ON - City of Toronto Metro Area <OUTDOOR Antennas Only> - OTA

[mpetitchou]

Hi – I am looking for advice with respect to the type of antenna. I live in mid-town Toronto (Davisville and Mount Pleasant).

See TV Fool report at - http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...4033378166e8f6

A technician using a Channel Master 4228HD antenna attached to his vehicle (20 feet high) was able to get excellent signal strength on all stations except those with NM(dB) numbers less than 17.3 and Hamilton stations at 210 degrees (true). Given the narrow reception range of the 4228HD, he pointed the antenna at the Buffalo stations at 148 to 153 degrees (true). With this, reception was excellent on the Buffalo stations and the Toronto stations. There was no reception for the Hamilton stations Sun, E! and CTS. I am not sure if a pre-amp was used but the form provided does state “23 digital channels with amp”. I didn’t see a pre-amp. I only saw what was described as a digital tuner for the old TV that was used to show the reception.

I have installed the mast and RG6 cable. The mast is approximately 25 feet high at its peak and is located at the gable end at the south end of my bungalow. This info was used as the basis for the TV Fool report. Cable length to TV (Sanyo HD LCD-32E3) from proposed antenna location is approximately 80 feet.

As the TV Fool report shows, the CN Tower is 4.2 miles and 181 degrees (true) south. Buffalo antennas are 52 to 83 miles distant and in a band 151 degrees to 158 degrees (true) to the south east.

Antenna recommendations have included a Channel Master 4221HD or 4228HD and an Antennas Direct DB8 antenna and either a Channel Master or Winegard pre-amp. My priorities are Canadian channels (except Hamilton), PBS and then the remainder of the Buffalo channels. As a result, I would be happy with the channels obtained in the test.

My concern is that the Channel Master 4221 and the DB8 may suffer from overloading because of the close presence of the CN Tower and their broader directional beam width.

My inclination is to go with the CM 4228 with its narrower 15 degree beam width and comparable gain - and then point the antenna off to the side of the CN Tower and more directly at the Buffalo stations as was done in the test – and rely upon the strong signal from the CN Tower to compensate for the fact that the antenna is not pointed directly at it. I would be interested in the Antennas Direct DB8 in order to pick up the Hamilton stations but not if it creates an overload problem with the antenna pointed directly at the CN Tower in order to pick up both Hamilton and Buffalo.

Whatever antenna selected I intend to try the antenna first without a pre-amp and then determine what pre-amp (and applicable gain) is required given the strength of the signals received from the antenna over the 80 feet of cable to my TV. I have no current plans to split the signal but may do so in the future.

Any Recommendations?

[vap57]

mpetitchou...I would consider a ClearStream 2, a wonderful antenna that defies its size. You may also want to consider Antenna's Direct new DB2e or DB4e, as they have created some buzz since they were released in November.

[Bjorn416]

mpetitchou,
There is another member located just south of you (St. Clair & Mt. Pleasant) who have tried several different antennas, including the ones you mention.

You’ll get a good idea of how they might perform for you. Have a look at his posts, starting on page 132, post#1973 – if you haven’t done so already.

[mpetitchou]

Bjorn416

Many thanks. I don't recall reading this particular post. I may have seen some of Attach's earlier posts. Nevertheless this post is very telling. My test results were slightly better. For some reason I pulled in ION but like Attach I am more interested in the same stations and would be happy with the stations he gets - and has bolded in his list. Thinking back - I suspect that my test was done without an amp also - but with a stronger antenna (4228HD) and higher elevation. I am just north of Davisville/Mount Pleasant on the rise. Attach also raises the additional concern with respect to trees/leaves. I have the same issue/concern as the test was done when there were no leaves on the trees. There is a pear tree in my next door neighbors yard and some tall deciduous trees in my back neighbors yard (although LOS to CN Tower - not Buffalo). I also have an additional cable run of 20 feet (80 feet in total). I think this seals the deal. I will get a 4228HD and test it without an amp. I read one post that suggested a Winegard HDP-269 which has a relatively low gain for situations where you have good signal strength but may want to overcome additional cable length and an installed splitter. But I guess I will cross that Rubicon when I get to it.

Thanks again & Merry Christmas to you and vap57 for responding to my question.

[Bjorn416]

Don’t have any personal experience with commercial antennas (I built mine), so can’t comment on reception for those.

Attach reported changing his antenna once or twice after the CM 4221HD he reported on in post #1973 (forget what the changes were). Suggest you read his later post and the comments by others, or you can use “advanced search” to isolate his posts only.

I’m just SW of Eglinton & Avenue Rd., so the separation between Toronto and Buffalo stations is only about 12 deg. for me, while yours is more than twice that. For me, the Winegard HDP-269 preamp made my reception worse, but that may have something to do with the lack of separation between strong Toronto stations and much weaker Buffalo ones. You may get better results with a preamp like the HDP-269. You are welcome to try mine, since I’m not using it with my current antenna. Send me a PM (Private Message) with your contact info if you want to try it.

The signal loss caused by an additional 20 ft of coax is negligible. A two-way splitter will cause a loss of 3.5 db.

Merry Christmas to you, too.

[johnner]

Hi Guys,

ok so I've finally got my antenna up and need some advice on reception. Here are my details first of all

located at Christie & Dupont.

1) Clearstream 2 antenna mounted about 8ft above peaked roof on 2.5 story home on a mast (so its about 30 ft above ground level) (in big winds the mast does sway a little bit, is that a concern?)

2) tvfool report: link

3) Also using a Channel master 3414 distribution amp (located near the antenna).

4) using RG6 wire purchased from saveandreplay as well as their cable ends (not sure what to call them) but they have a red sleeve to them.

5) cable runs through a basic grounding block which is grounded to a grounding rod using copper wire.

6) antenna is pointing approx 140 degrees (magnetic) and this is the odd part, I get NBC best in this direction even though that is not what matches with my fool report?? odd I am basically pointing it directly at the CN tower when really I should be pointing it to the west of the tower.

also there is not much physically in the way just the tops of a couple trees farther down the block.

the issue i have is my main ATCS tuner is in my TIVO premiere and true to some of the reviews I have read, its not the most capable receiver since I am able to get most channels using my TV's tuner, but nothing shows on my Tivo for all the US channels (abc, nbc, fox)

channels i get on the TV's tuner (signal strength) i get all toronto channels fine, nice and clear.

2-1, 2-2 (40) (its weak sometimes)
5-1 (92)
7-1 (62)
9-1 (85)
19-1 (86)
25-1 (92)
29-1 (77)
29-2 (77)
36-1 (weak)
41-1, 41-2 (82)
47-1 (90)
49-1, 49-2 (42)
57-1 (92)
69-1 (87)

Notable channels that I can not get AT ALL no matter what direction I point the antenna

cbs (4-1)
pbs (17-1)
51-1
64-1
26-1 (this one is edge 1 so again not expecting miracles on this one either)
67-1 (wasn't really expecting to get this)

so my question is, especially for those of you with TIVO's what can I do about this?

1) Will a pre-amp help or just make things worse for the channels that are coming in and if so what would be the best one. and is a pre-amp mounted up by the antenna, or can it be inside behind the tv?

2) if not a pre-amp any other suggestions for boosting the signal to the TIVO)

thanks so much!

[El Gran Chico]

Johnner, I use a CM 7778 pre-amp with my TiVo and it works great. My guess (and I do mean "guess") is that that distribution amp might not be friendly with the TiVo. Unfortunately I think there's only one way to find out for sure - try it.

For sure, my TiVo's tuner performs worse than my HDTV's tuner, so no surprise the weak ones on your HDTV don't show up on the TiVo.

Hope this helps.

[johnner]

El Gran,

thanks so much. I tried hooking the antenna up directly to the TIVO as well (bypassing the distribution amp) and that didnt make any difference. I will get the preamp a try then and hopefully get better results that way.

also my understanding is the tivo records 2 channels off of the one cable is that your understanding?

Cheers!

John

[Jakeman3]

Hi Guys,

I've had two installs on my roof, originally a Winegard 7698 combo, and now a two antenna's, DB4e (UHF) and a YA1713 (VHF) fed into a CM7778.

I prefer my new setup, but I have had consistent problems with WKBW with both antenna setups.

The channel is basically unwatchable due to consistent periodic audio dropouts. While the channel shows consistent signal strength of around 82%, about every 60 seconds the audio will dropout momentarily..

My only assumption is that it may be a faulty pre-amp, but I'm open to suggestions you may have.

[Jase88]

I seem to recall others complaining of this issue with WKBW....

[mrpeter105]

Hi:

Just checking now and it seems i'm experiencing something similar. But i'm noticing what happens is that I get a slight knock on the signal meter with audio only dropouts and also sometimes audio/video dropouts. Some type of multipath I would guess. If it was the preamp I would think you would be having issues on other channels. Also 2 different antennas and tvs exhibited some breakup at the same time.

P.S. I guess it could also be on their end if others are experiencing it.

[Schmerpy]

JAKEMAN3, your problem with WKBW is not yours - I suspect it's their problem.

I have had the same problem with WKBW ever since going OTA over a year ago. As a result, I always watch the program WKBW is showing on a Canadian network.

Incidentally, I had exactly the same problem with CityTV in September, but it went away after a few weeks.

[Jakeman3]

Schemerpy, really?? wouldn't everyone be complaininng if it was really a station issue?
Can I ask where you are located? I did a search and found one other complaint like mine and realized that we were basically in the same neighberhood..

[Jase88]

I asked in the OTA Status thread for Buffalo and area about the WKBW issue, and Majortom, who's from the area, did find an old report about the issue (see this post).

The suspicion is the issue could be related to over-amplification. It may be that a CM7778 is too strong, especially if you're close to the CN Tower. Some tuners don't handle strong signals as well....

[trisportgirl]

Hey everyone, I'm just looking into this for the first time so I'd really appreciate any pointers. I have some specific questions that don't seem to be covered elsewhere, so bear with me if they sound somewhat ridiculous.

First of all, my TV Fool report is here.

I mostly watch CTV, City and Global (online atm since I *gasp* don't have cable). I am on the fourth floor, facing south (yay!) but there is an office building blocking my view of the CN tower unless I am in a particular corner of my balcony. Being in an apartment, I can't have a huge antenna hanging off my balcony, so are there any outdoor antennas that would be small enough? Is there even a way to get the cable inside since I can't exactly punch a hole in the wall?

Thanks!