Rogers Digital - Sound on Analog range vs. Digital Range?

[tkubik]

HI All,

I just got a new Grand Wega II and made the leap to Digital Cable. We're not in an HDTV zone yet, but i thought i'd give it a try before switching to satelite. I've run into a few annoying things and am wondering if there is something wrong with my setup.


1) SOUND - big issue with sound. I have hooked up the digital out from the Explorer 3200 STB to my receiver. EVERYTHING IS GREAT on the digital channels. Soon as I get into the Analogue range - i get no sound. SO i hookup the RCA audio cables to my receiver and switch sources on the receiver to VCR2 - then i'm able to get sound on analogue channels. This really sucks b/c i have to constantly switch sources on my receiver.

2) POPULAR CHANNELS - i realized that the popular channels that i watch 90% of the time are still just analogue. TMN etc. are in the digital range which is great, but I still get a crummy picture on the lower range. I thought when i signed up that rogers would replicate the lower channels in the digital range.

I guess moving to satelite would give me full digital right?

I welcome everyones two cents on the above before I snap and buy expressvu[/code]

[57]

Originally Posted by tkubik

I have hooked up the digital out from the Explorer 3200 STB to my receiver. EVERYTHING IS GREAT on the digital channels. Soon as I get into the Analogue range - i get no sound. SO i hookup the RCA audio cables to my receiver and switch sources on the receiver to VCR2 - then i'm able to get sound on analogue channels. This really sucks b/c i have to constantly switch sources on my receiver.

Why don't you connect all the audio and video outputs from the STB to the same labelled input on the receiver - "CABLE" for example. There should be room for digital, analogue audio and S, or composite video. Why should you have to change to VCR2?

If you are switching to VCR2 because you have your STB cables going to the VCR, get a set of "piggyback" cables or "Y" connectors so that you can have your one STB audio out going to the VCR and to the receiver.

If you already have the analogue cables going to the receiver, you may have to manually switch between "analogue" and "digital" as some receivers do not "auto-detect" analogue and digital.

As for the analogue channels not looking so good, perhaps your signal strength is not that great or something else is wrong. I get a very good picture from the analogue channels, especially Global and CTV.

You could also consider splitting the signal before the STB and watching the analogue channels using the GW's internal tuner.

[tkubik]

57 - thanks for the post.

I have done the following (NOTE THE VCR ISN"T EVEN HOOKED UP RIGHT NOW)

-RCA audio Outputs from the STB into my Receiver on VCR2 analog input
-Digital COAX output from STB into my Receivers digital input (SAT) connection

I've kinda figured out the issue. As others have mentioned the 3200 STB doesn't seem to release the digital signal when going from the digital range down to the analog.

I.e.

1) Turn on STB, put receiver on SAT
2) Go to analog channel (i.e. 33) - RECEIVER auto downgrades and sound is heard
3) Go to digital channel (i.e. 203) - RECEIVER detects DDS and looks into digital mode
4) Go back down to Analog channel, RECEIVER stays at analog. Appears that the STB doesn't send the right release signal to the receiver.

This is super annoying. I have to reset the receiver by moving to another source and back to SAT to lock into the analogue signal on the STB.

Not sure what to do. Is this a problem with the STB or the receiver?

[57]

I have heard of this problem with motorola boxes, however, not with Rogers SA STBs. Sounds like something wrong with your receiver if it is supposed to auto detect.

If it doesn't auto detect then you'll need to figure out how to do it manually. (Usually this is done by repeatedly pressing the same input button you are on, but you'll have to check your manual on how to manually toggle between digital and analogue sound).

-RCA audio Outputs from the STB into my Receiver on VCR2 analog input
-Digital COAX output from STB into my Receivers digital input (SAT) connection

I still don't understand why you don't have the analogue and digital audio cables going to the same input on the receiver (SAT for example). I believe that is the cause of your problem. Your analogue audio is going to the VCR2 input, that's why you have to switch to "VCR2" to hear it!!! Disconnect those analogue cables from your VCR2 input and put them in the SAT input.

[Alan Bealby]

I am puzzled about your hook up. It sounds to me that you have the STB's video output connected directly to the TV and the audio output of the STB connected to the A/V receiver using two different A/V inputs on the receiver. Is this correct that you are not using the A/V receiver to switch your video from the STB.

I have a Motrola STB that always has the digital audio output active even when tuned to an analog channel. I do have the STB's video and audio outputs connected to one input on the A/V receiver. My receiver has a remote control code that toggles the A/V receiver between analog and digital audio input. This seems to me a simpler solution than you are trying if your receiver has a remote code to toggle between digital and analog input. The fact that there was such a code was not obvious. I only found it after several unsuccessful calls for help from my salesman and after reading the manuals several times. It was anything but obvious.

However, my experimentation with my A/V receiver and STB says that my A/V receiver should behave as you expect if I used what I think is your setup. When my A/V receiver is switched to a different input, it looks for a digital audio signal and uses it if a digital audio signal is detected for that input, otherwise it selects the analog audio input. I can override that by using the remote code to toggle between audio input modes. In your case I would expect the reciver to change to analog audio input when you change your receiver to VCR2 input as long as there was no digital audio connected to a digital audio input port that was associated with the VCR2 input.

However I agree with 57 that you should be using one A/V input for all the signals from the STB as long as your receiver has a remote control toggle to switch between analog and digital audio input.

[tkubik]

Hey Guys,

I have figured out how to toggle the SAT input between Analog and Digital. So there is no need for the RCA audio outputs. Still a pain b/c I have to toggle and it isn't autodetected, but i've got my one universal remote all programmed to handle it. Thanks for the pointers.

[57]

All I can say is that it's really weird that you can toggle between analogue and digital on the SAT input when you say you don't have an analogue input to your SAT...

Once you connect everything else up (like a VCR or something else), you may run into problems... While you only have two "live" inputs, your receiver may somehow be detecting the "other input", but once you have more than two inputs, I think you're going to have to connect them all properly.

[Joxer]

My Panasonic HE-200 has problems with this too. The problem seems to be that when the digital channel is lost (ie. my L/R digital indicator goes out) it doesn't look for analog even when set to auto. If I flip through input modes analog/digital/auto then I get sound in the analog and auto modes. Also, if I switch sources (eg. CD) and then flip back, the auto sense will lock on the analog. Finally, when the opposite happens and I switch back to a digital station again, there is no problem with the reciever detecting the digital signal and switching over to use that.

Of course, the real solution would be to fully replicate all the lower stations in digital overlay. That plus intelligent stretch modes in the STB (auto stretch of non-HD and back for HD) would make life much nicer. Scaling of HD for the guide would be nice, but even there the box is not as nice a video picture as BEV, so that would need improvement too.

[tkubik]

Exactly the same behaviour i have. My receiver is a RCA. I wonder if other receivers have this issue?

You are absolutely correct, Rogers should replicate the lower 80 channels in the digital spectrum. I can't believe how much crap is in the higher channels. Surely they could make room for all these channels that people watch 80% of the time. Had I known when I ordered Rogers Digital that the lower 80 wouldn't be digital, i probably would have gotten ExpressVu right off the bat. I'm pretty disappointed. I'm only hanging on for Rogers HDTV which i hear is the best.

[57]

Had you asked, anyone would have told you that Rogers' lower channels are still analogue. This is the case for most cable suppliers because the "change" to full digital is not due for a few years (2006-7).

Rogers would like nothing better than to go full digital, but this would alienate the many existing customers who don't yet have a digital STB.

Shifting, the most watched channels into the digital realm, would cause the same uproar - also the CRTC wouldn't allow it.

Replicating all those channels in digital format, would take up precious bandwidth that is used for something else (like HDTV).

Rogers is "experimenting" with "doubling" the analogue channels "overlaying" the digital channel over the analogue one. In Toronto, channel 59 is one where this is currently being done. Rogers may do more of this in the future, provided Rogers has the bandwidth. See --> This Link

Regarding your receiver issues, go to the HT FAQ section and read the post "if only I'd have known" (the receiver section at the bottom...) Here's --> The link.

[Joxer]

There's a ton of space being wasted from 50 or so on up in the analog range. Reclaiming even a small portion of this would more than make room to replicate channels in overlay form, since 10 digitals (non-HD) fit in 1 analog. Get rid of those cruddy scrambled analog pay channels for one. It would be nice to get less compression on the channels we do get in digital too, especially for sports.

[57]

Originally Posted by jethrogoss

Get rid of those cruddy scrambled analog pay channels for one.

Rogers Toronto has already done this. Brampton (and obviously Etobicoke) still have them, but don't expect them to be there for long.

As I said, Rogers would like nothing better than to migrate to digital, but they have to do it in stages, so that they don't P.O. too many people at once. We discussed this in a thread a while ago and some of us thought they may work their way "down" moving the upper analogues to digital, so that people who want "specialty channels" will need a digital box. We thought that Basic Cable would be on analogue until the complete transition in 2006-7 (or later in Canada?).

As you say though, once they free up some bandwidth by migrating several of the analogues to digital, then they could "duplicate" the remaining analogues, without difficulty, due to the 10 digital for 1 analogue ratio.

[tkubik]

Originally Posted by 57

Had you asked, anyone would have told you that Rogers' lower channels are still analogue. This is the case for most cable suppliers because the "change" to full digital is not due for a few years (2006-7).

Rogers would like nothing better than to go full digital, but this would alienate the many existing customers who don't yet have a digital STB.

Shifting, the most watched channels into the digital realm, would cause the same uproar - also the CRTC wouldn't allow it.

Replicating all those channels in digital format, would take up precious bandwidth that is used for something else (like HDTV).

Rogers is "experimenting" with "doubling" the analogue channels "overlaying" the digital channel over the analogue one. In Toronto, channel 59 is one where this is currently being done. Rogers may do more of this in the future, provided Rogers has the bandwidth. See --> This Link

Regarding your receiver issues, go to the HT FAQ section and read the post "if only I'd have known" (the receiver section at the bottom...) Here's --> The link.

57 - I still don't understand why they can't spare the bandwidth to get the common 50 channels up there. From 100-199 is taken up by 90% garbage channels. Lots of useless stuff in the upper ranges. I think they could have hit a home run had they taken 1-50 and replicated in the 100's. PQ on my new Grand Wega of the TMN channels is fantastic. I was really impressed with how the good digital channels were coming in - and especially the sound. Going to the analogues was a big disappointment, but that is where I do 80% of my viewing. I understand they have to move slowly, but surely making the stuff the people watch 80% of the time and putting it into the digital spectrum should take priority over crappy specialty channels and billions of PPV channels. I'll make due for now...

[57]

Originally Posted by tkubik

I understand they have to move slowly, but surely making the stuff the people watch 80% of the time and putting it into the digital spectrum should take priority over crappy specialty channels and billions of PPV channels. I'll make do for now...

PPV makes them money.
Specialty channels makes them money.
Duplicating channels costs them money.

[bolmsted]

Originally Posted by 57

Duplicating channels costs them money.

some might argue that it may make money for them because it would attract people that went to satellite for better picture quality of all the channels, not just the pay/ppv channels or speciality channels.

That channel 59 that you say is digital is in fact not digital in all parts of the GTA. I would imagine that they won't even attempt to start migrating analog channels into digitial channels until all of the cable systems have been upgraded and channel numbers/mapping standardized. In some areas StarTV is on digital whereas others it is part of the analog chanels for example, TSN/MM is on one channel downtown and another channel in the burbs, etc.