Movie Disc Encodings: MPEG2 vs VC-1 vs. H.264

[Marco23]

I've been hearing that blu ray is using older technology than the HD players (xbox 360 included), can anyone confirm this please? What stopped me from blu ray PS3 was this mpeg 2 vs the best quality HD dvd is offering, can or will ps3 ever be able to produce better than mpeg 2 through upgrades on console or blu ray players?

[PrimeBane]

Blu-Ray movies are encoded using the older Mpeg 2 codec. HD-DVDs are encoded using the newer VC-1 codec (some Mpeg2 for 480 material).

While there were early concerns with BD and mpeg2, it seems (at least to me anyways) that they've been overcome and the PQ from both codecs are very good now. I'm not sure this is a huge concern with all now.

Since you're new to gaming I'd suggest either renting a 360 and PS3 or consider testing a friends. There's many different styles of games out there and not everyone likes the same. The 360 currently had a better nextgen library of games, but the PS3 will add more in time.

For currenty bang for your buck, if you can find the 360 Premium system for $400 (check your local WM) you can have it and the HD-DVD addon for less than the PS3 and you'll have 2 games with it. However, if you require wireless then the PS3 might be the better deal as a wireless connector for the 360 runs about $129.99 plus tax (sometimes cheaper if you look around).

This can be a tough call, but if you do your homework I think you'll be very happy with your purchases.

[JohnnyG]

SOME Blu-ray movies are MPEG2 but MPEG4 AVC and VC-1 are also supported and there are a number of titles that already use them.

[diogen]

Warner is using the same VC-1 encodes of their movies in both HD and BD releases for a while.
Sony announced Casino Royale will be encoded using AVC (one of their first non-MPEG-2 release).

Diogen.

[james99]

Microsoft (on their own dime) created a tool that converts the HD DVD VC-1 codec over to the Blu-Ray VC-1 codec.

WB is currently using it.

[diogen]

Originally Posted by Marco23

As far as vc1 I thought MIcrosoft owns rights to it therefore sony cannot get them

VC-1 is as open a standard as H.264 and MPEG-2.
Nobody has to talk to MS to use it. Sony doesn't use it because it thinks MPEG-2 is better than VC-1.
All studios that release in HD-DVD use VC-1 (only - in the US, some AVC - in Japan).

Diogen.

[JohnnyG]

There are IP royalties to be paid for H.264 and still for MPEG2 too (I believe), and I'm quite certain there are royalties involved in the use of VC-1 as well.

[JonO]

If anyone is interested in the VC-1 licence terms, I found them here. As you can see from the link, there are a number of companies that are considered to be "owners" of the standard, and not just Microsoft.

For Mpeg 4 (h.264), the licence terms can be found here

[diogen]

Originally Posted by JohnnyG

There are IP royalties to be paid...

Of course. Open standard doesn't mean public domain.
It just means that the decoder is standardized and licensing is non-discriminatory.
The encoder is never standardized - this is where companies can differentiate their products.
You can do what ever you want with the stream: as long as the standard decoder can play it, you are within specs.

Diogen.

[adit]

diogen is right.Both Blu-Ray and HD DVD players must support and decode the same 3 encoding ( MPEG2,MPEG4 and VC1). There are no differences from this point of view between the 2 formats. Every studio is free to encode it's movies in either format they chose , the players however MUST support all of them (part of the specs).The quality of the movie will vary at the end depending of the quality of the encoding ( all formats allow different parameters for encoding , plus there is variation between the original used for mastering (plus depends also of the software used for encoding).

However I'm pretty sure that once a movie is mastered by studios which support both formats (like WB) the encoding is not changed, just the disk mastering ( same step you need to create a standard DVD from mpeg files).

[Marco23]

Its seems its all about VC-1 and MPEG 2, not for anything but all the movies I've seen on HD DVD including the VC-1 codec have been amazing, the best in mu opinion. Mpeg 2 is really grainy and black on black is aweful.

Why isn't blu ray realizing this. Hd DVD can hold less on its disks BUT it doesn't need as much on a disk if its VC-1, which is truly awesome. Also it is more scratch resistent than a blu ray.

Also I hate to think of the fact that blu can hold alot on it, eample a whole season on 2 disks say BD-25, and if it ruins you lose the whole disk which may be equivalent to 7 episodes or more.

Meg 2 is really disgusting in my view although the later more recent movies look better and are close to VC-1 I don't like the fact that the movies that arte already out may have to be remastered on blu ray thus more money to spend. Where as its cheaper and perfect on all HD dvd's..

I like playstation which is why I would get one but to support blu ray on it, is tough. Therefore I may just get an xbox 360.

This war is so annoying and not needed at all.

Anyone else agree with me?

Mpeg 4 is closer to VC-1.

[jvillain]

If you use google you can find lots of sites that will explain how codecs work and how what you just wrote is complete nonsense.

[tqn]

Originally Posted by Marco23

Meg 2 is really disgusting in my view although the later more recent movies look better and are close to VC-1

It's a stretch to call Mpeg2 "disgusting". From what I've read on various forums, at high bitrates Mpeg2 can actually look a little sharper than VC-1. No, I don't have any technical details or links. The point I'm trying to make is that it's not fair to look a the back of the box and if the video codec says Mpeg2 then to automatically dismiss the PQ as junk.

As for scratch resistance, Blu-ray is far more scratch resistant than HD DVD, due to BD's hard coating. Lots of anecdotal evidence supports this.

[U]

I agree with jvillain... Do a bit of reading before making comments like "mpeg-2 is disgusting"... What matters in the end is PQ and evidence suggests that aside from early releases BD movies hold their own against HD-DVD no matter what codec is used.

[james99]

Mpeg2 is inferior, especially when used on a single layer BD disc. It still surprises me that these discs are still being created for some new releases.