Antennas Direct OTA Antennas & Gear

[stampeder]

Originally Posted by z0z0

I now see that this baby is the best piece of marketing rather than antenna technology that I have seen in a long time.

And so we see Terrestrial Digital (nee Antennas Direct) trying to make silk purses out of sows ears. Maybe there might be some electronic voodoo being used in that little circuit board, but if so, why are the reception results not so great?

Originally Posted by z0z0

I wonder how much the plastic case helps in the reception!

Not a bit. A positive feature might be that if it is weather-tight then it will reduce corrosion.

Originally Posted by z0z0

...the plastic case which makes it look so pretty costs $60 to $80

The plastic moulding probably doesn't cost them much to either manufacture or have made for them, so the difference in cost between the naked bowtie antenna + preamp and the Lacrosse becomes quite an insult to the consumer:

Lacrosse = $160-$180 US
DB2 Bowtie + PA-17 Preamp = $95 US

Thanks for the photographic evidence!

[rschneider]

Greetings all,

I saw this discussion and I thought I may chime in

Since I helped design the antenna I may be able to lend some insight into its method of construction and performance.

Some of these points I e-mailed to Zed whom we shipped the eval unit to:

The Lacrosse shares many of the same basic principals as the DB2 in that they both use fan dipoles as their driven elements. Since the DB2 is already a good antenna, the objective for the Lacrosse was to find additional efficiencies while maintaining an aesthetic form.

What makes the Lacrosse a little different is that there have been some refinements to the geometry of the array. A proprietary antenna simulation program developed by our consulting engineers was used to automate the design process and search through millions of design variations in an effort to find configurations that out perform existing designs. Often slight changes to the geometry of the elements can yield substantial improvements in performance.

While it is the same topology as the existing DB2, the fan elements have a slightly different flair, the separation on the transmission line is different, reflector design was changed slightly and the height above the reflector is different. As a result, the geometry changes provide improved VSWR and gain in the forward direction across the frequency band. The VSWR curve is smooth and well behaved across the entire UHF spectrum.

Another advantage to this design was it provided an excellent impedance match for the enclosed baluns across the UHF band. What this means is that with improved impedance matching, we lose less signal at the transformer.

The amp on the Lacrosse A is of a different design than the PA17. (Not that there is anything wrong with the PA 17), It was just more efficient to use a design with a better impedance match (It also has a slightly better noise spec on the UHF band than the PA 17).

It is very challenging to get a high performance antenna in an aesthetic form, and we hope we have found an effective balance of size and performance. The Lacrosse represented a substantial investment in engineering as well as tooling costs and is reflected in its price.

You are right to in that it is an expensive antenna. Not only to purchase but to produce as well. Its development and manufacturing costs are about 5-10x the cost of any of our other models and exceed our initial projections, there were a number of opportunities to simplify the design which I declined since I didn't want to compromise aesthetics or performance.

The molds for the Lacrosse are comprised of 4 large interlocking pieces, in order to get the pieces to fit together tightly, it required us to use a more expensive injection molding process which does not lend itself easily to the large sections which comprise the Lacrosse enclosure.

Due to the large surface area of the molds, the resins cure at different rates the farther they get from the injection points. In order to achieve consistency in its color required an additional stage to powder coat each antenna to achieve consistent coloring.
All this collectively adds to the costs.

Each Lacrosse is hand assembled and it’s most likely the most labor intensive antenna to manufacture on the market. Compared to our other models there are many times more man hours required to assemble Lacrosse. and since they ship assembled complete with mount we can only fit about 1/3 in an ocean container as compared to our other models.

I hope this gives you some indication that the Lacrosse more than a bowtie in a $10 piece of plastic. But we are aware of its price point and are searching for ways to take some of the cost out of the manufacturing process. I may have an announcement concerning this in the next 30 days.

Bottom line, the antenna does work as advertised and we feel it is one of the few aesthetic antennas that actually delivers reliable and consistent performance.

Thanks for allowing my response and I hope this info helps

Richard Schneider
President
Antennas Direct/Terrestrial Digital

[stampeder]

Welcome here Richard and thank you for your very informative response. You'll find eager OTA antenna geeks here!

[Mingy]

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio...v&noredirect=1

Yamonn set me up with a CM, but while perusing the tigerdirect site I spotted these. Pricing ain't bad. I don't know if they have them in the stores (I know of 3 stores in the GTA).

The HD8 comes up under accesories, for some reason.

[stampeder]

The CM4221 is a better antenna than a DB4 and at a similar price point.

As for the DB2, considering that it would most likely be used indoors, it is a favourite of some DHCers but for most people a Zenith Silver Sensor clone would offer comparable performance for much less $$$:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/show...9&postcount=99

The DB-8 is no match for the CM4228 or Winegard PR-8800.

[Yaamon]

The DB4 is supossed to be constructed well.

But under test they have about 2db less gain than the Channel master 4221 and cost more.

A is Channel Master 4228
B is Channel Master 4221

E is Winegard PR8800
F is Winegard PR4400

R is Antenna Direct DB4
S is Antenna Direct DB8

I is the Silver Sensor not bad at 7db gain.

[stampeder]

The DB-8 has poorer lower UHF performance and then it peaks up in the high UHF range, which is unfortunate because those are the channels likely to disappear in the years ahead (50s and 60s). The CM4228 is the best of the breed, and I'd still take a Winegard PR-8800 over a DB-8.

[Mingy]

I guess I figured that, since this is a Terrestrial Digital forum, people interested in Terrestrial Digital antennas might want to know where they can buy then at reasonable costs. For most folk, the problem is not deciding which antenna they want, its finding an antenna. Most of the people/places I went to suddenly didn't have any more in stock when I got there, or didn't have all what I wanted.

If we poo poo Terrestrial Digital antennas, why have a forum to discuss them, or anything other than ChannelMaster?

[stampeder]

Mingy,

Everyone is free to highlight their favourite brands to your hearts content, based on the DHC Forum rules. Nobody is stopping you.

Everyone is free to offer our experience and expertise for the benefit of others. Nobody is stopping us.

If you want to buy a Terrestrial Digital product, you are free to do so and I wish you well. I wish Terrestrial Digital well too, but they themselves acknowledge that their pricing regime is in need of work. As things now stand, their products do not offer value for the money. In your words, you are looking for a "reasonable" price. What if their entire price scale is "unreasonable" in the opinion of knowledgeable DHCers?

So, since its better for consumers to know that than to not know it, this thread in this forum will continue to offer opinions and advice even if it does not reflect well on the manufacturer.

[roger1818]

I just checked the Gain Curves for the Lacrosse Antenna and it seems to have close to an even gain over 170 degrees. For me, the two local antennas are about 85 degrees appart (and 30km away) which is difficult with one stationary antenna. Combined with my wife's resistance to have an antenna outside, this might be a good option for me.

[danbcman]

Has anybody had any success with this Antennas Direct LacrosseA
Compact High Gain Multi-Directional Antenna
with Amplification

[Cyclism]

danbcman:

Yes, hugh the site founder and administrator just had that antenna installed with great results, however your locations are different.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=57027

[stampeder]

Okay danbcman, you should join in on the HTPC Forum thread about ATI HDTV cards and other such PC software.

In the OTA Reception Forum you've posted in the thread for New West so we'll continue discussion about your actual location/situation there.

If you need to ask more about the Terrestrial Digital Lacrosse antenna just post those specific questions here.

[danbcman]

Okay well after looking at the info above and seeing whats around I think I should go for the DB8 is our most powerful multi-directional HD antenna I hope that will give me a good chance at getting more signal any suggestions?

[stampeder]

Before you make a purchase compare the price of the Channel Master 4228, the Winegard PR-8800, and the DB-8 since they are very close in performance, and tell us what you find out.