Shaw or display PQ problems?

[kiwi2000]

I recently added shaw hd to my choice of sources for viewing. Although very impressive a few problems bother me and I am wondering if all shaw hd customers endure this or whether it is partially a display problem.

When a person or scene is staionary there is no better picture than that, BUT if the scene or person moves fast the screen where the movement is occuring looks as though it is breaking down or that insects have covered that part of the screen. In short it is less than ideal when motion is introduced. A perfect example was last nights viewing of "dancing with the stars" , the dancers look a treat until they actually begin to dance then the picture is not so good. The audio came and went through most of the show going from nothing to pro-logic then back to DD.

This sound problems hapens A LOT and shaw has confirmed they know they have a problem with the audio and are working on correcting it.

Do any other shaw hd users notice what I have described in the video portion in reagrds to movement? Is there a fix from shaws end?
Thanks

[Otto Mann]

Where are you located? Some of us get the Seattle feeds while others get the Detroit feeds. Without knowing this you're going to get mixed responses.

[kiwi2000]

Winterpeg MB

[Arcanum]

The video problems you are describing are due to compression of the signal. Everyone gets it - it is more noticeable on some displays than others. I fear that compression will only get worse as Shaw tries to find more bandwidth to add more channels. they are switching compression technologies this summer though, so we may all be pleasantly surprised.

[Nanuuk]

It could also be due to the technology you are using. It could also be due to you inbound signal strength or a malfucntion with your new STB. What type of TV do you have? What type of cabling are you using? Are you using splitters?

[kiwi2000]

It could be anything Nanuk which is the reason for this posting, to find out if other shaw hd customers are experiencing these same problems.
Are you experiencing compression artifacts at times during motion on the hd channels?
If you are experiencing compression then cabling ,type of display, use of splitters or inbound signal strength would be secondary to the fact the provider is compressing the signal. I am not suggesting though that your suggestions are not valid. I assume that all your points mentioned contribute in some way to the final picture quality. But it is my guess that the main culprit is the signal from shaw

Can you confirm this type of artifact on your display?

Yes I incorporate splitters, the cabling was supplied by shaw, I have an lcd display, I have no way of knowing the inbound signal strength unless you have a way to find this out in the set top menus.

I am concerned that if shaw adds more hd channel content they will merely compress the signal more to insert these additional channels making it worse.

If I could get a gauge of how widespread this is maybe a petition could be started to bring this problem to their attention for correction.

[57]

Compression artifacts - mostly macroblocking are very common on HD channels and are simply a fact of life with MPEG, which compresses the original image by over a factor of 50 from over 1 Gbps to a maximum of 19.4 Mbps - Shaw may compress a bit further, but the original compression is usually the major issue. A lot of movement on-screen will cause the problem.

A proper setup of the TV (reducing sharpness, turning of some of the automatic settings) may reduce the problems.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=17713

If you do an advanced search on this forum for "macroblocking" and my username, you'll find several previous threads.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=58816

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=59125 (post 12)

[kiwi2000]

Thank you 57 for the links. I can see this issue has been brought up before. The question remains as to what as end users we can do to adjust shaws mentality for adding more and more programming and further compressing the signal.
I would much prefer to have better less content than unwatchable more content.
Can we organize somehow or has this already been covered also?
I think if enough people complain about a specific problem shaw will have to address it. I have tried on my own, with the audio problems shaw admits the problem and that they are working to correct the audio dropouts.

But the macroblocking they claim they have not had any complaints and I am the first to mention this particular problem that they could send a tech to see if it is my equipment or the unit, and they have tried the reset feature.

From what I am reading that is not the case and it is a symptom of the compression methods used by shaw to deliver the hd signal. What if everyone would phone from whatever area they are in to shaw and state they saw this problem at such and such time (describe in detail the problem)and what is shaw going to do to correct it?
If the service requests all started reading the same problem maybe it would be addressed by shaw sooner rather than later.

[57]

Some of the channels have no compression, or very little by Shaw. You seem to have missed the point that the major portion of compression is done by MPEG and the affiliates and there's nothing you, or anyone, can do about this at this time, until there is a different compression type used, or until lots of additional bandwidth is available.

HD customers are relatively few and you'll probably find that the majority of Shaw customers will vote for more programming, rather than better quality.

Once analogue cable goes away in a few years, it should no longer be an issue because there will be enough bandwidth.

[Shaggy]

I'm ashamed to say that I caught the last part of Dancing with the stars last night. I didn't notice any artifacts - in fact I watched it because the picture was so amazingly clear.

[Nanuuk]

Kiwi, on my first HDTV (2001), I had severe pixelation that was a result of a poor quality signal from Shaw and poor splitters I was using (hand me downs). Well, Shaw fixed that up very nicely, thank you, and I experienced no pixelation or other artifacts thereafter. I recently purchased an LCD tv and I occasionally observe artifacts in fast sequenced scenes (live or otherwise). But not all LCD's are equal. some LCD's will display this more and I bleive it has to do with the display refresh rates. Certainly, folks on this board will attest that Plasma technology eliminates artifacts and some pople will choos plasma over LCD for this reason. As 57 has said, you can't necessarily pin this one on Shaw (although 2 channels per QAM wouldn't hurt!).

[kiwi2000]

57 wrote
You seem to have missed the point that the major portion of compression is done by MPEG and the affiliates and there's nothing you, or anyone, can do about this at this time, until there is a different compression type used, or until lots of additional bandwidth is available.

I then read from the next two posters that these artifacts are a non issue. The waters are muddy!

I wil take your advice Nanuk and get a tech to trace the signal and test the signal strenght and maybe get rid of poor splitters and cable if indeed shaggy saw no artifacts(although in another location).

57 states it is the compression technology not the provider nor display who is at fault. we shall see.

[Nanuuk]

My reasoning isn't incongruous with 57, but if it came down who to side with I'd go with 57. Since it could also be your box, Shaw should be able to get to the bottom of it.

You may wish to list your TV type, cable box etc, in your signature. There are more knowledgeable members out there than me (not too many better than 57, though), that could help.

Good luck! I'm sure once this gets figured out you'll enjoy your new setup and many hours of happy viewing!

[57]

Originally Posted by kiwi2000

...I then read from the next two posters that these artifacts are a non issue. The waters are muddy!...

I have the following comments regarding that.

1. Some people are more "sensitive" (attuned) to the compression artifacts than others.

2. As mentioned by others, some HDTVs "show or highlight" these artifacts better than others.

3. The size of the TV can come into play (easier to see on larger displays), and lastly, as mentioned previously.

4. The setup of the TV can exacerbate the situation.

So, as Nanuuk stated, the various comments are not necessarily contradictory.

[Underground]

Originally Posted by 57

I have the following comments regarding that.

1. Some people are more "sensitive" (attuned) to the compression artifacts than others.

2. As mentioned by others, some HDTVs "show or highlight" these artifacts better than others.

3. The size of the TV can come into play (easier to see on larger displays), and lastly, as mentioned previously.

4. The setup of the TV can exacerbate the situation.

So, as Nanuuk stated, the various comments are not necessarily contradictory.

very good information indeed, the op should consider everything. Larger DLP are the worst. Also look into calibrating your tv.