CityTV approved for transitional digital license - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

dialog_gvf · 2003-01-09, 05:57 PM

As was announced elsewhere on the forum:

CRTC 2003-8 announcement

That means they can start showing 14 hours a week of HD content that differs from the shows on the regular station, as long as half of it is Canadian content.

Flip the switch!

otown47 · 2003-01-09, 07:03 PM

Does anyone know if the CRTC has defined what HD is ????

dialog_gvf · 2003-01-09, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by otown47

Does anyone know if the CRTC has defined what HD is ????

Canada has adopted the ATSC standard, so HD is 720p or 1080i.

City will probably be 1080i, since WB is and much of the HD content will initially be from them.

bolmsted · 2003-01-09, 08:35 PM

CityTV doesn't air sports either so 720p really isn't to their advantage considering that the vast majority of sets display at 1080i. ABC/ESPN is like the only stations that differ on this.

BTW see similar thread with regards to topic here

otown47 · 2003-01-09, 08:52 PM

Let me ask the question a different way.

I expect that a lot of what we will see on City HD will be simultaneously broadcasted on a US HD network....as is the case nowdays with Global, CH, CTV, etc. In these cases we will not get to see the US version.

If city airs a FOX EDTV broadcast, will this count as HD in Canada and will we be able to see the US version if it is broadcast simultaneously.

dialog_gvf · 2003-01-09, 09:46 PM

Fortunately, those networks are the WB and UPN, for which we have never had an analogue channel on cable.

MI-2 is a Paramount picture. And City shows Enterprise (UPN).

Their first HD show will be Smallville (from the WB). And I believe I read that they'll be showing at least one Warner Bros. movie a month in HD. Gotta start somewhere, right?

I believe both the WB and UPN broadcast HD in 1080i.

jvillain · 2003-01-09, 10:03 PM

I could have this wrong but ... . Wasn't there some thing in the CRTC's HDTV regs about any thing shot in widescreen had to be shown in wide screen? Wouldn't that limit the amount of SD they could slip you on the HD channel?

dialog_gvf · 2003-01-10, 02:01 AM

Quote:

6. The licensee shall ensure that all programs that are simulcast on the undertaking, and that are available to the licensee in a wide screen (16:9 aspect ratio) format, are also broadcast in that format.

7. The licensee shall ensure that all programs that are simulcast on the undertaking during the evening broadcast period, and that are available to the licensee in HD, are also broadcast in HD.

They are only required to broadcast in the form they get it. It bans pan & scanning of widescreen, and rate-shifting of HD.

This is a transitional simulcast license. Not a new channel. The distinction is very important. This channel is intended to be the future CityTV channel. Eventually the license for the analogue channel will be revoked.

They are specifically required to simulcast the analogue station, however, this simulcast can be (and is required to increasingly be) HD. To allow MORE HD, sooner, the license also allows a maximum 14 hours per week of DIFFERENT content from the analogue channel. As long as it is ALL in HD, and 50% is Canadian content.

otown47 · 2003-01-10, 08:35 AM

Sorry but I'm confused here...all this bureaucracy....

Does a FOX ED broadcast count as HD and can it be simalcasted??

Some (if not most) of the ABC HD movies are 4:3 movies with the top and bottom cut off. Are these movies HD as defined by the CRTC ???

Thanks...

dialog_gvf · 2003-01-10, 09:58 AM

Good questions.

First: EDTV.

If the CRTC is using the proper definitions in the ATSC standard, that would NOT qualify. HDTV is the three 720p and three 1080i rates defined under the standard. FOX is using what is called under the ATSC standard SDTV.

The term EDTV has come along to refer to 16:9 @ 480p, because people felt that SDTV was an innaccurate discription. The term EDTV isn't in the ATSC standard, I don't think. EDTV should be as good as anamorphic DVD.

But, I think it is fair to look for a clarification. And nail City if they attempt to pass of EDTV as part of the DIFFERENT 14 hours that is required to be HD.

Second: Re-matteing

I do not think the CRTC is going to get into a position if judging whether one broadcast or another constitutes REAL widescreen. There is a lawsuit right now that claims MGM is re-matteing P&S as widescreen. And the 2nd and 3rd Back to the Future discs were subjected to that and Universal is re-issuing.

The CRTC rules say you can't change the 16:9 aspect ratio, and can't downgrade the bit-rate of the content available to you. The rules aren't there to start making judgement on the quality or accurateness of the content. Merely to insure that the source isn't messed with because the broadcaster thinks "people want 4:3" or "we need reduce the bandwidth to pack more stations".

You decide on the quality or accurateness of the content with your viewing choices.

You'll note that the CRTC differentiates between widesreen content and HD content. HD is always widescreen. So, that would indicate they see the two concepts as being different, and implies they understand that you can have widescreen without HD (EDTV).

Cdn_Photo · 2003-01-10, 10:55 AM

The IPG on Rogers has been updated to show MI-2 starting at 9:00 on Thursday.

It's still listed as CDTV, but at least the movie is added in correctly.

This is going to be an interesting week for HDTV. Superbowl and Citytv in HD.

otown47 · 2003-01-10, 04:02 PM

If you miss MI2 on City you can catch it on ABC later in the month. Should be interesting to compare the quality.

JohnnyG · 2003-01-13, 05:46 PM

Quote:

The term EDTV has come along to refer to 16:9 @ 480p, because people felt that SDTV was an innaccurate discription. The term EDTV isn't in the ATSC standard, I don't think. EDTV should be as good as anamorphic DVD.

You are correct that 480p is SDTV as far as ATSC is concerned. EDTV is a CEA term.

Also, you might want to read the CRTC rules & regs again governing the transision to DTV. Most of the 'rules' are really voluntary. There is no penalty for not following the 'rules', but they threaten that penalties COULD be defined at some point in the future, if they see a need for it.

dialog_gvf · 2003-01-13, 11:31 PM

Probably best don't you think? I don't really want the CRTC to be a police force.

But the concept of a transitional license is that your old frequency is going to be revoked at some point. I think it serves to keep the broadcasters in line. Breaking the rules won't allow them keep the old one alive when the CRTC pulls the analogue plug, and presumably the transitional one needs to be converted to a new regular license at some point too.

JohnnyG · 2003-01-14, 02:36 PM

Gary, my point was that you keep stating that CityTV HAS to offer this much of this and this much of that, but really they do not because like I said, most of the CRTC 'rules' are really just suggestions.

In other words, don't be surprised if 99.5% of the programming on City's DTV channel is an upconverted simulcast of their analog channel.

2003-01-09, 05:57 PM	#1
dialog_gvf Veteran Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Downtown Toronto, ON Posts: 2,130	CityTV approved for transitional digital license As was announced elsewhere on the forum: CRTC 2003-8 announcement That means they can start showing 14 hours a week of HD content that differs from the shows on the regular station, as long as half of it is Canadian content. Flip the switch! __________________ To HD - And beyond.

2003-01-09, 08:35 PM	#4
bolmsted Veteran Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: York, Ontario Posts: 2,374	CityTV doesn't air sports either so 720p really isn't to their advantage considering that the vast majority of sets display at 1080i. ABC/ESPN is like the only stations that differ on this. BTW see similar thread with regards to topic here __________________ Toshiba 57HDX82\|Denon AVR4310CI\|PS3\|SA8300HD\|Harmony One\|Paradigm [Monitor 9\|CC290\|DSP3100\|ADP190\|Titans]

2003-01-09, 09:46 PM	#6
dialog_gvf Veteran Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Downtown Toronto, ON Posts: 2,130	Fortunately, those networks are the WB and UPN, for which we have never had an analogue channel on cable. MI-2 is a Paramount picture. And City shows Enterprise (UPN). Their first HD show will be Smallville (from the WB). And I believe I read that they'll be showing at least one Warner Bros. movie a month in HD. Gotta start somewhere, right? I believe both the WB and UPN broadcast HD in 1080i. __________________ To HD - And beyond.

2003-01-10, 09:58 AM	#10
dialog_gvf Veteran Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Downtown Toronto, ON Posts: 2,130	Good questions. First: EDTV. If the CRTC is using the proper definitions in the ATSC standard, that would NOT qualify. HDTV is the three 720p and three 1080i rates defined under the standard. FOX is using what is called under the ATSC standard SDTV. The term EDTV has come along to refer to 16:9 @ 480p, because people felt that SDTV was an innaccurate discription. The term EDTV isn't in the ATSC standard, I don't think. EDTV should be as good as anamorphic DVD. But, I think it is fair to look for a clarification. And nail City if they attempt to pass of EDTV as part of the DIFFERENT 14 hours that is required to be HD. Second: Re-matteing I do not think the CRTC is going to get into a position if judging whether one broadcast or another constitutes REAL widescreen. There is a lawsuit right now that claims MGM is re-matteing P&S as widescreen. And the 2nd and 3rd Back to the Future discs were subjected to that and Universal is re-issuing. The CRTC rules say you can't change the 16:9 aspect ratio, and can't downgrade the bit-rate of the content available to you. The rules aren't there to start making judgement on the quality or accurateness of the content. Merely to insure that the source isn't messed with because the broadcaster thinks "people want 4:3" or "we need reduce the bandwidth to pack more stations". You decide on the quality or accurateness of the content with your viewing choices. You'll note that the CRTC differentiates between widesreen content and HD content. HD is always widescreen. So, that would indicate they see the two concepts as being different, and implies they understand that you can have widescreen without HD (EDTV). __________________ To HD - And beyond.

2003-01-13, 11:31 PM	#14
dialog_gvf Veteran Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Downtown Toronto, ON Posts: 2,130	Probably best don't you think? I don't really want the CRTC to be a police force. But the concept of a transitional license is that your old frequency is going to be revoked at some point. I think it serves to keep the broadcasters in line. Breaking the rules won't allow them keep the old one alive when the CRTC pulls the analogue plug, and presumably the transitional one needs to be converted to a new regular license at some point too. __________________ To HD - And beyond.

2003-01-09, 07:03 PM	#2
otown47 Veteran Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Ottawa, Rogers Posts: 3,903	Does anyone know if the CRTC has defined what HD is ????

2003-01-09, 08:52 PM	#5
otown47 Veteran Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Ottawa, Rogers Posts: 3,903	Let me ask the question a different way. I expect that a lot of what we will see on City HD will be simultaneously broadcasted on a US HD network....as is the case nowdays with Global, CH, CTV, etc. In these cases we will not get to see the US version. If city airs a FOX EDTV broadcast, will this count as HD in Canada and will we be able to see the US version if it is broadcast simultaneously.

2003-01-09, 10:03 PM	#7
jvillain ______________ Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,460	I could have this wrong but ... . Wasn't there some thing in the CRTC's HDTV regs about any thing shot in widescreen had to be shown in wide screen? Wouldn't that limit the amount of SD they could slip you on the HD channel?

2003-01-10, 08:35 AM	#9
otown47 Veteran Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Ottawa, Rogers Posts: 3,903	Sorry but I'm confused here...all this bureaucracy.... Does a FOX ED broadcast count as HD and can it be simalcasted?? Some (if not most) of the ABC HD movies are 4:3 movies with the top and bottom cut off. Are these movies HD as defined by the CRTC ??? Thanks...

2003-01-10, 10:55 AM	#11
Cdn_Photo Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Mississauga Posts: 390	The IPG on Rogers has been updated to show MI-2 starting at 9:00 on Thursday. It's still listed as CDTV, but at least the movie is added in correctly. This is going to be an interesting week for HDTV. Superbowl and Citytv in HD.

2003-01-10, 04:02 PM	#12
otown47 Veteran Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Ottawa, Rogers Posts: 3,903	If you miss MI2 on City you can catch it on ABC later in the month. Should be interesting to compare the quality.

2003-01-14, 02:36 PM	#15
JohnnyG Veteran Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: North York, Ontario Posts: 10,407	Gary, my point was that you keep stating that CityTV HAS to offer this much of this and this much of that, but really they do not because like I said, most of the CRTC 'rules' are really just suggestions. In other words, don't be surprised if 99.5% of the programming on City's DTV channel is an upconverted simulcast of their analog channel.

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