ON - Vaughan/Richmond Hill//Markham/North of 407 - OTA - Page 52 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

quickcurrent · 2009-04-15, 12:26 PM

Googling that phrase brings up all sorts of things. I suppose I could try just using one of the old splitters I have laying around from my cable days (I think they may go to 900 MHz only) and if they pass the voltage I should be alright then. If not, I'll have to get a new one probably for frequencies up to 3GHz. Would it matter if it's one port pass or two port pass if I am only using one inserter?

Someone has told me that diplexers work really well to combine the sat and OTA signals outside and then separate them inside to avoid running new cables, but with all the connections that would entail in combination with the splitter, it seems to me that I may be better off running new cables. Any thoughts?

tenstu · 2009-04-15, 12:29 PM

I have run my cables to the basement from my antennas and then combined and split them indoors. That way, if anything needs repair, it can be done inside. Advantageous - especially in winter.

tczernec · 2009-04-15, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Googling that phrase brings up all sorts of things. I suppose I could try just using one of the old splitters I have laying around from my cable days (I think they may go to 900 MHz only) and if they pass the voltage I should be alright then. If not, I'll have to get a new one probably for frequencies up to 3GHz. Would it matter if it's one port pass or two port pass if I am only using one inserter?

I don't know how standard splitters work. If they don't pass power by default, then you have nothing to lose. But if they pass power to all ports by default, you could damage your second tv because the power from the injector will travel up to the antenna but also back down to the 2nd TV where the input is not designed to handle any DC offset. Anyone care to comment on what a cheapie splitter does by default? I'm sure it's in the forums though I don't have the luxury of searching it out at the moment..

Quote:

Someone has told me that diplexers work really well to combine the sat and OTA signals outside and then separate them inside to avoid running new cables, but with all the connections that would entail in combination with the splitter, it seems to me that I may be better off running new cables. Any thoughts?

With any combining/splitting devices, you'll always be introducing some additional noise and signal degradation. If you have a lot of margin, it shouldn't be an issue, but if you have weak or hard-to-receive signals, you don't want to add anything that might hurt you further. I assume you plan on keeping your sat in addition to the OTA then? I'd suggest trying your OTA on a dedicated cable with a single TV (no splitters) first to see how robust it is before experimenting with combining/splitting/etc.

quickcurrent · 2009-04-15, 09:26 PM

tczernec, I have tested the antenna with a single TV as per one of my posts above and got five channels in HD with the antenna held five feet from the ground. Now I've installed the antenna about 3 feet below the roof overhang on the house wall which is two storeys high. I have no doubt that hooking up just one TV now will work beautifully, I might even get Buffalo, which would be a plus. But I'd really like to be able to feed both TVs. And, yes, I'll be keeping satellite as well for channels we don't get over the air.

Sounds like I better find a place that sells splitters with only one port passing the DC then. Thanks for the explanation. I just picked up a 1GHz surge protected IDEAL digital cable splitter at Home Depot, but it doesn't sound like that is going to work then, as it says nothing about passing DC either over one port or two ports! I don't want to ruin the TVs (one is a 50 inch the other a 61 inch). Any idea where I can get one that passes DC over one port only, locally?

tenstu, I did that with cable years ago before finishing my basement, but I can't do that anymore the basement is all finished.

tenstu · 2009-04-15, 09:31 PM

Gotcha on the finished basement.

In my opinion then, you should go back to home depot and get a large grey electrical box, the kind with a sealed, screw on cover, then drill holes in it just large enough for your coax to go through, do the splitting inside, seal up the cover and then silicon closed the holes around the coax. Check a day or two later and re-apply the silicon again around the holes, once the first layer has 'dried'. This should provide you enough protection for the splitter and connection from the elements.

tczernec · 2009-04-15, 09:48 PM

If you're looking to keep satellite as well as OTA on the same cable, I guess you'd be looking for a diplexer with a 1-port DC pass (to combine the OTA and satellite, but allowing the OTA power to feed up to the antenna preamp) followed by a 2-way splitter (again with 1-port DC pass for the antenna preamp)? Does the satellite require a power injector too? If so, I highly doubt you can feed power for both devices up the same cable, especially if they require different voltages. Even at the same voltage, the power injector may not be able to source enough current for both the antenna preamp and the satellite LNB. You might be best calling a specialty shop to see what they have and/or can recommend. You can try the sponsors here (saveandreplay.com) or ask one of the resident installers on the forum (eg. Yaamon). I just don't want to feed you any incorrect information on this since I have limited knowledge in this area!

quickcurrent · 2009-04-16, 01:11 PM

I'm going to have to find a one port current pass first, then try the splitter installed right at the antenna and run a couple of loose cables through a window, one for each TV. Antennas Direct is sending me a 50 foot RG6 QS for the longer run at no charge (supposedly they supply that in packages they sell directly to the consumer but not in the packages that they sell through dealers!)

Then, once I've tested it that way, if it works well on both TVs, I'll do the permanent installation.

A box is a good idea to seal the connections.

The other option I am looking into is using a good one port pass splitter that is weather resistant and connecting that directly to the antenna, and then attach the cables to the splitter. I could silicone all connections to seal out all moisture. It would be great if I could find a splitter as described above but also with a female IN connector to avoid having to use a short wire length between the antenna (male connector) and the splitter (typically also male connectors

), kind of like satellite twin and quad LNBs. But, maybe I'm dreaming!

I'm still in the hunt for the right splitter. I'm thinking this one which passes DC current from either port but has built-in diode protection against current pass through and covers all frequencies.
http://www.circuits2u.com/pages/JVI25HFS22DN.htm
If only I could find one in the GTA so I didn't have to order online!

x4mer · 2009-04-17, 06:33 PM

Home Depot has them, I've seen them there.

quickcurrent · 2009-04-17, 09:27 PM

Which Home Depot? I was at the one in Vaughan but all they had was the one I bought (with spike protection) and an el cheapo that was just basic. I'll try the Home Depot in Richmond Hill tomorrow.

aooa · 2009-04-18, 09:41 AM

I'm trying to decide on which antenna is better to get US and CAN stations.

I understand that 4228 has longer range (considering Stouffville is further from CN tower/Bufallo) and 4221 has shorter range BUT has a much wider angle to pickup stations that are not aligned in a straight line...

I tried searching for Stouffville in the search and found people east of me (> 15km? in Markham/Uxbridge) that's having good success with 4221... I guess what I'm not sure about is if I get a 4228, will I get more channels (is it worth spending the extra $$ for a 4228) or do will it be the same or a little bit worse than a 4221 since it's angle is not as wide as 4221?

From the corner street of Yonge and Stouffville, I can actually see the CN tower straing south on a clear day... our house is 1 street NW of that corner.

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

--

Edit: I just saw the latest PDF of the antenna chart - will a 4221 pre amp be better? Also considering any CM antenna I get will be the HD version not the original version... thanks.

stampeder · 2009-04-18, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aoaa

I tried searching for Stouffville in the search and found people east of me

A search tip: use the Search This Thread tool to the upper right beside Thread Tools and put in the search term "Stouffville" and you'll zero-in on plenty of posts from right in the same town instead of 15km away.

Yaamon has had very good results with CM4221 installs in Stouffville. With one of those up high on the roof with a preamp to keep the signal from it strong you'll have good luck in Stouffville.

aooa · 2009-04-18, 07:07 PM

That's what I did.. the problem is Stouffville is a street that stretch across multiple towns - Richmond Hill where I am to Markham that's 15km east of me... and both towns are part of this thread..

THanks for your reply - I'm leaning towards doing a cm4221 preamped..

stampeder · 2009-04-19, 11:50 AM

Oh I get it. In that case you need to try other search terms for your area. No harm in trying it 4 or 5 times with different words. You'll do fine with a CM4221 and preamp in Richmond Hill.

tczernec · 2009-04-19, 02:40 PM

Actually Stouffville Road doesn't go through Markham at all; it starts in Richmond Hill at Yonge Street and continues until it hits York/Durham Line in east Stouffville. Markham town limits are about 1 to 1/2 km south of Stouffville Rd

Of course, many things don`t make sense around here, like the fact that most of Markham Road is actually in Toronto

The separation between CN Tower and Buffalo is only 13 to 18 degrees (depending on Buffalo transmitter chosen) from Yonge/Stouffville Rd, so I don't really think you need a wide beamwidth. But, the new CM4228HD, unless modified/hacked, is barely better than a CM4221HD, so based on others' experiences as stampeder mentioned maybe the 4221HD is the best bet..

quickcurrent · 2009-04-19, 03:01 PM

Thank you, x4mer. I found one at Home Depot near Hwy7 and Yonge. Just wondering if you've also seen F-71 couplers somewhere, that's a male to male F-type coupler to couple my new splitter directly to the antenna. They must be available somewhere around here but googling only turns them up in the US and I haven't seen them anywhere locally. The popular ones are the female to female, but I need the reverse.

2009-04-15, 12:29 PM	#767
tenstu Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Oakville Ontario - 8th Line and Upper Middle Road Posts: 531	I have run my cables to the basement from my antennas and then combined and split them indoors. That way, if anything needs repair, it can be done inside. Advantageous - especially in winter. __________________ OTA CM4228-CM4221 Combined DTVPal DVR AppleTV 40GB Harmony 659 / 880 Unibody MBP 15 c2d 2.66 Mac Mini 2009 iPad 32 iPhone 3GS 2 Apple TV 40GB

2009-04-15, 09:31 PM	#770
tenstu Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Oakville Ontario - 8th Line and Upper Middle Road Posts: 531	Gotcha on the finished basement. In my opinion then, you should go back to home depot and get a large grey electrical box, the kind with a sealed, screw on cover, then drill holes in it just large enough for your coax to go through, do the splitting inside, seal up the cover and then silicon closed the holes around the coax. Check a day or two later and re-apply the silicon again around the holes, once the first layer has 'dried'. This should provide you enough protection for the splitter and connection from the elements. __________________ OTA CM4228-CM4221 Combined DTVPal DVR AppleTV 40GB Harmony 659 / 880 Unibody MBP 15 c2d 2.66 Mac Mini 2009 iPad 32 iPhone 3GS 2 Apple TV 40GB

2009-04-16, 01:11 PM	#772
quickcurrent Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Richmond Hill, ON Posts: 76	I'm going to have to find a one port current pass first, then try the splitter installed right at the antenna and run a couple of loose cables through a window, one for each TV. Antennas Direct is sending me a 50 foot RG6 QS for the longer run at no charge (supposedly they supply that in packages they sell directly to the consumer but not in the packages that they sell through dealers!) Then, once I've tested it that way, if it works well on both TVs, I'll do the permanent installation. A box is a good idea to seal the connections. The other option I am looking into is using a good one port pass splitter that is weather resistant and connecting that directly to the antenna, and then attach the cables to the splitter. I could silicone all connections to seal out all moisture. It would be great if I could find a splitter as described above but also with a female IN connector to avoid having to use a short wire length between the antenna (male connector) and the splitter (typically also male connectors), kind of like satellite twin and quad LNBs. But, maybe I'm dreaming! I'm still in the hunt for the right splitter. I'm thinking this one which passes DC current from either port but has built-in diode protection against current pass through and covers all frequencies. http://www.circuits2u.com/pages/JVI25HFS22DN.htm If only I could find one in the GTA so I didn't have to order online! Last edited by quickcurrent; 2009-04-16 at 04:12 PM.

2009-04-18, 09:41 AM	#775
aooa Rookie Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: GTA, Ontario Posts: 24	Richmond Hill: Stouffville & Yonge St I'm trying to decide on which antenna is better to get US and CAN stations. I understand that 4228 has longer range (considering Stouffville is further from CN tower/Bufallo) and 4221 has shorter range BUT has a much wider angle to pickup stations that are not aligned in a straight line... I tried searching for Stouffville in the search and found people east of me (> 15km? in Markham/Uxbridge) that's having good success with 4221... I guess what I'm not sure about is if I get a 4228, will I get more channels (is it worth spending the extra $$ for a 4228) or do will it be the same or a little bit worse than a 4221 since it's angle is not as wide as 4221? From the corner street of Yonge and Stouffville, I can actually see the CN tower straing south on a clear day... our house is 1 street NW of that corner. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. -- Edit: I just saw the latest PDF of the antenna chart - will a 4221 pre amp be better? Also considering any CM antenna I get will be the HD version not the original version... thanks. Last edited by stampeder; 2009-04-19 at 11:52 AM. Reason: city added to title ;)

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2009-04-15, 12:26 PM	#766
quickcurrent Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Richmond Hill, ON Posts: 76	Googling that phrase brings up all sorts of things. I suppose I could try just using one of the old splitters I have laying around from my cable days (I think they may go to 900 MHz only) and if they pass the voltage I should be alright then. If not, I'll have to get a new one probably for frequencies up to 3GHz. Would it matter if it's one port pass or two port pass if I am only using one inserter? Someone has told me that diplexers work really well to combine the sat and OTA signals outside and then separate them inside to avoid running new cables, but with all the connections that would entail in combination with the splitter, it seems to me that I may be better off running new cables. Any thoughts?

2009-04-15, 09:26 PM	#769
quickcurrent Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Richmond Hill, ON Posts: 76	tczernec, I have tested the antenna with a single TV as per one of my posts above and got five channels in HD with the antenna held five feet from the ground. Now I've installed the antenna about 3 feet below the roof overhang on the house wall which is two storeys high. I have no doubt that hooking up just one TV now will work beautifully, I might even get Buffalo, which would be a plus. But I'd really like to be able to feed both TVs. And, yes, I'll be keeping satellite as well for channels we don't get over the air. Sounds like I better find a place that sells splitters with only one port passing the DC then. Thanks for the explanation. I just picked up a 1GHz surge protected IDEAL digital cable splitter at Home Depot, but it doesn't sound like that is going to work then, as it says nothing about passing DC either over one port or two ports! I don't want to ruin the TVs (one is a 50 inch the other a 61 inch). Any idea where I can get one that passes DC over one port only, locally? tenstu, I did that with cable years ago before finishing my basement, but I can't do that anymore the basement is all finished.

2009-04-15, 09:48 PM	#771
tczernec Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Stouffville, ON Posts: 134	If you're looking to keep satellite as well as OTA on the same cable, I guess you'd be looking for a diplexer with a 1-port DC pass (to combine the OTA and satellite, but allowing the OTA power to feed up to the antenna preamp) followed by a 2-way splitter (again with 1-port DC pass for the antenna preamp)? Does the satellite require a power injector too? If so, I highly doubt you can feed power for both devices up the same cable, especially if they require different voltages. Even at the same voltage, the power injector may not be able to source enough current for both the antenna preamp and the satellite LNB. You might be best calling a specialty shop to see what they have and/or can recommend. You can try the sponsors here (saveandreplay.com) or ask one of the resident installers on the forum (eg. Yaamon). I just don't want to feed you any incorrect information on this since I have limited knowledge in this area!

2009-04-17, 06:33 PM	#773
x4mer Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Stouffville Posts: 315	Home Depot has them, I've seen them there.

2009-04-17, 09:27 PM	#774
quickcurrent Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Richmond Hill, ON Posts: 76	Which Home Depot? I was at the one in Vaughan but all they had was the one I bought (with spike protection) and an el cheapo that was just basic. I'll try the Home Depot in Richmond Hill tomorrow.

2009-04-18, 07:07 PM	#777
aooa Rookie Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: GTA, Ontario Posts: 24	That's what I did.. the problem is Stouffville is a street that stretch across multiple towns - Richmond Hill where I am to Markham that's 15km east of me... and both towns are part of this thread.. THanks for your reply - I'm leaning towards doing a cm4221 preamped..

2009-04-19, 11:50 AM	#778
stampeder OTA Forum Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North Delta, BC (96Av x 116St) Posts: 23,338	Oh I get it. In that case you need to try other search terms for your area. No harm in trying it 4 or 5 times with different words. You'll do fine with a CM4221 and preamp in Richmond Hill.

2009-04-19, 02:40 PM	#779
tczernec Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Stouffville, ON Posts: 134	Actually Stouffville Road doesn't go through Markham at all; it starts in Richmond Hill at Yonge Street and continues until it hits York/Durham Line in east Stouffville. Markham town limits are about 1 to 1/2 km south of Stouffville Rd Of course, many things don`t make sense around here, like the fact that most of Markham Road is actually in Toronto The separation between CN Tower and Buffalo is only 13 to 18 degrees (depending on Buffalo transmitter chosen) from Yonge/Stouffville Rd, so I don't really think you need a wide beamwidth. But, the new CM4228HD, unless modified/hacked, is barely better than a CM4221HD, so based on others' experiences as stampeder mentioned maybe the 4221HD is the best bet..

2009-04-19, 03:01 PM	#780
quickcurrent Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Richmond Hill, ON Posts: 76	Thank you, x4mer. I found one at Home Depot near Hwy7 and Yonge. Just wondering if you've also seen F-71 couplers somewhere, that's a male to male F-type coupler to couple my new splitter directly to the antenna. They must be available somewhere around here but googling only turns them up in the US and I haven't seen them anywhere locally. The popular ones are the female to female, but I need the reverse.