Popularizing OTA DTV In Canada - Page 4 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

stampeder · 2006-04-16, 10:55 PM

Our taxes pay for the streets we drive on, but governments cannot tell Chevy and Dodge owners that in order to drive on them they must be at the wheel of a Ford. Likewise with broadcasting: we can choose which means we wish to receive programming, but not matter what, local television is always available on OTA as a baseline.

Cable Free · 2006-04-16, 11:05 PM

That's the whole point. You can't choose (digital OTA) if you don't know.

To use your analogy, people don't even know that the Ford exists, let alone where you can get one. And its not in anyone's commercial interest to let average Cdn Joe to know they can get a Ford.

Wayne · 2006-04-16, 11:23 PM

OTA is great if you can get it, but for OTA to be feasible for most people they would want US + Canadian networks and there are very few Canadians who can get that - probably just those of us in the GTA/ Golden Horseshoe. The folks in Windsor get all of the US stations but are lacking for Canadian stations.

Cable Free · 2006-04-16, 11:55 PM

My point is that for those where digital OTA is an option (say golden horseshoe -approx 6 million people - 20% of the country's population) they just don't know about this option and / or if they know about digital OTA, its not easy to exercise your choice in this area.

Hard to reason why it makes sense from a population perspective for businesses in Western New York (where the population is much smaller than southern Ontario / golden horseshoe) to say have OTA tuners available for consumers but that somehow it doesn't make sense to sell them in Ontario - in the same retail chain - where arguably there is more OTA content available to Cdns (if you add both the Cdn and US channels together) than to those sitting in Lackawana (no offence to our American friends). I don't buy the custom and duty argument because Big Box is happy to sell you the most expensive plasma in the world if you want it regardless of custom or duties. Volume also isn't an argument, they could simply stock this stuff on their web distribution side and sell / import on demand. Bottom line is they don't and don't care to. This leaves the few independents who don't have marketing power to carry equipment on a niche basis for the few of us in the know. All I'm saying is it's a darn shame.

z0z0 · 2006-04-17, 08:33 AM

Most new HDTV TVs do have an ATSC tuner built in so the need for a set-top box is not really necessary.

The question is about market awareness. Educate people that this possibility exists.

Does anyone have any media contacts that we could get interested in the OTA option? Many people hae Rogers and so this would be a good story.

old sparks · 2006-04-17, 09:55 AM

Sony was selling the popular Grand Wega (KDFE) televisions with the ATSC tuner, but now only the non-ATSC version (KFE) seems to be available. For someone living in the GTA, Windsor or the Horseshoe, it would seem to me that an ATSC tuner would be a desirable feature.

I'm looking forward to the CBC OTA HD transmitter planned for Ottawa this summer, so I purposely bought the KDFE model. Too bad it won't be up in time for the playoffs. I guess I'll have to watch it on Starchoice...

Quote:

Originally Posted by z0z0

The question is about market awareness. Educate people that this possibility exists.

stampeder · 2006-04-17, 01:20 PM

We seem to be revisiting familiar topics that are seen in the following threads linked below. We'll keep this thread focused on the specific topic of popularizing OTA in Canada, where about %70 of the population now have access to OTA DTV in some quantity (Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver areas).

cheers,

stampeder

Pros and Cons of Going OTA:

http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/for...ad.php?t=32200

Why does analog OTA even exist?

http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/for...ad.php?t=26595

Understanding OTA DTV Broadcasting Technology in Canada:

http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/for...ad.php?t=25774

Industry Canada/CRTC/FCC's OTA Policy Decisions:

http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/for...ad.php?t=25867

CRTC & FCC OTA News Thread:

http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/for...ad.php?t=25163

blakew · 2006-04-18, 09:26 PM

You know what would really popularize DT? Sending polite letters to various big box stores HQ, maybe to the store manager's emails if you have it, simply saying that you're a long time customer of (store ____) and are dissapointed that they don't have Digital set-top boxes available. Think ahead of their possible objections (like ATI's reason for not selling the HDTV wonder in Canada), by pointing out the fact that there are local stations broadcasting digitally, that you spent the big bucks for a HDTV (sans ATSC decoder) and want to make use of the Digital OTA signals that are available.

Honestly Canada, we're never going to popularize OTA DT, if people don't see the STBs in the stores they shop at. If it's not an option when they're buying their HDTV, how are people going to know that "antennas for the 21st century" don't suck. It's a stigma that we need to shake loose, if we're to ever have OTA popular. It's a catch 22, broadcasters don't want to front the money for new equipment because there are few digital viewers (little advertising $). Potential digital viewers don't know of OTA HD because STBs are not available in stores. STBs are not available in stores because there aren't many stations. And that's the way it's going to stay if we don't start asking somebody.

Yaamon · 2006-04-18, 10:23 PM

I have one word why OTA is not being pushed in Canada.

$$$$ Money.

All the big box stores and retailers make a commission be selling you a HD subscription/service via cable or satellite.

The crtc gets lobbied by the cable and satellite companies.

Its a pitty that the crtc does not promote ota for the larger cities in Canada. Why not let the public know that HD is available as three sources, OTA, cable, and satellite.

Its a shame that Canada has no mandate for a deadline for analog ota.

blakew · 2006-04-18, 11:53 PM

Going back to where z0z0 said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by z0z0

I just saw a commercial by CTV which talks about the benefits of HDTV and how CTV has more HDTV programming in prime time than any other Canadian station.

And adding that with the current topic of getting the word out there about OTA HD... You know how CTV has station plugs with total strangers saying "Vancouver's watching CTV channel 9"? I wonder if they'll let me do an ad for them saying "Vancouver's watching CTV digital 32.1"

The ironic thing is that because their ERP is so low, saying "Vancouver's not watching CTV digital 32.1" might be more appropriate.

hdgeo · 2006-04-19, 02:50 AM

From reading this forum I understand that CBC, CTV & Global haven't even bothered to apply for HD OTA licences in many markets such as Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg & Halifax. Shouldn't they be required to provide OTA in all the major markets (there aren't that many)? This could be made a condition to renew their current licences. Then there are the border areas such as Vancouver where apparently most or all the high power frequencies are taken by U.S. broadcasters. How did that happen? The whole situation is appalling. Are the CRTC, Industry Canada and the federal cabinet completely disinterested in promoting OTA HD, thereby forcing consumers to subscribe to costly HD packages?

stampeder · 2006-04-19, 12:55 PM

hdgeo, I think you are correct that it boils down to political will. I do not blame the Industry Canada people, who were not given any sort of clear mandate or encouragement to foster a "can do" attitude in our country towards OTA DTV success.

The CBC has a plan in place for a cutover in most major cities, but progress is slow. The CRTC apparently allows CTV and Global to operate what seem like tiny or fictional DTV stations in order that those networks can simsub on HD channels.

stampeder · 2006-04-19, 11:27 PM

I've merged the old Future Shop Misleading Its Customers re. OTA HDTV thread into this one because they both cover the same topic in different ways and many of the posts in both threads seem to complement each other now.

blakew · 2006-04-23, 07:12 PM

I ran the Vancouver Sun Run today, and on my way, I came across someone working at CTV. So as I passed him, I said "Digital 32.1!" He knew what I was talking about, 'cause he smiled in acknowledgment. Maybe he'll tell some people at work, "hey some guy doing the sun run told me he gets us on digital, maybe there's a market to be had afterall". Wishful thinking, I know

z0z0 · 2006-04-23, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne

OTA is great if you can get it, but for OTA to be feasible for most people they would want US + Canadian networks and there are very few Canadians who can get that - probably just those of us in the GTA/ Golden Horseshoe. The folks in Windsor get all of the US stations but are lacking for Canadian stations.

Dont worry - you are not missing much by not getting Canadian stations - ha ha ha. If you get ABC, CBS + NBC the you get most of the good programming. How many stations do you folks get from Detroit and the other US cities?

2006-04-17, 01:20 PM	#52
stampeder OTA Forum Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North Delta, BC (96Av x 116St) Posts: 23,338	Back to the original topic We seem to be revisiting familiar topics that are seen in the following threads linked below. We'll keep this thread focused on the specific topic of popularizing OTA in Canada, where about %70 of the population now have access to OTA DTV in some quantity (Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver areas). cheers, stampeder Pros and Cons of Going OTA: http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/for...ad.php?t=32200 Why does analog OTA even exist? http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/for...ad.php?t=26595 Understanding OTA DTV Broadcasting Technology in Canada: http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/for...ad.php?t=25774 Industry Canada/CRTC/FCC's OTA Policy Decisions: http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/for...ad.php?t=25867 CRTC & FCC OTA News Thread: http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/for...ad.php?t=25163

2006-04-18, 09:26 PM	#53
blakew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Yonge & Sheppard, Toronto Posts: 387	to the masses You know what would really popularize DT? Sending polite letters to various big box stores HQ, maybe to the store manager's emails if you have it, simply saying that you're a long time customer of (store ____) and are dissapointed that they don't have Digital set-top boxes available. Think ahead of their possible objections (like ATI's reason for not selling the HDTV wonder in Canada), by pointing out the fact that there are local stations broadcasting digitally, that you spent the big bucks for a HDTV (sans ATSC decoder) and want to make use of the Digital OTA signals that are available. Honestly Canada, we're never going to popularize OTA DT, if people don't see the STBs in the stores they shop at. If it's not an option when they're buying their HDTV, how are people going to know that "antennas for the 21st century" don't suck. It's a stigma that we need to shake loose, if we're to ever have OTA popular. It's a catch 22, broadcasters don't want to front the money for new equipment because there are few digital viewers (little advertising $). Potential digital viewers don't know of OTA HD because STBs are not available in stores. STBs are not available in stores because there aren't many stations. And that's the way it's going to stay if we don't start asking somebody. __________________ Sony 32XBR1, Antennas Direct CS2, Xbox360 & BD. Gamertag: "DT Vancity" <-- get it, DTV?

2006-04-18, 10:23 PM	#54
Yaamon Veteran Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: 300 Steelcase Road W, #20 Markham,905470 9604 ext 230 Posts: 1,795	I have one word why OTA is not being pushed in Canada. $$$$ Money. All the big box stores and retailers make a commission be selling you a HD subscription/service via cable or satellite. The crtc gets lobbied by the cable and satellite companies. Its a pitty that the crtc does not promote ota for the larger cities in Canada. Why not let the public know that HD is available as three sources, OTA, cable, and satellite. Its a shame that Canada has no mandate for a deadline for analog ota. __________________ CM4228/9521/7775;F.RmJvc70FH96/8300HDPvr/Dish 612;B.Rm LC52LE810UN/8642HD;Study LG50PK550/Xbox360;

2006-04-23, 07:12 PM	#59
blakew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Yonge & Sheppard, Toronto Posts: 387	CTV Sun Runner I ran the Vancouver Sun Run today, and on my way, I came across someone working at CTV. So as I passed him, I said "Digital 32.1!" He knew what I was talking about, 'cause he smiled in acknowledgment. Maybe he'll tell some people at work, "hey some guy doing the sun run told me he gets us on digital, maybe there's a market to be had afterall". Wishful thinking, I know __________________ Sony 32XBR1, Antennas Direct CS2, Xbox360 & BD. Gamertag: "DT Vancity" <-- get it, DTV?

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2006-04-16, 10:55 PM	#46
stampeder OTA Forum Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North Delta, BC (96Av x 116St) Posts: 23,338	Our taxes pay for the streets we drive on, but governments cannot tell Chevy and Dodge owners that in order to drive on them they must be at the wheel of a Ford. Likewise with broadcasting: we can choose which means we wish to receive programming, but not matter what, local television is always available on OTA as a baseline.

2006-04-16, 11:05 PM	#47
Cable Free Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 63	That's the whole point. You can't choose (digital OTA) if you don't know. To use your analogy, people don't even know that the Ford exists, let alone where you can get one. And its not in anyone's commercial interest to let average Cdn Joe to know they can get a Ford.

2006-04-16, 11:23 PM	#48
Wayne Veteran Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Scarboro Posts: 5,568	OTA is great if you can get it, but for OTA to be feasible for most people they would want US + Canadian networks and there are very few Canadians who can get that - probably just those of us in the GTA/ Golden Horseshoe. The folks in Windsor get all of the US stations but are lacking for Canadian stations.

2006-04-16, 11:55 PM	#49
Cable Free Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 63	My point is that for those where digital OTA is an option (say golden horseshoe -approx 6 million people - 20% of the country's population) they just don't know about this option and / or if they know about digital OTA, its not easy to exercise your choice in this area. Hard to reason why it makes sense from a population perspective for businesses in Western New York (where the population is much smaller than southern Ontario / golden horseshoe) to say have OTA tuners available for consumers but that somehow it doesn't make sense to sell them in Ontario - in the same retail chain - where arguably there is more OTA content available to Cdns (if you add both the Cdn and US channels together) than to those sitting in Lackawana (no offence to our American friends). I don't buy the custom and duty argument because Big Box is happy to sell you the most expensive plasma in the world if you want it regardless of custom or duties. Volume also isn't an argument, they could simply stock this stuff on their web distribution side and sell / import on demand. Bottom line is they don't and don't care to. This leaves the few independents who don't have marketing power to carry equipment on a niche basis for the few of us in the know. All I'm saying is it's a darn shame.

2006-04-17, 08:33 AM	#50
z0z0 Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Miss = Dixie + Burnhamthorpe Posts: 160	Most new HDTV TVs do have an ATSC tuner built in so the need for a set-top box is not really necessary. The question is about market awareness. Educate people that this possibility exists. Does anyone have any media contacts that we could get interested in the OTA option? Many people hae Rogers and so this would be a good story.

2006-04-19, 02:50 AM	#56
hdgeo Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Vancouver Posts: 36	From reading this forum I understand that CBC, CTV & Global haven't even bothered to apply for HD OTA licences in many markets such as Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg & Halifax. Shouldn't they be required to provide OTA in all the major markets (there aren't that many)? This could be made a condition to renew their current licences. Then there are the border areas such as Vancouver where apparently most or all the high power frequencies are taken by U.S. broadcasters. How did that happen? The whole situation is appalling. Are the CRTC, Industry Canada and the federal cabinet completely disinterested in promoting OTA HD, thereby forcing consumers to subscribe to costly HD packages?

2006-04-19, 12:55 PM	#57
stampeder OTA Forum Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North Delta, BC (96Av x 116St) Posts: 23,338	hdgeo, I think you are correct that it boils down to political will. I do not blame the Industry Canada people, who were not given any sort of clear mandate or encouragement to foster a "can do" attitude in our country towards OTA DTV success. The CBC has a plan in place for a cutover in most major cities, but progress is slow. The CRTC apparently allows CTV and Global to operate what seem like tiny or fictional DTV stations in order that those networks can simsub on HD channels.

2006-04-19, 11:27 PM	#58
stampeder OTA Forum Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North Delta, BC (96Av x 116St) Posts: 23,338	I've merged the old Future Shop Misleading Its Customers re. OTA HDTV thread into this one because they both cover the same topic in different ways and many of the posts in both threads seem to complement each other now.