheduling since it would be up to 30 hours for it to give your Tivo recording instructions. To the previous poster: It would not record HD but would record all your analog channels up to 99 or so. It would still be a huge step up from VCR!