Shaw Cable HD channels: Video and audio quality discussion - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

lorenmc · 2007-10-04, 01:15 PM

I didn't watch a lot of TV over the summer and have started again since the season premiers began last week. However, IMO the macroblocking seems to be so much worse than last year. How I Met Your Mother, The Office and ER looked horrible on the West feeds.

I don't know if I have just gotten used to the pictures provided by Blu-Ray but the macroblocking on the Shaw HD channels is horrible to me.

Does anyone else notice a degradation over last year? I just don't remember it being that bad.

Redito · 2007-10-04, 03:09 PM

Actually I think it has gotten a lot better since they did their update here. Maybe it's different for you.

And I discovered that each HD program takes up less space on my drive now. Used to be a 1 hour program was 7% but now it's only 5%. Since my drive hasn't changed I can only assume the latest update did something.

We've had less audio dropouts too. Even on NBC and FOX which were always the worst.

I Wanna Flat Panel · 2007-10-04, 03:16 PM

Though you can gain some storage efficiences without additional compression (e.g., HDD sector sizes), an almost 30% gain sounds too much like additional compression to me. Do they have a new, better codec which does MPEG2 better? I doubt it. Be afraid, very, very afraid

pynner · 2007-10-04, 05:24 PM

I gotta agree.. the PQ does look better since they did whatever they did.. I have noticed it more since the new tv season has started..

usually only on repeat programs do I notice problems..

merve04 · 2007-10-04, 10:12 PM

are you talking about the move to 8PSK?? BTW what technology does Shaw\*Choice use for compression? Mpeg2?? could we be in the same boat as BEV and Mpeg4?? I dont recall seeing this much macro blocking on BEV then im seeing on shaw,, its not too too bad but noticable in fast action.

Gord Lacey · 2007-10-09, 01:41 AM

I watched Dexter, recorded last night from Movie Central, and it was BRUTAL! Any high-motion scene was a mess of square pixels. It was brutal.

Gord

57 · 2007-10-09, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Used to be a 1 hour program was 7% but now it's only 5%.

OK - a few points.

1. Shaw uses MPEG2.
2. Shaw has either 2 or 3 channels per QAM, depending on the channels.
3. If 2, then they have room for up to 19.4 Mbps, but most channels only broadcast at 15-18.
3. If 3, then they have room for roughly 13 Mpbs, so the signal may be slightly compressed.
4. Some HD channels (ones that multicast for example) may only broadcast at 12-13 Mbps (PBS Buffalo and some others are known examples)
5. The maximum bitrate for broadcast HD is 19.4 Mbps, so with 2 channels per QAM there is no compression on Shaw.
6. A 1 hour programme will therefore vary depending on the broadcast bitrate and the number of channels per QAM.

Previous thread on the topic for those new to the forum - please read.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=44562

faston · 2007-10-09, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gord Lacey

I watched Dexter, recorded last night from Movie Central, and it was BRUTAL! Any high-motion scene was a mess of square pixels. It was brutal.

Gord

Agreed. And t wasn't just 'high motion', it was any time anything moved in the scene.

57 · 2007-10-09, 01:28 PM

Perhaps MC is one of the channels with 3 channels per QAM. I know that TMN tried this with Rogers a few years back and we noticed instantly and complained to Astral. A premium channel should not be allowed to do this. Astral (and Rogers) switched back to 2 channels per QAM. That's not to say you don't see any macroblocking, but it's nowhere near as bad.

Hoowaa · 2007-10-09, 01:48 PM

Watched Dexter from my HD PVR last night in Winnipeg and it was "perfect" - just a frame of reference that perhaps it is a regional issue rather than national.

scollins · 2007-10-09, 02:27 PM

I have noticed that it is much worse this year... NBC in particular seems to be the worst of the lineup (Heroes is like a pixelated mess!!). I thought it was something to do with my HDMI cable length (about 40') in my HT was the culprit... but when I went to my other Shaw HD setup in my living room (with a 4' hdmi runing to a Pioneer plasma), it was the same crappy quality! Not impressed. My neighbour called me on the weekend also complaining of the macro blocking. We watched the 'Brother's Grim' on MCHD at the same time in our respective homes and saw the same PQ issues at the same time. Picture quality is more important than the amount of shows I can record on my DVR. I hope Shaw can fix this.

Nanuuk · 2007-10-09, 02:36 PM

I watch the HD channels almost exclusively now and have not witnessed any severe macroblocking. Certain channels (HDNET, Showcase, CBC) have better PQ than others (MCHD, A&E).

Redito · 2007-10-09, 03:12 PM

Thanks 57 for clearing up the 7% to 5% issue. I wasn't complaining because it's made it easier to record all the stuff I want but I'm grateful for the explanation.

I watch almost exclusively HD now and I really noticed an improvement in the amount of macroblocking and audio cutouts since the last update. We used to have real problems, especially on FOX and NBC with the picture breaking up and the audio cutting out multiple times in a program. Now it only happens once or twice. And my setup hasn't changed at all.

Maybe it depends on where you are and what work Shaw has done (or not done) in your area?

bb147 · 2007-10-12, 03:11 AM

hmm, havent experienced any of the mentioned issues at all, I have gotten an audio dropout but its only for a split second and happens very rarely.

Maybe I should be glad there's a shaw box right outside my house !

merve04 · 2007-10-12, 11:57 PM

how about this.. i've noticed the macro blocking on hd channels, as a matter of fact it sometimes happens on their digital channels, how sad,, but heres the deal, we can confirm shaw is putting 2 HD channels for QAM which isint overkill, its using 8PSK Mpeg 4 compression, so wheres the problem? How is this happening if i may ask?

2007-10-04, 01:15 PM	#1
lorenmc Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 24	Shaw Cable HD channels: Video and audio quality discussion I didn't watch a lot of TV over the summer and have started again since the season premiers began last week. However, IMO the macroblocking seems to be so much worse than last year. How I Met Your Mother, The Office and ER looked horrible on the West feeds. I don't know if I have just gotten used to the pictures provided by Blu-Ray but the macroblocking on the Shaw HD channels is horrible to me. Does anyone else notice a degradation over last year? I just don't remember it being that bad.

2007-10-04, 03:16 PM	#3
I Wanna Flat Panel Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Calgary Posts: 74	7% vs 5% Though you can gain some storage efficiences without additional compression (e.g., HDD sector sizes), an almost 30% gain sounds too much like additional compression to me. Do they have a new, better codec which does MPEG2 better? I doubt it. Be afraid, very, very afraid __________________ DCTs: 3080, 6208, 6416, DCX3400; HDTVs: Optoma HD20, LG 47LE5300, Viewsonic 3752; AVRs: Denon 2307, Yamaha YSP2200

2007-10-09, 01:28 PM	#9
57 Moderator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto, Rogers, 8300HD, eHDD, Panasonic TCP65S1, Denon AVR4310Ci; 8300HD, eHDD & Sony KDL40W3000 Posts: 50,293	Perhaps MC is one of the channels with 3 channels per QAM. I know that TMN tried this with Rogers a few years back and we noticed instantly and complained to Astral. A premium channel should not be allowed to do this. Astral (and Rogers) switched back to 2 channels per QAM. That's not to say you don't see any macroblocking, but it's nowhere near as bad. __________________ 57's Home Theatre (Latest equipment & photos) 57's Optimization Services (Home Theatre Optimization)

2007-10-09, 02:27 PM	#11
scollins Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: White Rock, BC Posts: 5	It is Much Worse! I have noticed that it is much worse this year... NBC in particular seems to be the worst of the lineup (Heroes is like a pixelated mess!!). I thought it was something to do with my HDMI cable length (about 40') in my HT was the culprit... but when I went to my other Shaw HD setup in my living room (with a 4' hdmi runing to a Pioneer plasma), it was the same crappy quality! Not impressed. My neighbour called me on the weekend also complaining of the macro blocking. We watched the 'Brother's Grim' on MCHD at the same time in our respective homes and saw the same PQ issues at the same time. Picture quality is more important than the amount of shows I can record on my DVR. I hope Shaw can fix this.

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2007-10-04, 03:09 PM	#2
Redito Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Winnipeg Posts: 230	Actually I think it has gotten a lot better since they did their update here. Maybe it's different for you. And I discovered that each HD program takes up less space on my drive now. Used to be a 1 hour program was 7% but now it's only 5%. Since my drive hasn't changed I can only assume the latest update did something. We've had less audio dropouts too. Even on NBC and FOX which were always the worst.

2007-10-04, 05:24 PM	#4
pynner Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Vancouver, bc Posts: 224	I gotta agree.. the PQ does look better since they did whatever they did.. I have noticed it more since the new tv season has started.. usually only on repeat programs do I notice problems..

2007-10-04, 10:12 PM	#5
merve04 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Edmonton, AB Posts: 965	are you talking about the move to 8PSK?? BTW what technology does Shaw\*Choice use for compression? Mpeg2?? could we be in the same boat as BEV and Mpeg4?? I dont recall seeing this much macro blocking on BEV then im seeing on shaw,, its not too too bad but noticable in fast action.

2007-10-09, 01:41 AM	#6
Gord Lacey Veteran Join Date: May 2003 Location: Edmonton Posts: 1,746	I watched Dexter, recorded last night from Movie Central, and it was BRUTAL! Any high-motion scene was a mess of square pixels. It was brutal. Gord

2007-10-09, 01:48 PM	#10
Hoowaa Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Winnipeg Posts: 291	Watched Dexter from my HD PVR last night in Winnipeg and it was "perfect" - just a frame of reference that perhaps it is a regional issue rather than national.

2007-10-09, 02:36 PM	#12
Nanuuk Veteran Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Calgary, AB Shaw Exo Posts: 4,811	I watch the HD channels almost exclusively now and have not witnessed any severe macroblocking. Certain channels (HDNET, Showcase, CBC) have better PQ than others (MCHD, A&E).

2007-10-09, 03:12 PM	#13
Redito Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Winnipeg Posts: 230	Thanks 57 for clearing up the 7% to 5% issue. I wasn't complaining because it's made it easier to record all the stuff I want but I'm grateful for the explanation. I watch almost exclusively HD now and I really noticed an improvement in the amount of macroblocking and audio cutouts since the last update. We used to have real problems, especially on FOX and NBC with the picture breaking up and the audio cutting out multiple times in a program. Now it only happens once or twice. And my setup hasn't changed at all. Maybe it depends on where you are and what work Shaw has done (or not done) in your area?

2007-10-12, 03:11 AM	#14
bb147 Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Calgary Posts: 81	hmm, havent experienced any of the mentioned issues at all, I have gotten an audio dropout but its only for a split second and happens very rarely. Maybe I should be glad there's a shaw box right outside my house !

2007-10-12, 11:57 PM	#15
merve04 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Edmonton, AB Posts: 965	how about this.. i've noticed the macro blocking on hd channels, as a matter of fact it sometimes happens on their digital channels, how sad,, but heres the deal, we can confirm shaw is putting 2 HD channels for QAM which isint overkill, its using 8PSK Mpeg 4 compression, so wheres the problem? How is this happening if i may ask?