ATSC DVR & PVR Recorders

[stampeder]

Nice to see that London Drugs and The Source are bringing in this Panny 1080p DVD Recorder with ATSC Tuner. The Source doesn't even mention the ATSC tuner in it on their web site!

I'm assuming this unit passes through HD signals with 1080p upconversion to an HDTV, but records/stores in SDTV with 1080p upconversion on playback... anyone know for sure?

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by stampeder

I'm assuming this unit passes through HD signals with 1080p upconversion to an HDTV, but records/stores in SDTV with 1080p upconversion on playback... anyone know for sure?

From what I have read, it (like all DVD recorders so far) always downconverts the picture to SD and then upconverts it back to HD, even when watching live programming, so it can't be used as an HD tuner.

[angeltryst]

Originally Posted by stampeder

I'm assuming this unit passes through HD signals with 1080p upconversion to an HDTV, but records/stores in SDTV with 1080p upconversion on playback... anyone know for sure?

techspecs and a link to the manual can be found on panasonic.com:

http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-e...00000000005702

an excerpt from the manual:

This DVD recorder has a tuner which allows it to directly receive and record
analog and terrestrial digital channels. High Definition (HD) programming is
“down-converted” and recorded in Standard Definition (SD).

So down-converted recordings were expected, nothing different there.

What I haven't found was if OTA HD signals are passed through natively (with component or HDMI connections of course) or are they down-converted then re-up'd when used strictly as an OTA tuner.

[stampeder]

Sears Canada is now offering the Panasonic 1080p DVD Recorder with ATSC Tuner mentioned in Post #135.

[joatti]

thank you stampeder for the info on sear's Panasonic 1080p DVD Recorder with ATSC Tuner. I might consider buying this, since I need a DiVx player as well.

[recneps77]

Originally Posted by tenstu

So can I assume from this thread that there is no OTA ATSC PVR available?

It depends if you want HD recordings, or just recording in general. Many of the boxes DO record ATSC, it's just downconverted to SD.
I don't think there are many (any?) on the market that will record in HD.

[hungt1999]

I own the Philips DVDR-3575H (ATSC+hard drive) and I can confirm that the HD content is downconverted to SD regardless if it is watched live or recorded. Afterward, it is supposed to upconvert via HDMI but the quality is really bad, not anywhere close to the real HD delivered when watching with my ATSC tuner of my TV.

One solution to watch and record real HD is to get one of those Satellite box with a built-in ATSC tuner and PVR. There exist only a couple of those units at the moment (Sonicview 8000HD, Viewsat 9000HD, Coolsat 81000HD, Coaxsat Carbon). It seems the sonicview 8000HD is the most 'bug free' unit at the moment. The cost is about $350-400 plus the cost of an external USB hard drive which is about another $100. Beware that one hour of HD recording is about 5 GB so a 250GB hard drive will hold about only 50 hours of recording.

All of those FTA units are somehow very buggy, you have to spend a lot of time in their respective discussion boards to get solutions and software updates that fix problems.

The second solution is to go with a ATSC PCI card that you plug in your computer and use your computer hard drive with the appropriate sofware to record. For laptops, there exists also the USB version of the ATSC tuner.

[hungt1999]

I read somewhere that the reason manufacturers of DVD recorders downconvert to SD for recording has something to do with copyright issues. So until that is solved, units sold in the market will behave that way

[El Gran Chico]

Originally Posted by hungt1999

I read somewhere that the reason manufacturers of DVD recorders downconvert to SD for recording has something to do with copyright issues. So until that is solved, units sold in the market will behave that way

I've heard that too, but don't the cable/satellite PVRs record HD? They have a much larger market share, so prohibiting it in OTA PVRs seems like going after the wrong end of the problem.

There must be more to this that I don't know about?!

I am also holding out for a HD recording solution. In the interim, you guys are going to laugh at what I'm doing - I use the composite video out on my DTB-H260F and have it connect to the aux input of my early 1990s VCR. Yup, looks like crap on my Aquos but at least I get to see the show I'd overwise missed.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by hungt1999

I read somewhere that the reason manufacturers of DVD recorders downconvert to SD for recording has something to do with copyright issues. So until that is solved, units sold in the market will behave that way

No, it is a cost saving issue. Standard DVDs only support SD recordings and they use the ATSC decoder chip to downconvert to SD. Since the current chips cannot output both HD and SD signals they choose to have it output in SD. The other option is to use an external chip to do the downconversion, but this adds cost. Until we get Blue-ray DVD recorders, we likely won't see DVD recorders that pass through true HD.

[stampeder]

Several alternative methods of recording OTA programming in its native HD format have arisen in this thread, but each requires specific information and requirements of the consumer over and above simply purchasing one from a mainstream vendor, which is not the intent of this present thread. Discussion here is of commonly available consumer-grade ATSC-capable Set Top Box PVRs/DVRs and I've clarified the thread title to reflect this.

Here is where to find info on alternatives:

1. There are OTA threads in the HTPC forum on how to configure MCE and other PC-based PVRs. Personally I use MythTV on Linux with 2 x ATSC and 1 x NTSC cards, and it works beautifully. We don't want to mix those discussions into this thread, so several posts have been relocated to that forum: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=90669
2. You can record HD OTA signals in their HD format with a suitable FTA receiver - you can read about them in the thread about satellite receivers that have OTA tuners: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=20730

3. Originally Posted by ericball

   Option 3 is to import a TiVo HD (although you will need to use a US location for the guide data)

   TivoHD use in Canada is discussed in this thread: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/show...ghlight=tivohd

Cheers

[avgjoe]

Sorry getting a bit confused by the posts above - can somebody confirm that you can use the Panasonic recorder as HDTV ATSC tuner (don't really care about the recording in SD part much, I just want to be sure this will provide 1080i HD output to tv)

[roger1818]

avgjoe, No, it will not provide true 1080i as a tuner. It will downconvert the picture to 480i and then upconvert it back to 1080i resulting in significant picture loss.

[tenstu]

Sounds to me like they have not decided or determined retail points yet. Obviously, they can easily committ to selling it online.

For those of us *waiting* for this unit, it looks like we might need to make use of any friends we have in the US for a shipping address.....

Good news on the date of availability though - nice find!

Stu

[lhowarth]

Help need information re DVD-HD recorders with ASTC / Qum tuner?

I read through these posts but some of the info is not current.

I’m way behind on current devices and my Panasonic DVD-HD unit just died. I am on standard cable in Burlington and would like to buy a replacement DVD-HD with an ASTC, QUM, NSTC, cable ready tuner. In my opinion it makes no sense to buy something with a standard tuner (NSTC) which will be obsolete in a few years.

I visited the local Future shop and was surprised to find none of the units they sell have ASTC tuners.

So to my question: are there any DVD-HD recorders with the combination tuners?

I read some posts about PRV’s. Can you use these units on cable? From what I have found out the Tivo is sort of useless for anything but over the air and in my opinion not worth the monthly fee for a menu!

This TR-50 sounds interesting but again...what tuners will it come with and is it another unit you get to buy, then are expected to pay a fee to use!

Sorry if these questions seem simple but although I have played with OTA DTV using a home made Gray Hoverman antenna and a Autumn Wave USB tuner I am way behind on the recording end of things.

Larry