ON - City of Toronto Metro Area <INDOOR Antennas Only> - OTA

[Goldielover]

If you want to try it I'd recommend picking up a Terk from somewhere that has a decent return policy, and make sure you keep all packaging and paperwork. That way you can take it back if it doesn't work out. You never know until you try, but being down low isn't really the best. If you can manage to catch a reasonable bounced signal, facing north east from your location may not be that bad - and probably better than if you faced north west as far as Buffalo channels are concerned.

[Hamburger]

I used to have unobstructed south line of sight to the CN tower and lake, and received about 25 channels regularly, using a cheap monopole antenna, but now I'm at Richmond and Simcoe, facing west. If I go onto the balcony I can look south--into the units of part of my building or at another building-- no direct line of sight to the lake or CN tower-- just buildings. I'm on the 14th floor and with the monopole antenna indoors, I can only get the Canadian channels regularly. I got the CW-23 briefly one afternoon a couple weeks ago, but since then have not been able to get anything on 23.

Here is my current TV Fool Report


I want to have all of the channels that I used to have (NBC, CW, CBS, PBS, ABC), so I'm leaning towards getting the DB4-e. I have a balcony but my building doesn't allow antennas outside-- I still might put it out there if I'm desperate, but I'd like to try to keep indoors. Can I just lean it against the glass door of the balcony, or does it need to be mounted so that it doesn't touch the floor? How will having it on the floor or leaning against a wall or window affect reception?

Is the DB4-e is a good choice or would you recommend something else?

Thanks!

[Goldielover]

I have an Antennas Direct C2V which I have mounted on an IKEA lamp pole. This allows me to use it on the balcony during decent weather, and also to move it indoors during the winter, or if management throws a hissy fit about it. I am west facing on the tenth floor in mid town Toronto, and I routinely get 24 - 26 channels with this set up. WGRZ 2.1 is not always 100% reliable, but I can usually get it in the summer if I move the antenna a bit. I don't get it in the winter usually. During the winter, my problem channel is CBC 5.1. My work around for that is to have my Terk HDTVi connected as well and set up for 5.1, and just use an A/B switch to move back and forth between antennas.

I chose the C2V because it is smaller than a 4 bay antenna like the DB4e yet still has a decent range, and also because of its VHF capabilities. Facing west like you are, you may find you do better if you can find a decent "building bounce" location to aim your antenna at. I get most of my signals bounced off a nearby building just to the northwest of me.

Play around with the positioning of your antenna (whichever you choose) but you will most likely find it will work better higher up, especially if you have metal balcony panels that may obstruct signals.

[dheian]

i second what Goldielover said. My tv watching is based solely on reflected signals. I feel like the senior's building up the street is a big dish.

[Hamburger]

Thanks for your replies! I might try out that IKEA lamp pole idea Did you buy a J-mount to mount it on the IKEA pole or did you fashion something yourself?

[Goldielover]

I didn't need to buy anything extra at all. I had an old NOT lamp I was going to throw out because the shade was broken, and a replacement shade was not available. I took the top section and wires off the pole, and clamped the antenna onto the pole using the clamp that is part of the antenna. The C2V is not a heavy antenna - I'm not sure the NOT pole, which is lightweight, could handle a heavier antenna. A heavier duty lamp pole probably could. I don't trust it in a really high wind, and will usually move it indoors if a big storm is threatening. I don't want to tie it down permanently in any way. It is very useful for DXing to have it mobile, and I am often to be found out on the balcony on a hot summer evening playing with the positioning to see what interesting goodies I can haul in.

[Hamburger]

I had one of those NOT lamps a few years ago, and it stopped working. At the time I tried to think of something to do with it, but couldn't, so I threw it away. I was thinking I could also use an old tripod. I will have to see how heavy the antenna is.

Do you use flat RG6 or weatherproof RG6 cables when you put it outside? I'm still not sure if I should try putting it outside or not. I don't know how picky the neighbours are.

[Goldielover]

The C2V came with 30' of RG6 cabling including a weather boot. My balcony slider and screen are always open about a quarter inch because of the cable, which is not a problem in the summer and in the winter it comes inside anyways. So far I've not had any complaints about it, although I'm not really supposed to have it out there. Its not really that visible, and because the C2V is a rather strange looking beastie, many people may not even recognize it as being an antenna. They may just think I have some weird form of ornamentation. I'm not sure a lamp pole by itself would be tall enough for a DB4e. The C2V is only 20" tall, as opposed to the DB4e at 37". I have it clamped at the top of the pole, and it only just clears the balcony railings. A larger antenna probably wouldn't. The mounting clamps for both antennas are in the middle, so the bottom end of a DB4E would end up being almost 20" lower than the top of your lamp pole. The bottom of mine is only 11" lower than the top of the pole, and clears the railings by about an inch. If you have glass balcony panels this may not be a huge issue for you, although you'd get better results with it raised above the balcony railings. I have metal panels, so I had no choice but to get the antenna above them. I also don't know how much the DB4e weighs. I had a look at the documentation on the Antennas Direct website, but they don't say. It is almost twice the height and width of the C2V, so the reflector is bound to be heavier, but the figure eight shaped element on the front of the C2V definitely has some weight to it, and probably outweighs the bow ties on the front of the DB4e.

[Hamburger]

I got the DB4e today, moved it around the balcony(faces west) and could not get any Buffalo channels. Then I moved it inside by another west facing window but more north than the balcony, and I can get Channel 49 and if I hold it a certain way, it can scan 23 enough to pick it up, but the signal hasn't been strong enough to display anything yet. And I get those channel 26 stations that I will be deleting.

I'm not sure what else I can do at this point to try and get PBS, or the CW. My original goal included NBC, CBS and ABC, but now I think I would be happy enough with PBS and the CW.

This is my channel line up now:
5, 9, 19, 25, 25, 26, 36, 40, 41, 49, 57 --> all are watchable

23, 28(TVO), 69 --> added during channel scan but not watchable

I'm using the ~8ft RG-59 cable that came with my Channel Master 7000-PAL, I don't know using RG6 would make a difference.

I've tried with the bowties facing out and turned it around to have them face in towards the building and all kinds of different orientations on the balcony, as far as the cable would reach and then also tried inside as well. The best so far is sitting on the windowsill with the bowties facing outside.

Any ideas on what else I could try? Should I have bought a different antenna? Or am I just in a terrible OTA zone with no hope?

[Goldielover]

I face west and get most Buffalo channels with the exception of WBBZ and subchannels on 67, and 49 WNYO. I see those occasionally during periods of tropo. WGRZ can be a little flaky sometimes, but quite watchable most of the time.

If you have a building to the northwest of you that is reasonably unobstructed, then try aiming at that. Many of us get bounced signals which work just fine that way. I usually have my antenna aimed at the building to my northwest, unless I am either trying to pick up WGRZ, which requires my antenna to be directly south (southeast would be better, but concrete walls are in the way), or am trying for tropo channels in Erie or Cleveland, which require my antenna to be southwest.

This is my usual summer channel list, not including the tropo channels. Winter is similar, but WGRZ isn't reliable in the winter. That list is with the C2V. I get similar with the Terk HDTVi used indoors, but the signal strength is a bit lower, WGRZ is not reliable at any time and WUTV can be a bit flaky at times as well.

2.1 WGRZ-HD Buffalo
2.2 WGRZ-AT Buffalo
4.1 WIVB Buffalo
5.1 CBLT Toronto
7.1 WKBW Buffalo
9.1 CFTO Toronto
11.1 CHCH Hamilton
17.1 WNED-HD Buffalo
17.2 WNED-SD Buffalo
17.3 WNED-TH Buffalo
19.1 TVO Toronto
23.1 WNLO Buffalo
25.1 CBLFT Toronto
26.1 WNYB-SD Jamestown
26.2 WNYB-HD Jamestown
26.3 WNYBSD2 Jamestown
26.4 WNYBSD3 Jamestown
28.1 TVO Kitchener
29.1 WUTV Buffalo
29.2 TCN Buffalo
36.1 CITS Hamilton
41.1 CIII-HD Toronto
41.2 CIII-SD Toronto
47.1 CFMT Toronto
57.1 CITY Toronto
69.1 CJMT Toronto

[Spiritflare]

Hi

I have an old (1992) sharp TV model CC21S10. I no longer wish to subscribe to cable. I reside in a residential area in the Don Mills area (404 and Sheppard).

I bought some rabbit ear antenna from The Source a few years back and decided to try plugging it into the RF cable input on my TV. The antenna is Nexxtech VHF/FM indoor antenna model 1511863.
It cost around $29 at the time.

I switch my TV from cable to AIR and scan channels. Result is nothing.

I then took a long piece of coax running from my TV and took it outside on my balcony and connected the other end via a female adaptor to the same antenna. Result again is nothing except maybe when I orient the antenna or move the ears the channel 3 gets darker on the TV but absolutely no image.

What am I doing wrong? I do admit in my residential area I do not have clear LOS to the CN tower but I was under impression I'd pick a few channels up.

So far nothing. Some advice would be appreciated.

[Jase88]

Spiritflare, welcome to the OTA forums.

Over the air television became fully digital as of August 31, 2011 in the Toronto area. Your older TV doesn't have a digital tuner.

Fortunately, digital tuner set-top boxes are affordable. I recommend that you check the ATSC Converter Boxes (Non-HD, Non-Recording) thread to get started.

These forums have plenty of info to get you started.

[Spiritflare]

Thank you Sir I will check it out!

[dheian]

welcome aboard Spiritflare!

Just an FYI, I don't have a LOS to the CN tower either but get 20+ channels by pointing my antenna at a building north of me and catching the reflections. Goldielover does the same thing. I ditched Rogers 16 months ago so it is possible.

[Goldielover]

Spiritflare, your older television should work quite well with a digital converter box. We have two older televisions, one hooked up to a Channelmaster D2A, and the other to a more basic AccessHD. Both get good results with either one of my antennas (Antennas Direct C2V and Terk HDTVi).

I checked out your antenna on The Source's website, and it does not have a UHF loop - just the VHF dipoles. You will do much better with an antenna that is UHF capable, as most local channels broadcast on UHF. Your current antenna may not get much more than 9.1 CFTO Toronto, and possibly 11.1 CHCH Hamilton, both of which broadcast on VHF.

I don't have direct LOS to the Tower, and get my signal bounced off a nearby building. I get 26 channels in the summer when the C2V is out on the balcony, and 24 in the winter when I use a combination of the C2V and the HDTVi indoors. If you haven't already done so, I recommend running a TV Fool report to see what sort of potential you may have for your location and height. It is only an estimate - I actually do somewhat better than my TV Fool report says I should, but it does give one an idea of what you might get.