ON - Mississauga, Brampton, Bramalea, Port Credit - OTA

[HWP]

Please help if you can with your advice and experience.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...361657baa32bc0

Earlier today, we got together with friends at this location in Georgetown. They know I'm big into OTA and were curious about their location's potential.

I went on their roof today with an old Channel Master 4221 and a Channel Master 7775 pre-am (UHF-only pre-amp).

As you can see from the TV Fool report, the station I was most worried about was WGRZ NBC because it was scoring about -14dB. It came in fine.

Reception Report:

2 NBC
4 CBS
5 CBC
7 ABC
17 PBS
19 TVO
23 CW
25 Rad-Can
26 TCT (weak)
29 Fox
36 CTS
41 Global
47 Omni 1
49 MyTV Buffalo
57 City
69 Omni 2
plus all the related subchannels.

You'll notice that CTV rf9 was missing.

I'm not overly worried about the absence of CTV2 and CHCH -- we can wait them out for their arrival on UHF in a couple of months. CTS was coming in strong from Hamilton.

I borrowed a 7775 pre-amp from a friend. The antenna was aimed squarely at Buffalo. The 7775 pre-amp is a UHF-only pre-amp so it wasn't the preamp of choice but I didn't have a spare and that was the only one I could borrow.

My question is, are people in Georgetown normally able to get CFTO rf9 with a four-bay antenna while pointed at Buffalo? I don't want to have to devise a VHF solution if I don't have to. My hope is that a different pre-amp that provides some gain on VHF will pull rf9 in using a four-bay UHF antenna.

I'm going back in two weeks to do an installation.

I am planning to do a simple installation of a DB4e lagged into the peak of the roof with a satellite mount and a pre-amp. Maybe a PA-18 by Antennas Direct.

Do you think this is an acceptable antenna choice for this location?

[alebowgm]

HWP,

I too have a CM7775. I have tried using it as part of my primary setup in Windsor but with it on the line, it completely wipes out WJBK and CBET, on VHF 7 and 9 respectively. As soon as I take it off the line, the stations come in just fine (and by fine, I mean WJBK comes in at 100% on all my tuners). The CM7775 just kills whatever VHF signal that there is in the line.

One solution around this I found was to insert a simple 2 way splitter before the CM7775. One feed ran through the amp and preamp, the other circumvented it. Then I rejoined the lines using a splitter in reverse. I basically was re-injecting the VHF feed since the CM7775 nulls it out. Doing this saw me get pretty much my desired results at the time.

So my suggestion would be to dump the CM7775 and see if you can get a VHF 9 signal for CFTO. Just run direct to see the results. I didn't notice you saying anything about trying that before using the CM7775 in the setup.

[HWP]

Yeah. I assumed I'd need the pre-amp given the US signals especially the WGRZ result on TV Fool showing -14dB NM.

Thank you for the input re the 7775. That was exactly what I was hoping I'd hear from someone. In this situation it's not the right pre-amp but I can see how in spots with strong VHF/FM interference the 7775 might be just what the doctor ordered.

Thanks again!

[rob50312]

The 7775 preamp blocks all VHF signals.Use a UVJ and make a folded dipole for CFTO.7775 is excellent in UHF band.

[meridish]

Thanks Jase88 and rob50312 for the update on CKVR. It looks like I am extremely lucky to get CKVR in the attic. I just replaced my DB8 with a cheap eaglestar pro antenna with kiztech preamp. Results are amazing as I am also getting CHCH withput any problem.

Thanks

[David M]

Finally got family consensus that we don't watch enough channels to justify Rogers cable. I've had a Channelmaster 4228 for 4 years - chimney attachment set-up originally and got @ 7 stations - CBC and PBS the most important to me.
I joined 2 cable lengths and one end had a bad connector that I didn't sort out and then it was loaned to my parents.
Planning to have a more permanent installation this weekend . Could gain an extra 20 feet in height with a rooftop tripod (I have , but never used). Direct cable run would be 40-50 ft of cable.

The previous owner had cable installed in every room of the house.....
I was thinking of using the Rogers box to make use of the existing installed cable.
This would make the line 100 ft to the TV

Thoughts ?

TIA David

[roger1818]

With 100feet of line plus splitters you will most likely benefit from a pre-amp.

Don't connect the lines you aren't using and where possible, use the correct sized splitter. If you do have unused ports, cap them with a 75 ohm terminating resistor. Each splitter port produces extra loss in your system (even if it isn't used) and unterminated ports produce reflections that could cause interference problems.

[HWP]

Completed the installation on friends' house yesterday.

Antennas Direct DB4e
Antennas Direct PA-18 pre-amp
Antennas Direct Satellite Mount on peak of two-story pitched roof house.
Antenna is aimed at WGRZ

This is a follow-up report from a post I made a few weeks ago.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...361657baa32bc0

Still no VHF channels. CFTO 9, CHCH 11, CKVR 10. We're not concerned about the soon-to-be-UHF channels CHCH and CKVR, but CFTO remains a puzzle.

Even when I experimented with aim at Toronto and Hamilton, I couldn't get a lock on the VHF channels.

A bit frustrating. Anyway, on a future visit, I'll get back up there with a UVSJ and some sort of VHF antenna to finally get CTV.

Is anyone in Georgetown with a four-bay or eight-bay antenna having trouble with CFTO?

There are a couple of trees. Maybe it's the trees. Advice anyone?

PS: I already grasp the difference between UHF and VHF-high, but with a TV Fool of +51 for CFTO I was hoping I could avoid the VHF antenna.

[mrpeter105]

You probably need an fm trap. I read elsewhere that an ADTECH CSR commented that there was probably overload probably from the fm band.

I remember when I used that Philips preamp on my Kross antenna that I couldn't get rf11. It was at 10-15%. So I tried adding the fm trap just before the preamp and the signal shot up to 60+%. On UHF I didn't really notice any major difference with or without the fm trap.

If you don't have an fm trap you could try adding the preamp further down the line. In other words get the signal down enough that the preamp won't overload and be able to pass rf9.

[HWP]

Thanks for the advice. I have a spare FM Trap that I could try.

FM Fool Report:

http://www.fmfool.com/index.php?opti...pper&Itemid=29

It's hard to figure out where the radio overload would come from based on the strength of the FM stations in their area, plus the fact that it's a UHF antenna, etc. etc.

But I'm all for troubleshooting every possible variable.

Thanks for the advice.

[mrpeter105]

When you say that you couldn't get a lock on rf9 did you even see any signal level at all?

When I tried my Kross with the Philips preamp I couldn't get rf11 but could get rf9. I needed the fm trap to get rf11. So maybe this preamp kills everything on vhf if it becomes overloaded.

The question is, is it overloading? And if so what is causing it.

[HWP]

When I was installing the antenna, I used my HDHomeRun Android App when I was on the roof to aim the antenna.

The Android App works like the HDHomeRun Config application, for those that have an HDHomeRun.

It's a signal meter with three bars for Signal Strength, SNR Quality, and Symbol Quality.

The bars are red, yellow, green if there's a digital lock on the channel. There is nothing but greyed-out bars if there is no lock on a digital channel.

In my case, on CFTO the bars were greyed out indicating no digital lock, but the greyed-out signal strength bar was close to 100%. That could indicate overload or just the presence of the pre-amp.

I'm thinking I'll try to get a hold of an Antennacaft y5-7-13 or even a set of rabbit ears for the next time I visit. I wish I had a small vhf-only antenna in my collection of spares.

Friendly tip for those using smartphones on a roof: Think-up a way to tether it to your wrist somehow. The whole time I was standing up there holding my phone, I kept visualizing myself running off the roof trying to catch my $350 liability as its slide accellerates down the shingles towards the edge. Fortunately I didn't drop it.

[mrpeter105]

Maybe try without the preamp. Your not that far, 25 miles, so you should be able to get the locals without it. If rf9 then comes through then that would confirm overload.

P.S. i'm 15 miles and with attic install I still experienced fm overload. Since your outside, at 25 miles, your gain would be higher from fm stations. The fm stations would be from the CN tower would be my guess.

[HWP]

Genius that I am...both times I went on his roof, first to test with my 4221, and second to install the DB4e a few weeks later...both times, I forgot to check without a pre-amp.

The good news is they get, NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox, CW, PBS, and MyTV very reliably. And that is with his NBC showing -14 on the TV Fool, some sort of pre-amp is bound to be needed with those weak channels and three splits.

The PA18 has a very low noise figure, and medium-gain so I figured it would be a decent choice for that location.

Anyway, I'll keep tinkering with it if he lets me back up there!

[mrpeter105]

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.