Archiving Widescreen Content from the SA8300HD

[gordonb]

As some of you may have noticed I'm on a somewhat quixotic campaign to attempt to get Rogers to activate the Firewire ports on their High Defenition (HD) Set Top Boxes (STBs) and PVRs.

Quite simply put all I want is the same "fair use" that I had with standard definition content and my VCR - the ability to copy content to off-line media so I can watch it when I want to.

I have had some success recently archiving content from my 8300HD and I thought I would share my experiences.

Big Fat Disclaimer - Yes, I know the methods I am using are not HD but I find the quality acceptable for wide-screen content.

My first attempt involved using the S-Video output. This resulted in a letter-boxed output that when burned to a DVD looked horrible. Partly I suspect because of the encoding to a Luminance (Y) and Chrominance (C) channel and also due to the decrease in vertical resolution due to the letterboxing and the subsequent requirement to "zoom" the content on playback.

I noticed on VideoGuys a couple of capture boxes that were capable of capting from Component to DV (D1). I reasoned that their would be less garbage in the YUV component output than in the S-Video and that I might be able to capture 480i widescreen as it is anamorphic and similar to what one finds on a standard DVD.

I picked up a ADS Tech Pyro A/V Link from Tiger Direct for $191 plus shipping as it was the lowest cost solution, available from a Canadian retailer and includes a full version of Adobe Premier Elements (a $130 value at FS).

After some tweaking I managed to capture a widescreen feature played back from my 8300HD via component. I had to configure Premiere for a 16x9 aspect ratio project and then tell it to convert the pixel aspect ratio of the captured file from 0.9 (4:3) to 1.2 (16:9). I then trimmed the file and burned it to DVD with no menus. Popped the DVD into my DVD player and voila! A excellent widescreen archived copy of the content was displayed.

Things I want to work on at this point are de-interlacing the content and how to include DD5.1 sound (Premier does not support 5.1 currently).

[57]

Just as an FYI, there are some DVD recorders that have component video inputs, however, they are limited to 480i. When using CV you can set the SA8300HD to output 480i widescreen (only), thereby getting an anamorphic image, if I recall correctly. There was a long thread on using DVD recorders a few months back.

I'm not sure you'll be able to capture DD5.1, until the firewire connection is activated. Good luck in your continued attempts.

[gordonb]

Originally Posted by 57

Just as an FYI, there are some DVD recorders that have component video inputs, however, they are limited to 480i. When using CV you can set the SA8300HD to output 480i widescreen (only), thereby getting an anamorphic image, if I recall correctly. There was a long thread on using DVD recorders a few months back.

Yes, but they are harder to find and $250 was a reasonable cost considering I really wanted the software too

Originally Posted by 57

I'm not sure you'll be able to capture DD5.1, until the firewire connection is activated. Good luck in your continued attempts.

All I should have to do is get a decent sound card like the Turtle Beach Catalina that has a TosLink input and connect the TosLink O/P from the 8300HD to it. I should then be able to mix the DD5.1 from the soundcard with the AVI file from the Capture. I'd just have to use another application to do this.

[belgians got it]

Originally Posted by gordonb

My first attempt involved using the S-Video output. This resulted in a letter-boxed output that when burned to a DVD looked horrible. Partly I suspect because of the encoding to a Luminance (Y) and Chrominance (C) channel and also due to the decrease in vertical resolution due to the letterboxing and the subsequent requirement to "zoom" the content on playback.

I noticed on VideoGuys a couple of capture boxes that were capable of capting from Component to DV (D1). I reasoned that their would be less garbage in the YUV component output than in the S-Video and that I might be able to capture 480i widescreen as it is anamorphic and similar to what one finds on a standard DVD.

hello I am thinking of going the s-video rather than component route as my analog/digital converter has only s-video.

Is it possible that the poor results you got with s-video might have been due to the output having black bars instead of being anamorphic? And if you had done this would the result have been better, perhaps near to the quality you got with the component outputs?

[belgians got it]

hey, nevermind. I have decided that I don't want cable afterall lol.

[Madwand]

Originally Posted by gordonb

I picked up a ADS Tech Pyro A/V Link from Tiger Direct for $191 plus shipping as it was the lowest cost solution, available from a Canadian retailer and includes a full version of Adobe Premier Elements (a $130 value at FS).

Thanks for the guide. I'd like to add for any interested readers that that ADS model seems to be disappearing -- it's no longer available at TigerDirect, and there's very limited availability elsewhere.

I'm not sure if we should grab whatever we can find, or hold off for a newer model. I guess probably the former.

[gordonb]

Originally Posted by Madwand

Thanks for the guide. I'd like to add for any interested readers that that ADS model seems to be disappearing -- it's no longer available at TigerDirect, and there's very limited availability elsewhere.

I'm not sure if we should grab whatever we can find, or hold off for a newer model. I guess probably the former.

I suspect that the Movie Studios are putting a lot of pressure on the manufacturers to eliminate such products. Witness the difficulty in finding a DVD recorder with component inputs as well. Mostly Digital still sells the API-555 on-line in Canada but I know nothing about these guys. I suspect Tiger Direct can still get these if you phone them up and ask for it by model number (API-555).

As a sidenote the capture from within Elements is flaky to say the least. Bow to the left three times, power cycle the box, and eventually the capture will work. However, using WinDV, a freeware tool, works flawlessly and I still edit in Elements though.

[belgians got it]

I had one of these ADS cards waiting for me at the compusmart downtown location but at the last second I backed out and bought a 2nd hand DVD recorder with component inputs instead.

The reason I did this was mainly because of time. I'd rather have the DVD recorder encode/burn for me than tie up my computer with the same tasks and eat up my hard drive space; it's true that I probably sacrificed some quality by doing it that way, but the DVD's look very acceptable to me and I've saved myself 6 hours + every night encoding (the world cup matches).

When the WC is over I'm selling my DVD recorder if anyone's interested.

[gordonb]

I sent an email to ADS sales support and they are still shipping the units to Canadian retailers.

[DigitalCanadian]

Originally Posted by gordonb

As some of you may have noticed I'm on a somewhat quixotic campaign to attempt to get Rogers to activate the Firewire ports on their High Defenition (HD) Set Top Boxes (STBs) and PVRs.

Big Fat Disclaimer - Yes, I know the methods I am using are not HD but I find the quality acceptable for wide-screen content.

I support your crusade gordonb, but we need HD archival procedure, which is so "not" available now. No external DVD/HDD recorders would do HD recording!

Have you had any luck finding a PC capture card that would capture HDMI/Component in HD? Then it'll be possible to archive these beautiful HD shows?

[gordonb]

Originally Posted by DigitalCanadian

I support your crusade gordonb, but we need HD archival procedure, which is so "not" available now. No external DVD/HDD recorders would do HD recording!

Have you had any luck finding a PC capture card that would capture HDMI/Component in HD? Then it'll be possible to archive these beautiful HD shows?

There are lots of cards capable of doing this but they start at around $3000 and most want to output SDI and other esoteric broadcast formats. Also the bandwidth requirements of an uncompressed (YUV etc) 1080i HD signal are huge (PCI-X capture and a REAL raid 0 array). It irkes me to have to capture a MPEG TS using analog then convert it back to digital with the inherent artifacts.

A much cheaper solution would be to ditch Rogers, pickup a Express Vu 6000 on ebay and install the 16x9time mods.

Please don' t flame me but given these options, my budget, my condo's refusal to allow me to install a dish and a 32" LCD screen - 480 widescreen looks pretty good to me.

[BobFillmore]

Another option is capturing HD content from your television via firewire. My Sony KDF-60XBR950 has i.Link (firewire) ports that can be connected to a D-VHS deck for playback and recording. This provides an all-digital solution (DVI from SA8300HD to TV, then i.Link to digital deck). Somebody has used this configuration to capture HD content on a Mac using VirtualDVHS software. Unfortunately, rumor has it that all the new Sony XBR TV's are missing i.Link support.

[57]

BobFillmore, I would have thought that the firewire out on the TV is only for signals from the internal (ATSC/QAM) tuner, not for "passthrough" from another source, like DVI/HDMI in. I could be wrong. Also, no TVs (that I know) will "passthrough" a DD5.1 signal, from another source.

[BobFillmore]

Originally Posted by 57

BobFillmore, I would have thought that the firewire out on the TV is only for signals from the internal (ATSC/QAM) tuner, not for "passthrough" from another source, like DVI/HDMI in. I could be wrong. Also, no TVs (that I know) will "passthrough" a DD5.1 signal, from another source.

There is no mention of restrictions in the manual, other than "Not all functions are supported for all i.Link devices". Anyway, I will soon know... I'm about to buy a firewire cable and try it.

[57]

Manuals rarely state what the TV cannot do, only what it can. Lots of people are surprised by the fact that TVs do not "passthrough" DD5.1.

We look forward to your feedback.