Warner Bros. has no plans to drop HD neutrality - Page 2 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

HT gearhead · 2007-11-04, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Considering I am getting 5 free movies and I have no plans whatsoever on purchasing any HD DVD titles (I will put some in my zip list and rent at BB though) they are totally losing money on this one for sure...

Hey that was my plan for the PS3 I just bought for my kids. Buy HDDVD for the 57 inch HDTV and only rent BD from Zip to watch on the 23 inch widescreen HDTV where the PS3 will be connected to so the kids can watch Disney bluray.

polaris · 2007-11-04, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensualPoet

HD DVD already has Toshiba, Venturer, Microsoft, Samsung, LG, Onkyo and I believe Denon -- 7, not 1.

The issue is, the major CE's wont be interested in a dedicated HD DVD unit with price points being where they are, at least they wont be for a while I would think. This is a strike against HD DVD in practical terms, even if the CE's makers you name are involved at some level, but again it can be argued they arent doing what Panasonic, Sharp, Sony and others are doing with BD.

SensualPoet · 2007-11-04, 10:48 PM

Why? Not every CE produces product at entry level. There is LOTS of margin at the medium-price $400 level. Many of these players make HDTVs and lots of people buy one brand name -- Panasonic TV + HD player; Samsung TV + HD player; LG TV + HD player; Hitachi TV + HD player; Sharp Aquos TV + HD player ... you think there isn't a market for this? The CEs might beg to differ with you.

Boduho · 2007-11-04, 11:19 PM

But that's sort of the point Sensual, they're not begging to differ, are they? There has been ample time for other CE's to get in on HD DVD and yet they haven't jumped at the chance. Are you suggesting that Toshiba's fire sell of their low end product, and their rapid decrease in price isn't part of the reason?

grog · 2007-11-05, 09:21 AM

Just because there are inexpensive entry level players available doesn't mean there is no market for mid-range or high-end players. For example, have a look at Denon's DVD player lineup:

DVD-5910CI - MSRP = $3,800 US
DVD-3930CI - MSRP = $1,499 US
DVD-2930CI - MSRP = $849 US

And these are just regular DVD players, not Blu-ray or HD DVD. By your argument there should be no market for these things since you can walk into any Walmart and snag a cheapo DVD player for $39.

Arthur Dent · 2007-11-05, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grog

Just because there are inexpensive entry level players available doesn't mean there is no market for mid-range or high-end players. For example, have a look at Denon's DVD player lineup:
DVD-5910CI - MSRP = $3,800 US
DVD-3930CI - MSRP = $1,499 US
DVD-2930CI - MSRP = $849 US
And these are just regular DVD players, not Blu-ray or HD DVD. By your argument there should be no market for these things since you can walk into any Walmart and snag a cheapo DVD player for $39.

Well, The 1.2 million Euro Bugatti Veiron car also has its market and has sold a few dozen so far worldwide. I guess the $3,800 US Denon DVD player has similar market penetration. So, you are claiming that the very fact that these items exist has any influence on the car (and respectively DVD) markets?

jvincent · 2007-11-05, 12:29 PM

The arguement against Toshiba's pricing has been that it's so low it is keeping other manufacturers out of the game whereas the BD prices make it "attractive".

Grog was merely pointing out that the fact that there is a low cost player driving the market penetration doesn't preclude the existence of high cost (very high margin) expensive players. I was going to post the Denon pricing myself but he beat me to it.

Until the volumes on either player ramp significantly, very little money is going to be made on the players.

james99 · 2007-11-05, 01:17 PM

Speaking with High-Def Digest, Jim Noonan, SVP of Strategic Promotion and Communication for Warner Home Entertainment Group said "I can tell you that Warner's position has not changed, and I know that Dan did not intend to suggest that wasn't the case. We support both formats and we have made no decision to alter that policy, nor are there any such announcements coming, or being planned."

JohnnyG · 2007-11-05, 01:37 PM

A whole lot of double-speak, I say!

They do not have to announce exclusivity in order to obviously prefer one format. That preference will become clear in the next few months, and it will be in favour of HD DVD.

That's my absolutely meaningless official position

jvincent · 2007-11-05, 01:46 PM

Being a master of corporate double speak is on the list of job requirements for an SVP of Strategic Promoion and COmmunication.

SensualPoet · 2007-11-06, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Like any major company, we are always reviewing our strategies in every aspect of our business, it is what smart companies do. I can't say what may happen five, ten years down the line. But right now, Warner Bros. has made no decision to change course. We are still onboard with both formats, and will continue [with a strong line-up of new releases and catalog titles], just as we have in the past in supporting HD DVD and Blu-ray.

That doesn't sound like "double-speak" to me. Warner has been pretty straight-forward in its support for both formats, withholding some from Blu-ray based on existing capabilities (like only one video stream) -- Batman Begins -- and some others based on the overwhelming number of Blu-ray players being PS3s and therefore some content may not, in Warner's judgment, be worth releasing in the format at this time -- Casablanca.

Warner has shown you can get decent sales, relative to the market size, with a dual format strategy at this time. Why would they change? The longer they "hold out" the more evidence they provide to all other exclusive studios that producing both formats, for at least some titles, is prudent and profitable.

JohnnyG · 2007-11-06, 09:55 AM

I disagree. The dual format situation is now holding back the potential of the market. The time has come for all studios to either support both formats, or to pick sides and force an end to this. THAT is the prudent and most profitable way to go.

Only with a clear victor will the clouds clear, the market open up, and real sales volumes begin.

SensualPoet · 2007-11-06, 06:46 PM

I think we forget it's not the studios who are really in the driver's seat.

Without players, with CE in stores, there is no format. BDA tried to create a vertical cartel to set standards, prices and roll-out but, hey, it's a big bad world out there and their plans didn't completely work out.

Long term, CE can make anything -- that's why they are CE. Nothing is stopping Hitachi, for example, producing an HD DVD player if they felt like it -- HD DVD is not a closed proprietary technology. If they think the market is for Blu-ray, fine; dual players, fine. Sticking with DVD and sitting on the sidelines, fine.

Studios, on the other hand, have even less vested interest in this format, or that, other than concerns about DRM and if any new format increases their ability to continue to sell hidef media at a premium and, better still, resell their libraries again.

Studios already "re-purpose" their titles for theatrical release, PPV, On Demand, DVD, network TV, downloads, UMD ... and now Blu-ray and HD DVD. Why not Blu-ray AND HD DVD?

Warner should be applauded for releasing as much material they have, favouring one format over the other based on its own priorities of format capabilities and current demographics. Disney and Fox should do the same. Paramount is currently sidelined; and both Universal and Sony ae sort of stuck in corporate ego to move just yet.

jvillain · 2007-11-06, 08:34 PM

If releasing on multiple forms of media is the nirvana you claim it is why aren't you bashing them for not releasing on that Chinese's format or the other no name HD formats? Why is it only important to relase on multiple formats when it means not dropping support for HD-DVD?

SensualPoet · 2007-11-06, 08:50 PM

For crying out loud. Did I say anything about nirvana? I pointed out ALL studios routinely release their product in multiple channels. That is how they monetize their investment in making the original content.

I could care less if they create Mandarin editions of their content and re-sell to Chinese HD DVD or VDM ... I'll never buy those and I don't own stock in them to benefit. My husband, maybe, would like that: but we already subscribe to Rogers Great Wall package and get nine channels in Mandarin.

I am saying studios make money releasing their content in multiple formats for whatever they deem to be good business reasons. They don't drive consumer formats; they feed them content and make money. What was your point?

2007-11-04, 11:19 PM	#19
Boduho Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Nepean, Ontario Posts: 257	But that's sort of the point Sensual, they're not begging to differ, are they? There has been ample time for other CE's to get in on HD DVD and yet they haven't jumped at the chance. Are you suggesting that Toshiba's fire sell of their low end product, and their rapid decrease in price isn't part of the reason? Last edited by Boduho; 2007-11-04 at 11:55 PM.

2007-11-05, 01:17 PM	#23
james99 Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Burlington Posts: 24,791	Warner Says Blu-ray Comments "Misquoted and Misconstrued" Speaking with High-Def Digest, Jim Noonan, SVP of Strategic Promotion and Communication for Warner Home Entertainment Group said "I can tell you that Warner's position has not changed, and I know that Dan did not intend to suggest that wasn't the case. We support both formats and we have made no decision to alter that policy, nor are there any such announcements coming, or being planned."

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2007-11-04, 10:48 PM	#18
SensualPoet Veteran Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Downtown Toronto • Toshiba 52XL177 • HD DVD Toshiba • Rogers HDPVR Cisco 8642 Posts: 2,886	Why? Not every CE produces product at entry level. There is LOTS of margin at the medium-price $400 level. Many of these players make HDTVs and lots of people buy one brand name -- Panasonic TV + HD player; Samsung TV + HD player; LG TV + HD player; Hitachi TV + HD player; Sharp Aquos TV + HD player ... you think there isn't a market for this? The CEs might beg to differ with you.

2007-11-05, 09:21 AM	#20
grog Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Streetsville, ON Posts: 823	Just because there are inexpensive entry level players available doesn't mean there is no market for mid-range or high-end players. For example, have a look at Denon's DVD player lineup: DVD-5910CI - MSRP = $3,800 US DVD-3930CI - MSRP = $1,499 US DVD-2930CI - MSRP = $849 US And these are just regular DVD players, not Blu-ray or HD DVD. By your argument there should be no market for these things since you can walk into any Walmart and snag a cheapo DVD player for $39.

2007-11-05, 12:29 PM	#22
jvincent Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ottawa Posts: 5,370	The arguement against Toshiba's pricing has been that it's so low it is keeping other manufacturers out of the game whereas the BD prices make it "attractive". Grog was merely pointing out that the fact that there is a low cost player driving the market penetration doesn't preclude the existence of high cost (very high margin) expensive players. I was going to post the Denon pricing myself but he beat me to it. Until the volumes on either player ramp significantly, very little money is going to be made on the players.

2007-11-05, 01:37 PM	#24
JohnnyG Veteran Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: North York, Ontario Posts: 10,407	A whole lot of double-speak, I say! They do not have to announce exclusivity in order to obviously prefer one format. That preference will become clear in the next few months, and it will be in favour of HD DVD. That's my absolutely meaningless official position

2007-11-05, 01:46 PM	#25
jvincent Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Ottawa Posts: 5,370	Being a master of corporate double speak is on the list of job requirements for an SVP of Strategic Promoion and COmmunication.

2007-11-06, 09:55 AM	#27
JohnnyG Veteran Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: North York, Ontario Posts: 10,407	I disagree. The dual format situation is now holding back the potential of the market. The time has come for all studios to either support both formats, or to pick sides and force an end to this. THAT is the prudent and most profitable way to go. Only with a clear victor will the clouds clear, the market open up, and real sales volumes begin.

2007-11-06, 06:46 PM	#28
SensualPoet Veteran Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Downtown Toronto • Toshiba 52XL177 • HD DVD Toshiba • Rogers HDPVR Cisco 8642 Posts: 2,886	I think we forget it's not the studios who are really in the driver's seat. Without players, with CE in stores, there is no format. BDA tried to create a vertical cartel to set standards, prices and roll-out but, hey, it's a big bad world out there and their plans didn't completely work out. Long term, CE can make anything -- that's why they are CE. Nothing is stopping Hitachi, for example, producing an HD DVD player if they felt like it -- HD DVD is not a closed proprietary technology. If they think the market is for Blu-ray, fine; dual players, fine. Sticking with DVD and sitting on the sidelines, fine. Studios, on the other hand, have even less vested interest in this format, or that, other than concerns about DRM and if any new format increases their ability to continue to sell hidef media at a premium and, better still, resell their libraries again. Studios already "re-purpose" their titles for theatrical release, PPV, On Demand, DVD, network TV, downloads, UMD ... and now Blu-ray and HD DVD. Why not Blu-ray AND HD DVD? Warner should be applauded for releasing as much material they have, favouring one format over the other based on its own priorities of format capabilities and current demographics. Disney and Fox should do the same. Paramount is currently sidelined; and both Universal and Sony ae sort of stuck in corporate ego to move just yet.

2007-11-06, 08:34 PM	#29
jvillain ______________ Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,460	If releasing on multiple forms of media is the nirvana you claim it is why aren't you bashing them for not releasing on that Chinese's format or the other no name HD formats? Why is it only important to relase on multiple formats when it means not dropping support for HD-DVD?

2007-11-06, 08:50 PM	#30
SensualPoet Veteran Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Downtown Toronto • Toshiba 52XL177 • HD DVD Toshiba • Rogers HDPVR Cisco 8642 Posts: 2,886	For crying out loud. Did I say anything about nirvana? I pointed out ALL studios routinely release their product in multiple channels. That is how they monetize their investment in making the original content. I could care less if they create Mandarin editions of their content and re-sell to Chinese HD DVD or VDM ... I'll never buy those and I don't own stock in them to benefit. My husband, maybe, would like that: but we already subscribe to Rogers Great Wall package and get nine channels in Mandarin. I am saying studios make money releasing their content in multiple formats for whatever they deem to be good business reasons. They don't drive consumer formats; they feed them content and make money. What was your point?