ATSC DVR & PVR Recorders - Page 2 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

David M · 2007-01-25, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 99gecko

LG had 50" & 60" plasmas with ATSC tuner and integrated 160 GB hard drive DVR - 50/60py2dr & 50pc1dr are the model #'s.

As listed on the LG - Canada website, 50" and 60" plasmas with built-in HD DVR:

http://ca.lge.com/en/prodmodeldetail...Select+a+model

http://ca.lge.com/en/prodmodeldetail...Select+a+model

and a 42" LCD with built-in HD DVR:

http://ca.lge.com/en/prodmodeldetail...Select+a+model

Anyone familiar with these ?

co1976 · 2007-02-01, 04:16 PM

hi there.
i just finish talking with the quebec rep for panasonic and he confirm to me
that panasonic is launchin a dvd recorder with a atsc tuner built in.
it is gon to be available in april with a price point of 379$.
it is good news for people that have hd tvs with out atsc tuners..
i think that the recording is going to be downscaled to 480p..

over all it is good news.

best regards

Cyclism · 2007-02-01, 04:19 PM

That is good news. Any word on what 8VSB chipset the actual ATSC tuner will have?

co1976 · 2007-02-01, 06:20 PM

no .he didnt seem to know to much about ota in general

co1976 · 2007-02-01, 06:26 PM

I have a home a lg atsc pvr that also records 1080i and also as 2 separate audio video inputs. i got it of the lg rep in montreal and it is a great peace of equipement. i will post the model number when i get home.

using it with a projector for 126 inch of hd tv. that is the good life. superbowl will be amazing.

roger1818 · 2007-02-02, 04:03 PM

Here is a list of recorders (DVD, VCR, or HDD) with ATSC tuners that either have been anounced or are currently available. The list is a work in progress and the list of features is my best guess from the press release and may not be accurate. MSRP is in USD:

JVC - Press Release

DRMV99
Type: DVD/VCR
MSRP: $329.95
Aval: May-07
Feat: upconverting, Timer Link auto record

HM-DT100
Type: D-VCR
MSRP: $1,499.95
Aval: now
Feat: HD Recording

LG - Press Release

RC797T
type: DVD/VCR
MSRP: ???
Aval: ???
feat: USB Media Host port

DR787T
type: DVD
MSRP: ???
Aval: ???
feat: USB Media Host port

Panasonic - Press Release

DMR-EZ17
Type: DVD
MSRP: $229.95
Aval: April-07
Feat:

DMR-EZ27
Type: DVD
MSRP: $279.95
Aval: May-07
Feat: upconverting, SD slot

DMR-EZ37V
Type: DVD/VCR
MSRP: $329.95
Aval: April-07
Feat:

DMR-EZ47V
Type: DVD/VCR
MSRP: $379.95
Aval: May-07
Feat: upconverting, SD slot

RCA - Press Release

DRC8335
Type: DVD/VCR
MSRP: $249.99
Aval: April-07
Feat:

Samsung - Press Release

DVD-AVR950
Type: DVD/VCR
MSRP: $319.99
Aval: Jun-07
Feat: upconverting, DVD-RAM, dual layer recording

DVD-AVR650
Type: DVD
MSRP: $249.99
Aval: Apr-07
Feat: upconverting, DVD-RAM, dual layer recording

Toshiba - Press Release

D-R550
Type: DVD
MSRP: ???
Aval: ???
Feat:

D-VR650
Type: DVD/VCR
MSRP: ???
Aval: ???
Feat: upconverting, DVD-RAM

TiVo

300-hr Series3™
Type: HDD
MSRP: $799.99
Avail: now
Feat: HD Recording, subscription required

stampeder · 2007-02-02, 05:49 PM

Thanks Roger, that's terrific info! For some people the lack of this type of OTA machine has been a real downer, and for some it has been the reason they haven't gone with OTA.

Nice to see the upcoming analogue cutoff in the U.S. having such a good effect on the marketplace. I hope those companies will market these products in Canada!

WoodButcher · 2007-02-09, 01:28 PM

Roger,
My thanks too. I guess the next thing I would like to add to your table is Canadian release dates. I think there was mention of the Panasonic in April. Does anyone have any more dates to add?

roger1818 · 2007-02-14, 05:06 PM

I was thinking, it will be interesting to see how the DVD recorders will handle unconverted SD and ED programs since the recorder will have to downconvert them. Unconverted WS programs will probably see some degradation as compared to the original WS source as a result of the upconversion and downconversion processes, but it still should look pretty good.

The real problem could be with Pillar Boxed 4:3 programs. If the recorder doesn't know that it has been pillar boxed, it might record it in anamorphic WS, resulting in a loss of picture detail. I can see three ways of resolving this issue, each with its own pros and cons.

Let the user select the aspect ratio. The problem is most people don't know which aspect ratio a program is going to be broadcast in.
Use the ATSC flags to determine the aspect ratio. If the flags are incorrect, the wrong aspect ratio could be used though.
Try to detect black bars to select the correct aspect ratio. This could be difficult to do and could, in some circumstances, result in the switching of aspect ratios mid program. This would probably be the best approach though.

Can anyone think of any other solutions?

timmy1 · 2007-02-26, 12:39 PM

I'm just wondering why there are so many ATSC DVD recorders announced or available, and so few HDD recorders (see post #25)?

I've never used either, but at first glace HDD recording seems to be a better solution for a number of reasons -- theoretically infinite capacity w/ add-on drives, no need to down-convert, a mechanically simpler device, possible lower long-term costs (depending on how many dvds you would burn), etc.

Am I missing something? Is there a strong argument in favour of DVD recording?

roger1818 · 2007-02-26, 04:06 PM

timmy1, I have heard several people with similar questions. I don't have an official answer but can only speculate that the primary issue is cost. The increased data requirements of HD necessitate larger and faster hard drives. If you also include the added cost of an ATSC tuner (some estimate that it adds an extra $100) the device probably doesn't end up meeting the price point that OEMs estimate is required for it to be successful. As the cost of hard drives and ATSC tuners come down, we may start to see more HD-HDD recorders on the market.

roger1818 · 2007-03-07, 01:44 PM

I stumbled on a brochure describing LG's 2007 product line. The DVD recorders are on page 13 (right side of page 7). I have updated the information below based on this:

LG - 2007 Full Line Brochure (PDF)

RC797T
type: DVD/VCR
MSRP: ???
Aval: March 2007
feat: DVD-RAM, DVD+R Double Layer Recording, USB Media Host port, Digital Cable/Satellite Box Controller

DR787T
type: DVD
MSRP: ???
Aval: March 2007
feat: DVD-RAM, DVD+R Double Layer Recording, USB Media Host port, Digital Cable/Satellite Box Controller

roger1818 · 2007-03-13, 04:00 PM

Here is another confirmed DVD recorder with ATSC tuner:

Philips:

DVDR3505 - User Manual
Type: DVD
MSRP: $329.99 ???
Aval: March 2007 ???
feat: SDTV tuner, 1080i up-conversion, i.LINK

Scanning through the manual it seems kind of awkward the way you have to manually switch between analog and digital tuners with the remote. It also sounds like the tuner will down-convert everything (even live broadcasts) and then up-convert it again. I hope others are better than this.

There are a couple more recorders that I haven't been able to confirm from the manufacturers so I would count them as rumors for now:

Philips:

DVDR3575H_37
Type: DVD with 160GB HDDx
MSRP: ???
Aval: April 2007 ???
feat: ???

Sylvania:

zc350sl8
Type: DVD
MSRP: $199 ???
Aval: April 2007 ???
feat: ???

stampeder · 2007-03-13, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger1818

Scanning through the manual it seems kind of awkward the way you have to manually switch between analog and digital tuners with the remote.

I'd have to walk away from a tuner like that.

Integrated ATSC/NTSC tuners are popping up all over the place now so I don't see why they had problems doing it too.

David M · 2007-03-14, 11:43 AM

USB media host is mentioned for several models
details ?
Reviews ?

2007-02-01, 04:16 PM	#17
co1976 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: pierrefons Posts: 4	new panasonic dvd recorder with atsc tuner hi there. i just finish talking with the quebec rep for panasonic and he confirm to me that panasonic is launchin a dvd recorder with a atsc tuner built in. it is gon to be available in april with a price point of 379$. it is good news for people that have hd tvs with out atsc tuners.. i think that the recording is going to be downscaled to 480p.. over all it is good news. best regards

2007-02-02, 04:03 PM	#21
roger1818 Veteran Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Ottawa (Stittsville), ON, OTA (Radio Shack Omnidirectional Antenna and 5Y6S in Attic), MythTV HTPC Posts: 5,605	List of Main Brand OTA ATSC Recorders (with MSRP in US $) Here is a list of recorders (DVD, VCR, or HDD) with ATSC tuners that either have been anounced or are currently available. The list is a work in progress and the list of features is my best guess from the press release and may not be accurate. MSRP is in USD: JVC - Press Release DRMV99 Type: DVD/VCR MSRP: $329.95 Aval: May-07 Feat: upconverting, Timer Link auto record HM-DT100 Type: D-VCR MSRP: $1,499.95 Aval: now Feat: HD Recording LG - Press Release RC797T type: DVD/VCR MSRP: ??? Aval: ??? feat: USB Media Host port DR787T type: DVD MSRP: ??? Aval: ??? feat: USB Media Host port Panasonic - Press Release DMR-EZ17 Type: DVD MSRP: $229.95 Aval: April-07 Feat: DMR-EZ27 Type: DVD MSRP: $279.95 Aval: May-07 Feat: upconverting, SD slot DMR-EZ37V Type: DVD/VCR MSRP: $329.95 Aval: April-07 Feat: DMR-EZ47V Type: DVD/VCR MSRP: $379.95 Aval: May-07 Feat: upconverting, SD slot RCA - Press Release DRC8335 Type: DVD/VCR MSRP: $249.99 Aval: April-07 Feat: Samsung - Press Release DVD-AVR950 Type: DVD/VCR MSRP: $319.99 Aval: Jun-07 Feat: upconverting, DVD-RAM, dual layer recording DVD-AVR650 Type: DVD MSRP: $249.99 Aval: Apr-07 Feat: upconverting, DVD-RAM, dual layer recording Toshiba - Press Release D-R550 Type: DVD MSRP: ??? Aval: ??? Feat: D-VR650 Type: DVD/VCR MSRP: ??? Aval: ??? Feat: upconverting, DVD-RAM TiVo 300-hr Series3™ Type: HDD MSRP: $799.99 Avail: now Feat: HD Recording, subscription required

2007-02-14, 05:06 PM	#24
roger1818 Veteran Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Ottawa (Stittsville), ON, OTA (Radio Shack Omnidirectional Antenna and 5Y6S in Attic), MythTV HTPC Posts: 5,605	I was thinking, it will be interesting to see how the DVD recorders will handle unconverted SD and ED programs since the recorder will have to downconvert them. Unconverted WS programs will probably see some degradation as compared to the original WS source as a result of the upconversion and downconversion processes, but it still should look pretty good. The real problem could be with Pillar Boxed 4:3 programs. If the recorder doesn't know that it has been pillar boxed, it might record it in anamorphic WS, resulting in a loss of picture detail. I can see three ways of resolving this issue, each with its own pros and cons. Let the user select the aspect ratio. The problem is most people don't know which aspect ratio a program is going to be broadcast in. Use the ATSC flags to determine the aspect ratio. If the flags are incorrect, the wrong aspect ratio could be used though. Try to detect black bars to select the correct aspect ratio. This could be difficult to do and could, in some circumstances, result in the switching of aspect ratios mid program. This would probably be the best approach though. Can anyone think of any other solutions?

2007-03-07, 01:44 PM	#27
roger1818 Veteran Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Ottawa (Stittsville), ON, OTA (Radio Shack Omnidirectional Antenna and 5Y6S in Attic), MythTV HTPC Posts: 5,605	I stumbled on a brochure describing LG's 2007 product line. The DVD recorders are on page 13 (right side of page 7). I have updated the information below based on this: LG - 2007 Full Line Brochure (PDF) RC797T type: DVD/VCR MSRP: ??? Aval: March 2007 feat: DVD-RAM, DVD+R Double Layer Recording, USB Media Host port, Digital Cable/Satellite Box Controller DR787T type: DVD MSRP: ??? Aval: March 2007 feat: DVD-RAM, DVD+R Double Layer Recording, USB Media Host port, Digital Cable/Satellite Box Controller

2007-03-13, 04:00 PM	#28
roger1818 Veteran Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Ottawa (Stittsville), ON, OTA (Radio Shack Omnidirectional Antenna and 5Y6S in Attic), MythTV HTPC Posts: 5,605	Here is another confirmed DVD recorder with ATSC tuner: Philips: DVDR3505 - User Manual Type: DVD MSRP: $329.99 ??? Aval: March 2007 ??? feat: SDTV tuner, 1080i up-conversion, i.LINK Scanning through the manual it seems kind of awkward the way you have to manually switch between analog and digital tuners with the remote. It also sounds like the tuner will down-convert everything (even live broadcasts) and then up-convert it again. I hope others are better than this. There are a couple more recorders that I haven't been able to confirm from the manufacturers so I would count them as rumors for now: Philips: DVDR3575H_37 Type: DVD with 160GB HDDx MSRP: ??? Aval: April 2007 ??? feat: ??? Sylvania: zc350sl8 Type: DVD MSRP: $199 ??? Aval: April 2007 ??? feat: ???

2007-02-01, 04:19 PM	#18
Cyclism Moderator Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Vancouver - OTA, Pioneer KURO Elite Signature PRO-141FD, 27" iMac, WDTV Live. Posts: 2,779	That is good news. Any word on what 8VSB chipset the actual ATSC tuner will have?

2007-02-01, 06:20 PM	#19
co1976 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: pierrefons Posts: 4	no .he didnt seem to know to much about ota in general

2007-02-01, 06:26 PM	#20
co1976 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: pierrefons Posts: 4	I have a home a lg atsc pvr that also records 1080i and also as 2 separate audio video inputs. i got it of the lg rep in montreal and it is a great peace of equipement. i will post the model number when i get home. using it with a projector for 126 inch of hd tv. that is the good life. superbowl will be amazing.

2007-02-02, 05:49 PM	#22
stampeder OTA Forum Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North Delta, BC (96Av x 116St) Posts: 23,338	Thanks Roger, that's terrific info! For some people the lack of this type of OTA machine has been a real downer, and for some it has been the reason they haven't gone with OTA. Nice to see the upcoming analogue cutoff in the U.S. having such a good effect on the marketplace. I hope those companies will market these products in Canada!

2007-02-09, 01:28 PM	#23
WoodButcher Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Winona Ontario (near Hamilton) Posts: 25	Roger, My thanks too. I guess the next thing I would like to add to your table is Canadian release dates. I think there was mention of the Panasonic in April. Does anyone have any more dates to add?

2007-02-26, 12:39 PM	#25
timmy1 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 258	DVD vs. HDD recorders... I'm just wondering why there are so many ATSC DVD recorders announced or available, and so few HDD recorders (see post #25)? I've never used either, but at first glace HDD recording seems to be a better solution for a number of reasons -- theoretically infinite capacity w/ add-on drives, no need to down-convert, a mechanically simpler device, possible lower long-term costs (depending on how many dvds you would burn), etc. Am I missing something? Is there a strong argument in favour of DVD recording?

2007-02-26, 04:06 PM	#26
roger1818 Veteran Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Ottawa (Stittsville), ON, OTA (Radio Shack Omnidirectional Antenna and 5Y6S in Attic), MythTV HTPC Posts: 5,605	timmy1, I have heard several people with similar questions. I don't have an official answer but can only speculate that the primary issue is cost. The increased data requirements of HD necessitate larger and faster hard drives. If you also include the added cost of an ATSC tuner (some estimate that it adds an extra $100) the device probably doesn't end up meeting the price point that OEMs estimate is required for it to be successful. As the cost of hard drives and ATSC tuners come down, we may start to see more HD-HDD recorders on the market.

2007-03-14, 11:43 AM	#30
David M Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Brampton 410/Queen Posts: 29	LG brochure - USB media host? USB media host is mentioned for several models details ? Reviews ?

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