CAT 5 Telephone? - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

birdman325 · 2006-01-31, 02:37 PM

First off, I apologize in advance for the "non-technical" nature of this question.
I recently bought a new house which was advertised as having Cat-5. When I think of Cat-5 I differentiate it from a regular telephone jack on the basis that a regular telephone jack is a "small plug" whereas Cat-5, which will allow for a home network, uses the "fatter telephone type plug" found on the back of computer network cards, etc.
I was expecting to see in each room, 2 plugs, one smaller plug for the phones and one larger plug for computers, (the Cat-5 plug).
Of course, each room only has one phone type plug and after "discussing" the issue with the seller, he explained that he used Cat-5, but for the phone wiring.
I don't really understand what this means, but after doing some reading on this site and others, does it mean that there is a way of using the phone plug somehow as a wired network? I am currently using a wireless network in my house, but I have some dead spots, which, if what he says is true (but it doesn't make sense to me) I could solve by using wired connections through the phone plug.

Anyways, sorry for the confusion, just trying to get this clear in my own head.

que3jxp · 2006-01-31, 03:47 PM

The two jack types you are referring to are:

RJ-11 = Telephone and telephone only.
RJ-45 = Typically PC network but not limited to this as it can also be used for an RJ-11 cable.

The issue that you will be faced with is that you will only be able to use the cable run (If it is indeed CAT-5) for one or the other and not both at one time. So if you don't need a phone in that room, feel free to convert the wall plate to RJ-45 and rewire the other end to connect to your network switch/router.

birdman325 · 2006-01-31, 03:55 PM

Thanx. I assume you don't mean you can't use the "system" at the same time for both, only that you can't use the jack for both. I could solve that issue by just putting a cordless (no jack) phone in the den, but isn't the bigger issue that right now, the "plug" only appears to accept the smaller RJ-11 plug and not the lsrger RJ-45. Do I have to "disconnect" the receptacle RJ-11 plug and re-connect an RJ-45 to the wires?

que3jxp · 2006-01-31, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birdman325

Thanx. I assume you don't mean you can't use the "system" at the same time for both, only that you can't use the jack for both. <<<snip>>> Do I have to "disconnect" the receptacle RJ-11 plug and re-connect an RJ-45 to the wires?

That is actually a double negative in the first statement. Because you can only use one jack/device on it DOES mean that it can only be used by the PC (system) or a telephone.

And yes, you will need to replace the whole wall plate and the jack with an RJ-45 plate/jack.

ego1138 · 2006-01-31, 04:39 PM

Also you'll need to know where the wires all run to? Does each jack run back to a single location or are they just daisy chained throughout the house?

If it all runs back to a single location . . . . that would be ideal. Then you could just put a new jack and wallplate on (Leviton makes some real nice modular plates and jacks that are pretty cheap) and put your router/switch down in the central location, and just patch it in. If it's all daisy chained, then it won't really be a very feasible thing for you to do.

When he said he put Cat5 in . . . really, all he's telling you is the TYPE of cabling he used. The Cat5 cable can handle a lot more than the old Cat3 stuff (that most people would have for Telephone) could. But, the most important thing now that you know it's Cat5 . . . is HOW it's wired up.

heybirder · 2006-01-31, 09:00 PM

My house is the same. All wiring is done with Cat 5. At the time, I chose how many outlets and where I wanted them placed in each room. The difference is how they are terminated in the basement panel (IBM HomeDirector panel). There is a panel for phone and a section for data - or what I did it route all the data ones into a router/switch.

A phone jack will plug into a rj-45 socket no problem. The phone lines only use 2 wires so you can have up to 4 lines brought into your home, activated at your outside junction box. You just need to know which two pairs are for each line and that is listed in the manual or you can just look at the panel.

Cupin · 2006-02-01, 02:35 PM

to follow-up on the prior post, I have CAT5 terminated into RJ11 as well but was able to turn each port into a dual RJ11/RJ45 port (two outlets). A friend, who's a lot more knowledgeable about this then I, took each outlet and created a two wire RJ11 port and a 4 wire RJ45 port (CAT5 has 6 wires). At the panel end, he left the phone outlets as before but took the data wires into my router with a cross-over cable and barrel adapters. Or at least that's what I remember.

So now all my phone plates have two outlets, one for phone and one for data. Works like a charm.

ego1138 · 2006-02-01, 02:41 PM

Correction, CAT5 has 8 wires, not 6.

If all you're doing is going to use it for is telephone service, then by all means, split the wires up and use it to make 4 phone jacks, but, if you're planning on using it for networking, it's REALLY not recommended that you split up the wires and make more than one jack out of the wire.

It sounds like it works in the case above, but, I don't know any network cable installer who would recommend that at all.

pvj · 2006-02-01, 04:02 PM

Not recommended but it is true that CAT5 only uses up 2 pairs.
There are actual splitters available that will take a CAT5 cable run and break it out to 2 CAT5 connections.
Again,it would NOT be recommended to split out a pair for voice though.

que3jxp · 2006-02-01, 04:08 PM

Actually, if you want to run full duplex 100 mbps, you need 4 wires and if you plan on coaxing gigabit ethernet onto the cable run you will need all 8.

2 wires would only get you half duplex 100 mbps and possibly only 10 mbps.

Folks, all those wires aren't there just for $its and giggles.

que3jxp · 2006-02-01, 04:12 PM

And also. Just look at the pin out of a crossover patch cable and you will quickly see that 4 wires IS the minimum.

MediaRoomManiac · 2006-02-02, 04:15 PM

Not to mention the fact that you may get crosstalk/interference between the voice and data lines all running beside one another, even though they may be twisted pair to reduce this effect.

You may not notice much on the voice end, but data-wise you may corrupted data, dropped connections, etc. worst case scenario.

classicsat · 2006-02-05, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by que3jxp

Actually, if you want to run full duplex 100 mbps, you need 4 wires and if you plan on coaxing gigabit ethernet onto the cable run you will need all 8.

2 wires would only get you half duplex 100 mbps and possibly only 10 mbps.

Folks, all those wires aren't there just for $its and giggles.

Most 10/100 gear out there is only two pair.
I have never heard of single pair half-duplex ethernet.

que3jxp · 2006-02-05, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicsat

Most 10/100 gear out there is only two pair.
I have never heard of single pair half-duplex ethernet.

Doable (Theoretically, never heard of it in practice specifically) if it is non-switched contention based Ethernet. Even if it was on twisted pair it would not be much different than using RG-58.

And, besides, the liklihood is that, if ever, it was only done waaayyy back in the early days.

e268 · 2006-02-15, 10:12 PM

I would like some clarification or confirmation, please.

Since two pairs of wires or 4 wires are required for 10/100 mbps lan use, can I use the normal telephone cable wiring and terminate them on RJ45 sockets? RJ45 sockets has 8 terminals, so do I just hook up the four wires to the socket according to the colour codes?

I will not use this wiring for telphone use, just want to set up a lan connection between these two rooms. ( I am on wireless right now, but 100 mbps is very attractive)

TIA.

2006-01-31, 02:37 PM	#1
birdman325 Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 81	CAT 5 Telephone? First off, I apologize in advance for the "non-technical" nature of this question. I recently bought a new house which was advertised as having Cat-5. When I think of Cat-5 I differentiate it from a regular telephone jack on the basis that a regular telephone jack is a "small plug" whereas Cat-5, which will allow for a home network, uses the "fatter telephone type plug" found on the back of computer network cards, etc. I was expecting to see in each room, 2 plugs, one smaller plug for the phones and one larger plug for computers, (the Cat-5 plug). Of course, each room only has one phone type plug and after "discussing" the issue with the seller, he explained that he used Cat-5, but for the phone wiring. I don't really understand what this means, but after doing some reading on this site and others, does it mean that there is a way of using the phone plug somehow as a wired network? I am currently using a wireless network in my house, but I have some dead spots, which, if what he says is true (but it doesn't make sense to me) I could solve by using wired connections through the phone plug. Anyways, sorry for the confusion, just trying to get this clear in my own head.

2006-01-31, 03:47 PM	#2
que3jxp Veteran Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Fredericton, NB Posts: 3,174	The two jack types you are referring to are: RJ-11 = Telephone and telephone only. RJ-45 = Typically PC network but not limited to this as it can also be used for an RJ-11 cable. The issue that you will be faced with is that you will only be able to use the cable run (If it is indeed CAT-5) for one or the other and not both at one time. So if you don't need a phone in that room, feel free to convert the wall plate to RJ-45 and rewire the other end to connect to your network switch/router.

2006-02-02, 04:15 PM	#12
MediaRoomManiac Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Ajax, ON Posts: 299	Not to mention the fact that you may get crosstalk/interference between the voice and data lines all running beside one another, even though they may be twisted pair to reduce this effect. You may not notice much on the voice end, but data-wise you may corrupted data, dropped connections, etc. worst case scenario. __________________ Sony KDL46HX800, BDPS470\|Pio 1020\|PS3 80G\|Athena AS-F1s, C1\|Energy VMinis, V10\|Moto VIP1232\|HOne\|APC UPS

2006-02-15, 10:12 PM	#15
e268 Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Toronto, Rogers 8300HD,Sony KDE42XBR950, Posts: 1,022	I would like some clarification or confirmation, please. Since two pairs of wires or 4 wires are required for 10/100 mbps lan use, can I use the normal telephone cable wiring and terminate them on RJ45 sockets? RJ45 sockets has 8 terminals, so do I just hook up the four wires to the socket according to the colour codes? I will not use this wiring for telphone use, just want to set up a lan connection between these two rooms. ( I am on wireless right now, but 100 mbps is very attractive) TIA. __________________ Yammy RXV2400 & CDC815, Celestion DL8 fr Mission 73Ci ctr Sansui rear Velodyne CHT8, Vaio TT180, i7-920@3.8Ghz

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2006-01-31, 03:55 PM	#3
birdman325 Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 81	Thanx. I assume you don't mean you can't use the "system" at the same time for both, only that you can't use the jack for both. I could solve that issue by just putting a cordless (no jack) phone in the den, but isn't the bigger issue that right now, the "plug" only appears to accept the smaller RJ-11 plug and not the lsrger RJ-45. Do I have to "disconnect" the receptacle RJ-11 plug and re-connect an RJ-45 to the wires?

2006-01-31, 04:39 PM	#5
ego1138 Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Brampton, ON Posts: 139	Also you'll need to know where the wires all run to? Does each jack run back to a single location or are they just daisy chained throughout the house? If it all runs back to a single location . . . . that would be ideal. Then you could just put a new jack and wallplate on (Leviton makes some real nice modular plates and jacks that are pretty cheap) and put your router/switch down in the central location, and just patch it in. If it's all daisy chained, then it won't really be a very feasible thing for you to do. When he said he put Cat5 in . . . really, all he's telling you is the TYPE of cabling he used. The Cat5 cable can handle a lot more than the old Cat3 stuff (that most people would have for Telephone) could. But, the most important thing now that you know it's Cat5 . . . is HOW it's wired up.

2006-01-31, 09:00 PM	#6
heybirder Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ottawa Posts: 346	My house is the same. All wiring is done with Cat 5. At the time, I chose how many outlets and where I wanted them placed in each room. The difference is how they are terminated in the basement panel (IBM HomeDirector panel). There is a panel for phone and a section for data - or what I did it route all the data ones into a router/switch. A phone jack will plug into a rj-45 socket no problem. The phone lines only use 2 wires so you can have up to 4 lines brought into your home, activated at your outside junction box. You just need to know which two pairs are for each line and that is listed in the manual or you can just look at the panel.

2006-02-01, 02:35 PM	#7
Cupin Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Calgary Posts: 41	to follow-up on the prior post, I have CAT5 terminated into RJ11 as well but was able to turn each port into a dual RJ11/RJ45 port (two outlets). A friend, who's a lot more knowledgeable about this then I, took each outlet and created a two wire RJ11 port and a 4 wire RJ45 port (CAT5 has 6 wires). At the panel end, he left the phone outlets as before but took the data wires into my router with a cross-over cable and barrel adapters. Or at least that's what I remember. So now all my phone plates have two outlets, one for phone and one for data. Works like a charm.

2006-02-01, 02:41 PM	#8
ego1138 Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Brampton, ON Posts: 139	Correction, CAT5 has 8 wires, not 6. If all you're doing is going to use it for is telephone service, then by all means, split the wires up and use it to make 4 phone jacks, but, if you're planning on using it for networking, it's REALLY not recommended that you split up the wires and make more than one jack out of the wire. It sounds like it works in the case above, but, I don't know any network cable installer who would recommend that at all.

2006-02-01, 04:02 PM	#9
pvj Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 61	Not recommended but it is true that CAT5 only uses up 2 pairs. There are actual splitters available that will take a CAT5 cable run and break it out to 2 CAT5 connections. Again,it would NOT be recommended to split out a pair for voice though.

2006-02-01, 04:08 PM	#10
que3jxp Veteran Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Fredericton, NB Posts: 3,174	Actually, if you want to run full duplex 100 mbps, you need 4 wires and if you plan on coaxing gigabit ethernet onto the cable run you will need all 8. 2 wires would only get you half duplex 100 mbps and possibly only 10 mbps. Folks, all those wires aren't there just for $its and giggles.

2006-02-01, 04:12 PM	#11
que3jxp Veteran Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Fredericton, NB Posts: 3,174	And also. Just look at the pin out of a crossover patch cable and you will quickly see that 4 wires IS the minimum.