Gas Fireplace Problems - Won't Light or Stay Lit

[TKG26]

38racing: You should get that switch replaced. They are cheap. It sounds like its damged now. Who knows if it will ever trip when there is an actual spillage issue or frozen vent.

[pshelston]

Hello there,

I've got a Napoleon GD32 direct-vent gas fireplace.

Both the main burner and pilot go off after about 5 minutes of the main burner going on.

I can see that while the main burner is on, the pilot light seems to get weaker and weaker and when the flame no longer covers the thermocouple, it turns off.

The pilot seems fine on it's own (wide, blue with hints of orange at the tips) and I have cleaned it with canned compressed air, but I haven't removed it to *really* check it out (not even sure how to do that).

It doesn't seem to matter if I use the wall-switch or the "Off/Remote/On" switch in the fireplace.

Anything obvious?

[zirG]

This thread has been very helpful!

I have detemined that I will need to replace a thermocouple on my gas fireplace. Where can I find one? I saw Lowes mentioned earlier in this thread but I live in a small town and the nearest one is about a 45 minute drive. Would a well-stocked Home Hardare have them? Any other suggestions?

[TKG26]

i doubt any hardware store would have them... The thermocouples most hardware stores have are for water heaters and some very old furnaces. Many firepalces have specially fitted thermocouples... just be annoying!

online is your best bet if your not willing to pay a licence tech to do the repairs

[zirG]

Thank you KTG26

I'm looking for a thermocouple for a 1998 Kingsman gas fireplace, either online or in the Niagara region. I'm comfortable doing it myself and have a neighbor who is a gas fitter to "check my work". Thanks!

[Peter123456]

Hi,
I have a Focal Point Versailles gas fire. Last winter there was a problem keeping the pilot alight so I blew the jet out and all was fine again. This year I am having the same problem but cleaning the jet is not fixing the problem. The thermocouple sits in a nice blue flame and turn a bright red with the heat. I have been reading the posts in this thread and the excellent suggestions people have been making so maybe someone can help, please.
I guess it could be the thermocouple that is the problem but in the other posts, everyone seems to have a mains powered fire, ie the thermocouple will operate a switch / relay etc to turn the gas on to the main jets once the thermocouple has heated up.
My fire has no connection to mains electrical power but it does have a thermocouple - that is what it is called in the manual.
The thermocouple sits in the pilot flame and is a piece of "bent wire" which then goes into a bush mounted on a bracket and then to a flexible tube / cable which goes back to the control knob for turning on the pilot / gas.
Two questions:
1. If this is a true thermocouple, generating tens of mV, what does it operate back at the main control knob? Bear in mind there is no mains (230V) power supply to the fire.
2. A replacement thermocouple would presumably be the whole assembly from the part that sits in the pilot flame back to where it enters the main control knob. How easy is this to replace?
Many thanks for any comments.
Peter

[gzink]

My understanding the thermocouple generates the millivolts which operates a valve with no other power required. You could try fine sandpaper very lightly or it should be easy to unscrew thermocouple at it's valve end, if I remember correctly.

Actually read the first 2 pages of this thread.


http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/show...t=47615&page=1

[38racing]

I assume there is an on/off switch? Make sure contacts are good as it's a millvolt switch.

[JMM26]

I was using my gas fireplace last weekend and after an hour or so it just shut down. That included the pilot light. Gave it some time to cool down and tried to restart the pilot light. The pilot light would come on as long as the ignitor switch was held in. As soon as it was released it would go out. Held ignitor switch for at least 1 minute and as long as 3 minutes. The unit does have a wall switch, which was off while trying to relight. Is that correct? Any thoughts on what to check next?

[johnt2_2002]

JMM26,

sounds like a safety switch is tripped. Not sure what fireplace you have and what other controls the unit has. But , from here that's my diagnosis lol.

[goodone18]

Hi just wanted to thank people for the help given on this thread. Just wanted to add that I have been having problems with my focal point gas fire for a few days. As soon as I released the pilot the flame would go out, i ended up holding in so long my fingers hurt. So when I read this thread someone mentioned the thermocouple having a copper wire running from it so when I look at mine i followed it back to a cylinder with Dungs BM 733 on it and is called a (Multifunctional Gas Control Valve). I put my hand around the back of the valve which is directly behind the ignition switch and there is a brass nipple which the copper wire goes through. The nipple was loose so I tightened it with my fingers. When I tried to light it again it worked first time.
Something people may be able to check before buying replacement parts.

[38racing]

My daughter had her's converted from Propane to NG last year and it cost her $200. Ran after but now it won't light either. Hope it was not just a loose part as the repair guy claims it needs pilot parts to the tune of $100.

[TuhuaTarakona]

Hello everyone.

I've started from page 1 of this thread and truly appreciate the responses and ideas. A lot of similar problems within this thread!

My problems is similar as well - but I'll explain it to bring it to the forefront. I have a Kingsman FV5000 freestanding natural gas stove/heater. This is a new-to-me thing and this is the first winter using (or attempting to use). I converted the stove from propane to natural gas via a conversion kit - and it worked like a charm for a few weeks. However, it is now beginning to have similar problems to the other posts here. First, the pilot light takes forever to actually catch and stay. The flame does hit all surrounding parts - this stove having a thermocouple, ignition, pilot and thermopile. I don't see that the thermocouple is turning a 'glowing' orange, tho from having the flame right on it. The problem is that once the pilot light does stay lit and is then turned to the 'on' position - I let it hold that pilot light for a good while, 15 minutes to a half hour. I then flip the toggle switch to light the actual burners that heat, and within a couple of minutes the stove has clicked and turned itself off down to even extinguishing the pilot light.

So - any ideas? I tried to find a thermocouple at a local hardware store and what they had was one that is used in water heaters and very old furnaces. I figured, what the hey, and tried hooking it up and the flame does turn this thermocouple a glowing orange and lets the stove heat for a while, about an hour was its limit.

However, it then would kick everything off like above.

SO - what does the thermopile have to do with all of this? And any suggestions?

Thanks SO much in advance for any responses!

Tuhua

[Savage1701]

We have a Heat N Glo sealed gas insert. It has worked fine for about 10 years.

Yesterday, we tried to turn it on. Usually, when we flip the swich there is a small audible click and a second or 2 later the fire lights.

We have no problems with the pilot light. I can extinguish it and light it easily. Assuming I am putting a meter on it correctly, I am showing about 50 millivolts. The inside of the unit appears fine. The pilot has 3 jets - 2 of them hit small posts next to them, and the 3rd. one points out towards where the gas outlet holes are along the cermic "bed" of the unit, I assume to ignite the gas quickly.

One odd thing did happen, though. We accidentally switched it off and then back on quickly. There was a sort of "whoosh" of the gas lighting quickly. I read somewhere on this forum that there can be the equivalent of a "tilt switch" that, if impacted, locks out the gas system, such as if the insert took a bad hit to its side or something.

As it stands right now, I have the following situation: 1. I cleaned the small metal posts next to the pilot light and made sure there was nothing clogging the orifices on the pilot jets. They seem to be engulfing both metal posts with a strong blue flame. 2. I get a 50mV reading on the leads coming off the thermo. 3. When I flip the switch "on" I know longer hear the mechanical "click". Just nothing, and no fireplace fire, of course. If this unit is using both a pilot thermo and a gas valve thermo (2 posts on either side of pilot?) is it possible one of these is broken and I am not measuring both, only the one?

Any thoughts on this? Could that "whoosh" have set off a safety switch/impact sensor on the side of the unit? Any way to safely reset it or test it? As I said, pilot light is strong, can be put out/re-lit at will, is blue, and engulfs small metal posts to either side of it.

Needless to say, I have made sure I move the off/pilot/on switch to "on" after I have it at "pilot" (and it needs about 20-30 seconds to heat up the thermo). I have also made sure the flame control is set at about 80% of maximum, where we always have it set.

I have no problem paying someone to fix this unit, and being in Illinois it's not like I need to get someone out here tomorrow, more like August. But, if it's a simple case of resetting a safety switch, or turning the gas line on and off, etc., I'd rather do that myself.

Thanks for any help.

P.S.: I am comfortable working on this unit up to removing a gas line. That's where I don't think I am competent to safely work on a gas appliance. Also, FWIW, none of our other gas appliances have shown any issues so I doubt the unit is not receiving enough pressure/flow to have a fire. But the mechanical "click" before the fire is definitely gone, and of course, there is no smell of leaking gas either.

[TKG26]

the Thermocouple is your pilot safty circuit. IF you have a pilot and it never goes out you can assume this circuit is working fine. The thermocouple is the smaller of the two.

The power pile the larger of the two is what controls the main burner. Your power pile output when disconnected from the valve and measured should be in the 500-750millivolt range. Depending on the power pile. My first guess and its probably the number one issue when i go to a call like yours is the wall switch, you already have noticed that it no longer makes the clicking noise. To me thats your first step and its easy and safe to change your self. A brand new switch will likely fix the issue. I typically use the heavy duty 220v wall switches they have more "snap" to them and self clean the contacts.

From there check all wiring connections. millivolt systems are dependent on tight connections. and short wire runs. There is a possibility there is an inline safety switch in play here you can usually trace this through the wiring. But usually the safeties go through the pilot valve circuit.