Signal Amplifiers (Amps, Preamps, Distro Amps) - See Chart in Post #1

[balm]

jdemaris,

what type of specifics should I discuss, I assume cable length, splitters, frequencies...am I forgetting anything

[jdemaris]

Originally Posted by balm

jdemaris,

what type of specifics should I discuss, I assume cable length, splitters, frequencies...am I forgetting anything

When I contacted Research Commincations, I was concerned with using their 8 volt power supply because my coax run was almost 600 feet. I also asked why I couldn't use a locally sourced power supply instead of having one shipped here from England. I was worried there might be enough voltage drop to cause the amp not to work. That's when Ellen told me they use a higher 10 or 12 volt power supply for long runs - and anything up to 20 VDC would be OK. My question opened up that particular subject. I suppose they don't often get asked questions like that - but can't say for sure.

I get worried about voltage drops with all long wire runs - to the preamp or to the rotator. With rotators, I tend to use 14/2 UF direct-burial cable just to be safe, even though most rotators can be made to work with 18 gauge.
Note, I'm too cheap to buy 14/3 UF. 14/2 has a third uninsulated 14 gauge wire that gives me my third lead and works just fine.

[Daemons]

Originally Posted by mlord

Actually, my current recommendation is KitzTech -- incredible bang for the buck from them right now. I'd take that over CM any day.

mlord,
I had a look at their website and was wondering which version you bought. I don't know if I'll need one yet as I'm still waiting on materials to build my M4, but I'm looking into amps just in case.
The website doesn't have much info on the coax version I was thinking might be good for me. If it does a good job, I'd get one instead of a CM7777 which I find a bit pricey. I like that it's adjustable. Do you use yours inside or outside? If outside, what enclosure are you using?

Marc

[balm]

jdemaris,

my coax run was almost 600 feet

Wow, are you feeding all your neighbors...

You see for me its well under 100 ft, so the higher voltage source was a bit of a concern to Ellen in terms of overheating the pre-amp, this is why she would prefer 7 volts as opposed to the common 12 volts supply found here

[intravino]

I had a look at their website and was wondering which version you bought. I don't know if I'll need one yet as I'm still waiting on materials to build my M4, but I'm looking into amps just in case.
The website doesn't have much info on the coax version I was thinking might be good for me. If it does a good job, I'd get one instead of a CM7777 which I find a bit pricey. I like that it's adjustable. Do you use yours inside or outside? If outside, what enclosure are you using?

Marc

I have the new coax version of the Kitz Tech amp or pre-amp.

I did some basic test of the coax version and the results look like the same as the regular version.

Here's a test I did with the regular version :

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=956786&postcount=1132

But you have to take in consideration that the amps were tested with only one antenna (except CM7777) and if you put the Kitz after a UVSJ, you will get a small lost.

For the enclosure, I went to Addison, just minutes away from your location in walking distance, they have a weather proof enclosure for Five bucks.

At my location in Beloeil far from the big transmitters of Montréal, I find the CM7777 is the best for me.

I will do a full report of the new coax feed Kitz with a hacked 4221HD pointed at St. Albans for W52CD CH52.

Up to now, I find the Kitz to be good for connecting to one specialty or secondary antenna for trying to catch some low powered channel like W52CD or WVNY-DT.


My two cents,

[mlord]

Originally Posted by jdemaris

Might depend on when, and what exactly you asked. I asked several very specific questions. Ellen responded with very specific answers - and I found that refreshing for a change.

Yes, Ellen and mates are great!

That 3-week old 9260 is indeed different from my 12-month old 9260 (and the 24-month old 92xx I had before that), as well as the slightly newer 9254 here.

On mine, the regulator is a lighter weight onboard unit, with no fuse. Whereas your 9260 has the fuse and the heavier duty regulator bonded to the metal casing for heat dissipation.

I suppose it's possible you got that version because of asking about very long cable runs and the like. It will be more tolerant of higher voltages (heat) than the lighter duty regulator in the ones I have.

I think it's very cool that RC continue to evolve and improve their products on the fly, and possibly tailor them to specific needs.

Ah.. the advantages of in-house hand-built production!

Cheers

[mlord]

Originally Posted by Daemons

[re: KitzTech] I had a look at their website and was wondering which version you bought.

I bought/tested one of their original "indoor" units, and was amazed at how much it improved the analog signals I used it for. I also installed it briefly outdoors, high on my tower where the RC9260 normally resides. It was not as good as the RC there, but better than the CM 777x I had once tried.

Intravino later borrowed, and then bought, that unit from me, and I ended up replacing it with a second (bargain basement 3rd-hand) RC pre-amp. But I have since recommended the KitzTech to all comers, and some pals of mine have reported good success with it to date.

Intravino's original unit (from me), unfortunately suffered an early death, but was replaced under warranty I believe.

Cheers

[intravino]

Intravino's original unit (from me), unfortunately suffered an early death, but was replaced under warranty I believe.

Yes, that's 100 % correct. I asked Kitz to upgrade me to their coax powered version at the same time with a minor surcharge. He agreed (Kitz).

I just have to fully test it but it looks 100 % the same as the previous one.

[Daemons]

Originally Posted by intravino

I have the new coax version of the Kitz Tech amp or pre-amp.

I did some basic test of the coax version and the results look like the same as the regular version.

Here's a test I did with the regular version :

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=956786&postcount=1132

But you have to take in consideration that the amps were tested with only one antenna (except CM7777) and if you put the Kitz after a UVSJ, you will get a small lost.

Noted. But still, very impressive indeed.

For the enclosure, I went to Addison, just minutes away from your location in walking distance, they have a weather proof enclosure for Five bucks.

Yep, just down the street from here. I'm guessing you mean those gray electrical box enclosure (with the rubber sceal)?
I'll have a look at what they have next time.

I wanted more info about what was included with the coax version, and this is the email I got from Jeffrey at Kitz Technologies :

Q: There are no picture of the COAX model, can you supply pictures of the unit and what is included with this model? Do you include a power inserter module, or do I need a separate run of coax all the way to the unit?

A: We don't have a current picture of the COAX model yet.
This model comes with an amplifier, power inserter and power supply.
You do not need an extra coax for power.

Had to make sure, right? Figured I'd ask.

Originally Posted by mlord

I bought/tested one of their original "indoor" units, and was amazed at how much it improved the analog signals I used it for. I also installed it briefly outdoors, high on my tower where the RC9260 normally resides. It was not as good as the RC there, but better than the CM 777x I had once tried.

Intravino later borrowed, and then bought, that unit from me, and I ended up replacing it with a second (bargain basement 3rd-hand) RC pre-amp. But I have since recommended the KitzTech to all comers, and some pals of mine have reported good success with it to date.

Thanks for the info intravino & mlord.
I'll wait till my M4 is up and running to see if I need additional boost.
Since I already ordered a 3414 for my setup, I'll wait and see if it helps.

Marc

[balm]

Daemons,

Just keep in mind that mlord, and Intravino, are not in the same situation, location as us, on the island of Montreal,

generally, here in Montreal, I have found, so far, that the preamps do not help any..

I have tried the Kitztech, CM7777, Antra, GE, and CM3410 amps, none of which were impressive, still others did get improvements. It will ONLY depend on YOUR particular set-up, and location in the end. This basically calls for "trial & error" with the amps, and spending $ each time unless you can borrow. Returns are generally not accepted or not worth the trouble depending where you buy from.

[intravino]

Yep, just down the street from here. I'm guessing you mean those gray electrical box enclosure (with the rubber sceal)?

Maybe not, the are like off white or light gray with the seal inside of seal package with the scews.

Here is the picture of the box, thanks to MLord :

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=995548&postcount=1436


For the picture of the Kitz, Peano has a picture:


http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/album.php?albumid=211&pictureid=1478

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by balm

generally, here in Montreal, I have found, so far, that the preamps do not help any..

On the island you will be very close to the analog transmitters on Mt. Royal and they can overload your pre-amp. I can't remember which ones are the worst offenders, but seem to remember reading that there are two that need to be notched out (I think one was 17 and the other was in the 30's). Also, unless the pre-amp has separate VHF and UHF amps, you will likely need to filter out VHF. All this should be done before the pre-amp.

[Daemons]

Originally Posted by balm

It will ONLY depend on YOUR particular set-up, and location in the end. This basically calls for "trial & error" with the amps, and spending $ each time unless you can borrow. Returns are generally not accepted or not worth the trouble depending where you buy from.

Thats why I will wait and see if I need one or not. My being in the east end means I too am in a different situation than you are in. Different angle to different towers, etc.
The Kitz does offer a 10day return if not satisfied, so it's less risky.

Originally Posted by intravino

Maybe not, the are like off white or light gray with the seal inside of seal package with the scews.

I'll have a look next time I visit. Thanks for the pictures. I like peano's grey box setup. I might do something like that.

Marc

[balm]

Also, unless the pre-amp has separate VHF and UHF amps, you will likely need to filter out VHF.

im not sure I understand, are you saying the VHF overloads because of the local VHF analogs

[intravino]

Thats why I will wait and see if I need one or not. My being in the east end means I too am in a different situation than you are in. Different angle to different towers, etc.
The Kitz does offer a 10day return if not satisfied, so it's less risky.

Raybel in Montreal-East, do take back stuff but the box, instructions, bags and cables have to be in the same condition like when it came out of store.

I returned a eaves mounting system with no hassles but I was very careful with the bags and stuff.

Raybel have the CM 7777, CM 7778 and the Winegard amps.