Signal Amplifiers (Amps, Preamps, Distro Amps) - See Chart in Post #1

[Cottager]

Both UHF and VHF signals are bad, so I have a different problem.

[HWP]

The RC website states that they are currently experiencing about a 2.5% failure rate where customers return their devices for repair.

Once your antenna guy goes up and retrieves your pre-amp, maybe you can send it back for repairs.

There is a paragraph explanation at the bottom of the hdtv section of their website that addresses failure rates, and some improvements they have made to combat the problem.

Good luck.

Perhaps your RC pre-amp belongs on a tower that is easier to get at.

[re_nelson]

In recent OTA comparison tests on multiple Preamps, re_nelson determined
that there were very little performance differences in a very rural location with
no overload issues.....barely more than 1 dB difference....which is consistent
with NF's being in the very narrow range of 1-3 dB.

Well...when I first moved to Frisco, Texas about 18 years ago, it was a very rural area with a population of 3,000 or so. Since that time, it's grown to about 120,000 and has very little evidence of what was once rural. Take a look at zips 75034 and 75035 on Google's satellite view to get an idea of the population density.

Anyway, as I've alluded to before, this area does have some rural traits in terms of OTA since there's very little in the way of external QRM. Plus, it's far enough away from any broadcast RF that overload is not a factor at all. As a colleague recently put it, my location is like the Three Bears -- not too far, not too close, it's just right with the television facilities all at about 65 km SSW of here.

I'll add that I am now testing the preamps of interest (AP8700, CM-7777, CPA19, RC9263 and KT-200) using a DB8 on the UHF side. As holl_ands indicated, the variance among them is such that an average viewer would be oblivious to the differences from one to another. Still, I publish the results after sufficient data is collected with this current antenna configuration.

[BOUVAL]

Re_Nelson,

I really like and appreciate all your tests with those preamps.

Being a fan of the 4 bay antennas, I'm asking myself what would it be with the same location, same preamps and a 4 bay ?

Be sure that I would not be oblivious to the difference
.

[ZzRicezZ]

I'm able to get all channel but when I try to route the cable to the basement and use a splitter I would lose the US channels.

I have a pct-ma2-1p drop amp so I connect it in the basement before the splitter I would lose all channels. I read online that some people have used this drop amp with success. Any reason why it might not be working for me?

[ZzRicezZ]

I read someone put the amp close to the antenna while I have it in the basement. Not sure if this will make a difference or not because I can still get Canadian channels with out the amp but with it connected I lose all the channels.

[Smog]

I use mine at the antenna and the power injector near the TV.

I get good results with it.

[HWP]

Smog is describing a pre-amp. You might be better served using a pre-amp instead of a drop-amp.

Maybe a Winegard 269.

There's a ton of information on amps and pre-amps in the Signal Amplifiers thread as well as in the Welcome threads.

[dirtroad]

Is the amplifier working, power-supply, what is it's history? When you add in the amp without the splitter, does it still attenuate the US channels? Check all your connectors too. Those drop amps are two way, but there is some attenuation in the reverse direction!

[ZzRicezZ]

When I moved the drop amp closer to the antenna, I started to get back some channels. From the basement I split it up to living room and then back to the second floor bedroom. The living room can get most of the US channel but the bedroom is not able to pickup NBC. I'm guessing it is the cable length.

HWP, is there a reason why you recommended Winegard 269 over CM7777 or CM7778?

I'm located here

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...073b5943b66dd2

Thanks.

[ADTech]

High gain (over 20 dB) amplifiers intended for fringe area operation are usually easy to overload and will often create new problems instead of solving problems.

[ZzRicezZ]

My range is about 20miles for Toronto Channels and 100miles for Buffalo Channels.

So I should rule out CM7777 because it would be a problem for my Toronto.

I just got my DB4E, so I'm going to give that a try tonight, since I'm unable to put the cm4228 into my attic.

[roger1818]

^^^It depends on alignment. If Toronto and Buffalo are in the same direction, that could be a problem, but if they aren't, you should be fine. An attic mount also reduces the risk of overload as you will probably loose 10 to 20dB of signal in there.

[re_nelson]

Search back for my previous posts in this thread for the methodology I use to compare preamps. This time, the input configuration was comprised of a DB8 combined with a Y10-7-13 (for Dallas-Ft. Worth VHF facilities: 8, 9 and 11) in turn combined, via a channel 12 JoinTenna, with a YA-1713 (aimed north for channel 12).

The preamps were rotated on a daily basis over the weeks when the automated (using a Perl script) measurements were made, using the SNQ from a SiliconDust HDHR. Only the more challenging stations are listed in the chart. Here's the TV fool for this location:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...134962feab52a5

In my prior postings, the differences between the preamps were negligible. This is the first set of such scans where one (in this case, the RC-9263) was far ahead of the others.

SNQ scans from 2012-05-06 00:00 to 2012-06-18 11:00

CH       NONE   AP8700 (Diff)  CM-7777 (Diff)   CPA-19 (Diff)   KT-200 (Diff)  RC-9263 (Diff)
--       ----   -------------  --------------   -------------   -------------  --------------
 9       85.6     93.9 ( 8.3)     97.4 (11.8)     94.2 ( 8.6)     93.7 ( 8.1)     98.2 (12.6)
12       85.7     85.0 (-0.7)     86.0 ( 0.3)     85.7 ( 0.0)     84.3 (-1.4)     86.1 ( 0.4)
18       70.9     82.7 (11.8)     82.9 (12.0)     81.2 (10.3)     83.3 (12.4)     86.0 (15.1)
20       62.2     79.1 (16.9)     77.6 (15.4)     77.5 (15.3)     81.4 (19.2)     82.6 (20.4)
21       77.9     93.1 (15.2)     95.8 (17.9)     95.0 (17.1)     95.1 (17.2)     97.5 (19.6)
25       58.4     91.4 (33.0)     83.5 (25.1)     85.2 (26.8)     77.5 (19.1)     93.6 (35.2)
27       52.6     84.5 (31.9)     80.6 (28.0)     82.6 (30.0)     79.9 (27.3)     86.9 (34.3)
28       59.2     80.4 (21.2)     78.1 (18.9)     78.8 (19.6)     79.1 (19.9)     82.4 (23.2)
31       53.6     72.1 (18.5)     75.8 (22.2)     73.8 (20.2)     75.0 (21.4)     77.4 (23.8)
34       64.0     85.0 (21.0)     85.3 (21.3)     84.1 (20.1)     85.2 (21.2)     88.1 (24.1)
50       58.8     84.2 (25.4)     88.1 (29.3)     86.6 (27.8)     84.3 (25.5)     92.6 (33.8)
51       60.0     87.7 (27.7)     95.1 (35.1)     92.0 (32.0)     90.0 (30.0)     98.6 (38.6)
         ----    ------------    ------------    ------------    ------------    ------------
Average  65.7     84.9 (19.2)     85.5 (19.8)     84.7 (19.0)     84.1 (18.3)     89.2 (23.4)
         ----    ------------    ------------    ------------    ------------    ------------
NumScans   48      170             174             171             174             170

[goforit]

Nice comparison work re_nelson.
It's interesting to see the CPA-19 not doing too bad even though it's not really a heavy weight like the CM 7777 (see gain specs) and it's marketed for overload resistance.

Being only 2.5 miles from a tower, I'm keenly interested by reputed overload resistance pre-amps. In my own experience, I found the CM overload resistant pre-amp (7778) still too strong for my location, but that was back in the day when the analog flame-throwers were still running here in Canada; might be different now that they are gone.

I tried the Winegard version (HDP-269) and it did very well, but it was fragile - blowing out during storms and it seems to be rather flimsy (light plastic shell) compared to others. I'm currently using the Antennas Direct overload resistance pre-amp (CPA-19) and I am quite pleased with the performance when paired with a 91XG and C5 - it gets me the weaker Buffalo stations WNYO (RF 49, -4.4 NM, 75 miles, 2 edge) and WBBZ (RF 7, +2.5 NM, 71 miles, 2 edge) solidly even though I'm very close to a transmitter as mentioned; but the performance might be different during the winter.

I think of trying the CM 7778 again (now that the analogs have shut down); it is attractive for the separate UHF/VHF inputs and FM trap. There is also the new Antennacraft overload resistance pre-amp (10G221) that similarly has separate inputs and FM trap, but the AD pre-amp has been good so far even without separate inputs and FM trap...