Residential - Solar Panel Discussion Thread

[Dog Byte]

I depends where you live -- BC Hydro doesn't allow residential power generation to connect to the grid. It's a safety issue but they don't have any policies for handling it. (If the utility needs to shut off the power they have to go around and disconnect every small generator.)

[57]

I don't know how it works, but I would assume that any bidirectional power meter would have the ability to prevent what you're describing.

[bete_noir]

It depends where you live -- BC Hydro doesn't allow residential power generation to connect to the grid. It's a safety issue but they don't have any policies for handling it. (If the utility needs to shut off the power they have to go around and disconnect every small generator.)

Well, I don't think that's quite the case....they changed their policy regarding net-metering after 2003, I believe:

http://www.bchydro.com/info/ipp/ipp8842.html

Anyway, I know hugh doesn't want this to be a discussion of Government poilicies, but it's a critical factor in the decision to sink cash into an expensive, albeit environmentally beneficial project. Look at the solar power farm the Ontario Government just agreed to suppport: they're signing a 20-year agreement to purchase the power from a California company at a fixed rate. Meanwhile, they turn around and screw the little guy - like that old geezer who spent six figures on a windmill generating system for his farm, but then got his taxes re-assessed so he loses any money he would have made from selling the excess juice back to the Ontario Hydro!!

[Dog Byte]

Well, I don't think that's quite the case....they changed their policy regarding net-metering after 2003, I believe

Interesting. BC Hydro's being pretty coy about the whole thing then.

I don't know how it works, but I would assume that any bidirectional power meter would have the ability to prevent what you're describing.

A meter is just a meter. The power inverter (that generates the 120VAC, 60Hz electricty and syncs it to the grid) might have an automatic disconnect. Or it might not.

[que3jxp]

There are a few "funny" things with PV solar that makes it basically a zero sum game both environmentally and economically.

Environmentally, the best PV panels out there are actually made with very non-environmentally friendly chemicals.

Economically, the expected life of the panel is such that unless there is a serious increase in output and/or a reduction in price, you will never see the black on the balance sheet as you will be replacing them just when you are about to break even.

I agree with 57. The first route is Negawatts. Second is passive solar. Third, look at solar PV systems for things that are VERY light draw. At the 10 year mark, I am looking at replacing my well pump with a solar powered system. Both from a convienience and savings perspective.

Until PV panels can actually be SEEN IN THE STORE that have an efficiency rating of at least 50% (Most are lucky to be higher than 10% to 15%) and are not thousands of $$$ each, solar PV is a waste. We would be better off chasing fuel cell generators for houses.

[jgvp]

Why are people still including water heater tanks in their calculations for the viability of switching to solar power ? If you're going to be that interested in conserving energy then you would surely decide on installing "hot water on demand" heaters first.

[57]

Because on-demand hot water heaters typically use non-renewable energy sources and also because solar heating for hot water is one of the least expensive, and most efficient means of using solar energy.

We're not talking about using (solar) electricity to heat the water, but the sun directly with a solar panel that has water circulating through it, instead of cells for generating electricity

[jgvp]

[quote]but the sun directly with a solar panel that has water circulating through it, instead of cells for generating electricity [quote]

Ah, but doesn't that defeat the "hot water on demand" principle of conservation and especially if no reserve water tank is used since maintaining the heat would require the use of non-newable energy. What happens when you happen to be using the shower ( to say nothing of it being just after your better half has just run the dishwasher,) at the end of an overcast period of days ? Surely there wouldn't be sufficient HOT water held within the pipes in a solar panel to meet that kind of demand. I'm not well versed in that aspect of using solar energy, so I don't know how hot and how much water it can be. I think I would much pefer the solar electricity method of running a "hot water on demand" heater, if in fact that is even feasible.

[57]

I may have misspoken (written) earlier in that the water may not be circulating, but rather another medium, which then heats the water. There would (obviously) need to be "backup" water heating method in case of lots of cloud as you say, same as for electricity obviously.

I'm not sure if some of these systems could be used also to heat the home - some additional capital cost could supply the heating medium to your heating system as well I suppose whenever "extra" heat is available and required in the home.

[Hurricane]

Passive Solar Domestic Hot Water systems work like this:

- A heat transfer medium (I beleive it typically glycol based) is cirulated through the solar collector where it is heated.
-The heated fluid is them passed through a heat exchanger where the heat is transfered from the glycol to a standby water tank.
- The water then moves from the standby tank into the main water heater. (A conventional tank definaitely works, but you could probably use a tankless as well. )

In the case of long periods of overcast coniditions etc., the main tank will still heat the water using conventional methods, gas, electricity etc.

The systems I have seen also come with a small PV cell in order to power the pump used to circulate the glycol mix. A system like this could be used for an in-floor radiant heating system, pool/hot tub heater, pretty much anywhere that you need to heat water.

I beleive that the EcoEnergy rebate program will also give you $500 for the installation of a solar domestic water heater.

[jgvp]

Thank you 57 and Hurricane, I am now beginning to fill in the gaps in my grasp of how the various PV panels are employed. I will pursue a Google search of all the relative data that is available.

[jshel101]

Thought I would revive this thread as the City of Calgary has recently announced that they are going to make it easier for homeowners to install solar panels.
http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...d-81424ed0c34b

I was going to look into a Solar Thermal (Heating) Systems. This is for heating your hot water tank. Just wondering if anyone out there knows how good these systems are?
http://www.sedmek.com/U.%20Thermal.html

[que3jxp]

The city of Fredericton is also getting ready to amend their building codes to better accommodate the installation of solar and wind devices. And additionally, NB Power is slated to start advertising that they do net metering on power.

The best uses for solar at this time are still thermal. PVs are not efficient enough and are too expensive for large scale residential use. If I did not have the supplemental hot water from my GHP, I would have installed a solar water heating system when I built the house.

[nbthor]

Does anyone know if these smart metres run backwards. I have solar panels, a 1 KW installation and have a net metering agreement with Toronto Hydro. They installed a smart metre in the fall and the guy said it would run backwards, but my bills are looking a lot heavier than I think they should.

As to the idea of smart metering, I am a SAHM and am not going to sit on my behind staring at the walls all day to avoid paying peak prices. I think people are supposed to be sleeping after 10 pm, not washing clothes.

[recneps77]

That depends on the type of meter and the utility's way of running it. You're best to contact Toronto Hydro to check if your system is working properly (They should be responsible for having the meter running correctly at all times)