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2007-11-04, 12:42 PM
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#1 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nepean (Ottawa), Ontario
Posts: 155
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Sources Of Neutral Gray Paints In Canada for DIY screen
Introduction
The ideal screen surface will reflect all wavelengths of visible light with equal efficiency. For those that want to pickup some paint from the local Home Depot or similar store the choice of gray paint is difficult. Most store staff will have no idea what you mean by neutral gray. Actually they may actually think you are talking about neutrals in the context of interior design. This is not what you want. Luckily CIL has neutral gray tints that are easy to identify. CIL is a subsiduary of ICI Paints. ICI Paints uses a color code that is universal to all it's brands world wide. The neutral gray tints all have a color code like "00NN ??/000" The ?? is a number indicating the shade of gray. The higher the number the lighter the gray. Here is a list of CIL tints that are available through any CIL or Glidden paint retailer.
Here are scans of the CIL color cards with the Munesll neutral Gray Shades cards included for reference:   More to come . . . |
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2007-11-04, 02:40 PM
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#2 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nepean (Ottawa), Ontario
Posts: 155
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CIL Paint has an interior Smart3 Wash & Wear Ultra Matte finish that would be suitable for screen surfaces. The other base that I would be inclined to try would be the CIL Endurance Exterior Flat. Typically exterior paints are more flexible, durable, and a flat exterior paint will be more like a matte interior paint.
Behr Paint Options Home Depot also sells Behr paints. Unfortunately, like the CIL paint, it is not included in the EasyRGB database. Tha leaves three possibilities as far as getting a near neutral tint in a Behr Ultra Pure White base paint. The first possibility is to simply use the CIL tint formulas in the Behr UPW base. I know that people say you cannot get the same color using the same tint formula in a different base. That is quite true. However I have found that other than shade the neutrals are a bit more forgiving in this respect. The Behr paint has more Titanium Dioxide (white pigment) than the CIL so the shade will be lighter for the same tint formula. The next option is to color match the CIL color card for a Behr tint formula. The third way is to start from a N7 tint for Behr UPW that was provided by Xrite. You can then mix it down with un-tinted UPW. Un-tinted UPW is not neutral with an RGB of 248 248 241. So as you increase the un-tinted UPW in the mix the gray will move away from a true neutral towards the RGB balance of the un-tinted UPW. However this is as it gets lighter in shade so the imbalance becomes less significant. Quart Custom TintOf the Behr UPW bases I recommend the Flat #1050 for very rough surfaces or as the base coat for a pearl clear coat screen. The Flat-Enamel #1850 has a low luster that makes it good as a one-can solution. For the best possible results and whenever painting a retractable screen I recommend the Behr Exterior ULTRA UPW Flat #4850. It is self priming, more durable, flexible, and UV resistant. It also rolls on and levels out better than the other Behr bases. I recently repainted my retractable screen with the Behr ULTRA UPW #4850. I am very pleased with the results. I used a 2 part N7 to 1 parts un-tinted mix. The color balance looks great and the waves and humps in the screen material are no longer visible in the projected image. That is an equivalent tint of: Quart Custom Tint Last edited by tiddler; 2007-11-04 at 02:54 PM. |
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2007-11-04, 02:52 PM
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#3 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nepean (Ottawa), Ontario
Posts: 155
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Additional Brand Name Near-Neutral Gray Paint Tints
Pratt & Lambert Near Neutral Tints 161 166 164 - 2241 Carolina Gull 175 175 175 - N7 176 180 177 - 2240 Minnow 192 193 190 - 2239 Gigs' Grey 198 199 195 - 2310 Armory 202 202 202 - N8 197 200 200 - 2316 Hearthstone 213 213 208 - 2238 Winter's Gate 222 218 219 - 1120 Souvenir 223 225 223 - 2315 Doverfeather 223 225 220 - 2231 Hesperia 223 226 222 - 2327 Wraith 229 229 229 - N9 228 233 230 - 1285 Sky Cloud As per Randall' Paints in Ottawa recommended C2 brand of paints that the P&L colors can be mixed in. I would stick to the actual Pratt and Lambert paints myself. The Pratt & Lambert paint is called Accolade® Interior Acrylic Latex Flat. It is described as "child-proof" so it should be fairly durable and washable. There is also the Accolade® Interior Acrylic Latex Velvet which is also said to be "child-proof". Benjamin Moore Near Neutral Tints Benjamin Moore Color Preview 171 168 166 - 2112-50 STORMY MONDAY 175 175 175 - N7 181 182 177 - HC-169 COVENTRY GRAY 196 200 200 - 2121-40 SILVER HALF DOLLAR 202 202 202 - N8 201 204 204 - 2134-60 WHITESTONE 201 203 205 - 2133-60 SIDEWALK GRAY 206 204 201 - 2112-60 CEMENT GRAY 214 218 220 - 2126-60 GRAY CLOUD 219 222 222 - 2121-50 ICED CUBE SILVER 220 222 222 - 2132-70 MINERAL ICE 220 223 224 - 2119-70 FULL MOON 223 224 223 - 2133-70 TUNDRA 223 223 225 - 2118-70 HEAVEN 223 225 224 - 2125-60 MARILYN'S DRESS 223 226 225 - 2134-70 GENESIS WHITE 229 229 229 - N9 230 232 231 - 2124-60 MISTY GRAY 232 229 230 - 2116-70 MIRAGE WHITE 231 233 231 - 2126-70 CHALK WHITE 236 237 235 - 2125-70 WEDDING VEIL 235 237 234 - 2121-60 WHITE DIAMOND 239 240 237 - 2124-70 DISTANT GRAY 241 242 238 - 2121-70 CHANTILLY LACE 239 243 239 - 2123-70 ICE MIST SICO Near Neutral Tints 175 175 175 - N7 181 186 185 - 4208-31 ABSTRACT GREY 183 183 179 - 4203-31 WARM GREY 187 185 189 - 4186-31 HALF-TONE 187 188 190 - 4209-31 OLD PEWTER 181 186 183 - 4206-31 SMOKED NICKEL 202 202 202 - N8 202 203 204 - 4209-21 SILVER REFLECTION 207 207 203 - 4203-21 GREY WOLF 210 208 209 - 4186-21 FASHION GREY 206 210 206 - 4206-21 SILVERY MOON 209 212 210 - 4208-21 SILVER SHORES 209 212 213 - 4210-21 QUIET GREY 221 222 221 - 4209-11 PELICAN 227 227 229 - 4185-11 VIOLET VEIL 229 229 229 - N9 227 229 226 - 4208-11 SNOWFIELD 230 231 229 - 4210-11 EARLY FROST True Value Trucolors 189 191 190 - 1981 WINTERS EVENING 200 201 201 - 1982 WINTER MOUNTAIN 202 202 202 - N8 216 218 216 - 1991 MIDTOWN GRAY 220 220 220 - 1983 WINTER MIST 217 220 219 - 2007 QUIET GRAY 221 222 222 - 1999 PEARL GRAY 220 224 222 - 1695 WINTER FROST 225 228 227 - 1984 CULTURED GRAY 229 229 229 - N9 226 230 230 - 1680 WHITE IVY 239 236 239 - 1624 SPOTWHITE 238 242 241 - 1464 MURMUR 243 244 239 - 67 SILVER PEARL Sherwin Williams Near Neutral Tints 165 167 163 - SW 7066 GRAY MATTERS 175 175 175 - N7 202 202 202 - N8 199 203 203 - SW 7071 GRAY SCREEN 204 205 202 - SW 7064 PASSIVE 205 203 206 - SW 6260 UNIQUE GRAY 215 218 218 - SW 6253 OLYMPUS WHITE 221 223 220 - SW 7070 SITE WHITE 221 224 224 - SW 6231 ROCK CANDY 224 224 223 - SW 6259 SPATIAL WHITE 227 227 229 - SW 6539 SOOTHING WHITE 229 229 229 - N9 229 230 227 - SW 6252 ICE CUBE 227 231 230 - SW 6518 SKI SLOPE 227 231 232 - SW 6525 RARIFIED AIR 237 237 231 - SW 7005 PURE WHITE |
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2007-11-05, 08:51 AM
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#4 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nepean (Ottawa), Ontario
Posts: 155
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Tint Visualizations
I have been compiling collections of near neutral tint visualizations in a PhotoBuckect Folder. Here are some examples from the Pratt & Lambert near neutral tints:    Click images to enlarge. |
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2007-11-05, 04:30 PM
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#5 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nepean (Ottawa), Ontario
Posts: 155
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2008-01-01, 01:25 AM
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#6 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nepean (Ottawa), Ontario
Posts: 155
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Base Paint Selection Summary
For rough surfaces a very flat latex paint is the only choice. The characteristic 180 degree viewing cone of a flat surface, causes bumps, pits, and blemishes to literally dissapear when an image is projected on it. For smoother surfaces a "flat enamel", "washable flat", or matte finish provides a bit more gain without significantly narrowing the viewing cone. There may be some brands that offer low luster sheens less than an eggshell but greater than a matte. Before using anything approaching an eggshell I would caution that it may cause hot spotting. The use of exterior paints as screen paint is advisable. Exterior paints are less likely to fade and they tend to be more durable than their interior counterparts. The following are only suggestions based on manufacturer's information available on the internet. I have only investigated the Behr products first hand. BEHR Paints
* CIL Paints (Canada)
* Glidden Paints
* DULUX Paints (Australia)
* - The Glidden Neutral Gray tint codes are applicable to all ICI Paint brands. If you can find an ICI Paint brand that is sold in your region then the neutral gray codes should be applicable. Visit the ICI Paints web page to locate their international paint brands. Valspar Paints (Available @ Lowes)
Sherwin-Williams Paints
Input from: Jeff the Painter Benjamin Moore Paints
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2008-02-19, 05:03 PM
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#7 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nepean (Ottawa), Ontario
Posts: 155
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ICI Neutral Gray Shades Color Data
I contacted ICI Paints and they have provided color data for their neutral gray shades. ICI Paints is the parent company of Glidden, CIL, and DULUX paint brands. They also have several international paint brands. They all support the tint codes displayed in these images. To find international brand from ICI Paints visit this website and use the brand locater in the lower left corner of the page. The data as provided:  Recalculated RGB Data Using EasyRGB and the Lindbloom color calculators: 
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2009-01-10, 01:16 PM
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#8 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 456
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Behr Silverscreen
I actually painted my roll up matte white screen with Behr 'silver screen' after doing a number of tests on a piece of cardboard. I find it works very well.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=390146 Behr "Silver Screen" (770E-2) mix using Ultra Pure White (UPW) flat latex Generic Formula of Behr SS: 1 gallon flat white latex base 20/48ths of Lamp Black 20/48ths of Raw Umber (a dark, murky yellow/orange-based pigment) 2/48ths of Red |
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2009-01-21, 11:16 AM
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#9 | |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nepean (Ottawa), Ontario
Posts: 155
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Behr flat UPW #1050 latex tinted "Silver Screen" (770E-2) was introduced as an off-the-shelf DIY screen paint back in 2004. It enjoyed some success but many found it caused unusual color shifting. "Purple lips" was the usual complaint. It was subsequently determined that it is not a neutral gray, and has a slight blue push to it. The blue push is not really the problem though. I suspect it does not have a smooth flat spectral reflectance curve, and that is why some people could not properly colour calibrate their projectors to it.
I was provide with a Munsell N7 neutral gray tint for Behr UPW and calculated the following custom tints for the Behr UPW base paints. Initial N7 Tint Formula {Ultra Dark Gray} Quart Custom Tint~N7.5 DIY Tint {Extra Dark Gray} Quart Custom Tint ~N8 DIY Tint {Dark Gray} Quart Custom Tint ~N8.5 DIY Tint {Medium Gray} Quart Custom Tint ~N9 DIY Tint {Light Gray} Quart Custom Tint Here is a spectral reflectance plot for the Behr 1850 Flat Enamel tinted using the ~N7.5 custom tint above.  As you can see it is very neutral and the curve is fairly smooth and flat. Just what we want in an off-the-shelf neutral gray screen paint. Comments On Behr Base Paint Selection I do not recommend the truly flat UPW #1050 base for a screen paint unless the surface is very rough. The UPW #1850 Flat Enamel is not only more durable but it has a low level sheen that enhances the white levels. My only complaint with the 1850 is that it does not level out as well as one would want for a screen paint. However you can add 1 part Minwax Satin Polycrylic to 4 parts of the Flat Enamel #1850 and get addition brightness as well as a paint that levels out to a very smooth finish. The Exterior UPW #4850 is by far my preferred UPW base paint. However despite assurances from my contact at the Behr Color Lab in California that it is safe to use it indoors, exterior paints do have higher levels of VOCs and anti-fungal agents. The characteristic of the 4850 that first caught my attention was how well it levels out. It also benefits from a 4:1 mix of Minwax Polycrylic. Adding Waterborne Satin Polyurethane I have tried many variations of DIY screen paints. Many of them have reflective particles such as mica or aluminum flakes in them. I have come full circle though and prefer a simple neutral gray latex paint enhanced with Minwax Satin Polycrylic. I have not tried it myself but I suspect the water based Varathane Satin Polyurethane will work just as well. I mention the Varathane product because, at my local Home Depot, it is available in an 250ml cans while the Minwax Satin Polycrylic is only available in 1 liter cans. However I have seen the Minwax Satin Polycrylic on sale as low as $9.99 a liter at Canadian Tire (it is usually close to $20 a liter). Here are some comments from a fellow Canadian that gave this a try: Quote:
The standard practice of applying the paint using a 1/4" nap (3/16" nap if you can find it), will result in a very smooth finish.  From all the experimenting with metallic paint mixes I developed a method that employs a normal low nap roller to apply the paint and a 6" hard foam trim roller to blend and smooth it. This requires the addition of about 10% water for best results.  If anyone is considering the Silverscreen tint, please reconsider. There are better choices and they are just as easy to get mixed as the Silverscreen proprietary tint. Don't forget that we already have neutral gray tint codes for the CIL/Dulux/Glidden/ICI paints as well. Things have come a long way since 2004. |
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2009-01-21, 01:55 PM
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#10 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 456
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Thanks tiddler.
I would like to test your Behr examples. Which one is closest in shade to the silverscreen's gray? The lightest one? I'm not sure if I should go any darker. Thanks |
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2009-01-21, 02:10 PM
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#11 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nepean (Ottawa), Ontario
Posts: 155
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The ~N8 tint is closest in shade to the Silverscreen.
Quart Custom Tint Behr UPW (1050,1850,4850) 0 8 0 Lamp Black 0 1 1 Brown Oxide 0 0 1 Medium Yellow Gallon Custom Tint Behr UPW (1050,1850,4850) 0 31 0 Lamp Black 0 07 0 Brown Oxide 0 03 0 Medium Yellow What projector do you have? What color are the walls and ceiling? What size of screen will you have? What is the throw distance? Will you want to have some ambient lighting on during use? Will any ambient lighting be directed away from the screen? |
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2009-01-21, 08:07 PM
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#12 |
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 456
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To your questions:
1. I have a BenQ W5000 and a 106" roll up screen that is painted with silverscreen. 2. The walls are a medium tan. The ceiling is white. 3. The throw distance is approximately 15' 4. There is normally no ambient light whatsoever in the room during use. My screen was originally matte white. I painted a cardboard box with some silverscreen (several coats), put it up beside the matte white, and projected some films and test patterns onto both at the same time. I liked the blacks on the silverscreen...I only wish I found this thread first. Would you recommend a darker or lighter gray? Thanks for the suggestions and this great thread. |
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2009-01-21, 08:36 PM
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#13 |
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nepean (Ottawa), Ontario
Posts: 155
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If you go to a lighter shade the blacks will not be as deep but the whites will be brighter. It all depends on what you want to improve. Just going to the Behr Ultra 4850 tinted to a similar shade, I think you will see an improvement in the whites while maintaining the black levels.
If you have not done a contrast & brightness calibration for the Silverscreen, that should be the first thing you try. Look for the THX Optimizer on one of your DVDs. I know it is on the Nemo, Cars, and Terminator II DVDs. I would not add anything to the 4850 if you choose to paint your screen with it. Adding the satin polyurethane will brighten the whites further but also narrow the viewing cone. This will lead to the visibility of the usual V waves in a retractable screen. The V waves will not show in the image with a matte finish like the Behr 4850. |
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