ON - Niagara Peninsula - OTA

[Porshaah]

"Considering what you've built, your location and the antenna mount height,... you're actually doing pretty good, IMO."
I thought so too!

"Element dimensions? That initial SSH 6.5, 8.5, 15" design was somewhat lacking in the higher UHF channels. It may help if you trimmed those 15" legs down to 13" which should shift the UHF range up a bit and maybe it would help with Rogers & 49RF channels. After many trials and errors, the ultimate SSH element dimensions seemed to be geared around the 6",8",12.5" profile with a 2" or 3" feed gap spacing. "

My experience with the various Stealth Hawk designs in trimming the legs had little to no effect but I will try your suggestion now that you've saved me the time in trying to determine what the "latest and greatest" is for my current Super Stealth Hawk. I'm not familiar with the Rogers & 49RF channels. There's actually a channel that carries Rogers content? Would I be able to receive it with any STB DTV converter? What channel is it on? Are we talking about the same Roger (i.e. Rogers cable TV) that we've all grown to love and hate? What kind of program content can I expect? Is it local content, like broadcasts of town meetings which I remember when I subscribed to Cogeco cable channel 10? Is the 49RF channels the same as 49.1 and 49.2 (i.e. Rochester I believe) which I currently receive?

"Coat hangers will rust pretty quick"
If the patina rust provides is the only concern and steel doesn't reduce reception, is there any performance advantage to using any other material? I've gotten around the rust issue, by leaving the original clear coat on the hangers and just removing it at the connection point then spraying with laquer.

"Getting above the roof line is likely doable without too much cost/effort, but in most cases, getting above all trees is usually not doable."

I'm currently 18' above the roof line and I remember climbing the tree (i.e. the tree I have in mind to mount the antenna) as a kid and having a clear view north up the Welland canal.

"If your feeling really adventurous, you could re-bend those elements to these dimensions for a bi-directional SSH/GH element profile."

I believe my current stationary SSH antenna set at a NW/SE direction is bidirectional in that I'm receiving both Buffalo and Toronto stations along with Hamilton and Erie. Are you saying there's a potential to receive more channels in those directions ... like CITYTV and Global? I will investigate your suggestion.

Thanks again OTA_Canuck your knowledge is appreciated

[ota_canuck]

Rogers includes channel 57.1 CityTV and there are 2 Omni channels from Rogers Toronto. No it has nothing to do with Rogers subsciption cable services,.. this is strictly an OTA reception discussion. The channels 49.1,.2 are MyTV and CoolTV from Buffalo. Shortening those outer legs to 13" should help balance out the gain of the UHF bandwidth and will improve the upper end of the UHF band in order to get channels 40-51 a bit better.

The newer design SSH/GH elements are optimized to cover the UHF band with a little more balanced gain trend from channel 14-51 and VHF is still acceptable. Those newer SSH/GH element designs have 6",8",7" legs plus 5.5"stubs to level out the gain dips found within the channel 40-45 range. The links I provided earlier give specific detailed dimensions of the elements and for the assembly.

bi-directional? Yes,.. all of the elements that I've mentioned earlier that are being used without any reflector would produce a fairly even front/back bi-directional coverage area, but a slight backward sweep of the element will produce a wider beamwidth if you need more beamwidth coverage.

Rust/corrosion will eventually become a factor over time with coat hanger materials.

[ota_canuck]

Porshaah,
Can you please go to tvfool.com and use your exact address to create a tvfool report and then copy and paste the link to that report here?

[Porshaah]

OTA_Canuck

With the antenna mods suggested do you think it's possible I could receive the channels listed in my TVFool?

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...134934cc2fdb5b


Thanks again OTA_Canuck

[ota_canuck]

WOW! I just did a Port Colborne report for 20ft to compare with your 30ft report. Height is going to be your best friend.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...134979579d05a3

If you are not too concerned about future corrosion, then just simply trim those outer legs back to 13" to help center the UHF bandwidth and keep your aim about NW/SE and all should be great if your antenna is at your proposed 30ft.
_______________________________

From the other thread you reported:

able to receive 2.1,2; 4.1; 5.1; 7.1; 9.1; 11.1; 17.1,2,3; 19.1; 23.1; 24.1; 26.1,2,3,4; 29.1,2; 35.1,2; 49.1,2; 54.1,2,3; 66.1; 67.1,2,3,4

Looking at the 18ft and 30ft tvfool reports for Port Colborne, it really surprises me that you could even get channels 24, 35, 54 & 66 from Erie. This is interesting! Unless it was Erie channels rolling in due to tropo conditions.

[Porshaah]

"Looking at the 18ft and 30ft tvfool reports for Port Colborne, it really surprises me that you could even get channels 24, 35, 54 & 66 from Erie. This is interesting! Unless it was Erie channels rolling in due to tropo conditions. "

Channels 24, 35, 66 are hit and miss (i.e. mostly hit) on signal but channel 54 is rock steady, which is fine by me, I'm mostly interested in 54.2.

I don't put much faith in TVFool. I think TV stations update their transmitter power output / pattern without informing TVFool? This past spring, I suspected 5.1, 9.1, 11.1 were changing their transmitter settings, leading me to believe it was due to the leaves blooming on the surrounding old growth forest. After 2 weeks of hit and miss (i.e. mostly miss) signal loss, the signal is rock steady now. Also, during this time, I was able to receive 25.1 the French version of 5.1, which I would imagine emminate from the same transmitter. Also, makes me wonder if trees really affect the signal or if TV stations just bump their transmitter power to compensate for the anticipated signal loss due to trees blooming.

[stampeder]

Originally Posted by Porshaah

I think TV stations update their transmitter power output / pattern without informing TVFool?

There's a whole thread devoted to TVFool in the main OTA Forum that you should get familiar with if you have concerns about it, but for now the answer is an emphatic NO, stations never make changes without first applying and then receiving permission from either Industry Canada here or from the FCC in the U.S. to make any such changes. It is illegal to do so without such authorization. TVFool simply uses IC and FCC data. You'll find existing threads here on just about any OTA topic you can imagine.

Back to the topic of your local reception.

[Porshaah]

OTA_Canuck
Trimmed the legs to 13" but I'm not sure if I'm receiving any more stations or if the signal strength has improved on the ones I received before. I still havn't been able to receive channel 57 even after adjusting the direction from which I receive channel 5 and 9. I would assume if my antenna is set to receive channel 5 and 9 that would likely be the optimum direction setup for channel 57...correct? I just noticed there's a 2nd CITY transmitter near Woodstock ... maybe I'd have better luck setting my antenna in that direction although I prefer the current NW-SE setup as I receive the most stations I'm interested in, without having to adjust? I raised the antenna to 40 feet from 30 and I was unable to receive channels 5 and 9, although I received more US stations such as 8 and 10. The extra US stations appearded to be duplicate program content of other stations already received, so I lowered it back to 30 feet as "I need my CTV" (i.e. isn't there a song to that affect?)

Stampeder
I can understand the TV transmitters control on power but I'm wondering how accurate the TV Fool coverage pattern is. There appears to be artificial areas such as the one for channel 5 across the Niagara Peninsula and extending out into Lake Erie running North and South, inline with the Welland cannal (i.e. I'm located in that zone) On either side of this distinct parallel zone are areas of higher power. I can't believe that they can control the transmitter's power pattern that precisely.

[Dave Loudin]

Porshaah, you are seeing the effect of terrain on the reach of the signal. Some stations employ antennas that favor one direction over another, but the change is smooth. With TV signals being mostly line-of-sight, hills cast shadows, breaking up coverage and limiting the range of the signal. There is no such problem with transmitting over shorelines and water.

TVFool is one of the few freely available sites that takes terrain into account when making predictions.

[ota_canuck]

Porshaah,

CityTV is the same aim as most Toronto channels. The front of your antenna should be aimed directly 'NORTH' [compass 2°] for Toronto channels. Toronto is 50+ miles away, so a 5° error in aiming could be critical.

Do you have a Preamp on the antenna? [you should have a preamp for Toronto]
Are there any Buildings or trees or hills or water towers in the way?

Did you build your antenna exact to the specified dimensions. Every minor design variation can add up to a significant loss in antenna gain. It appears that you are having problems with channels that broadcast within the 40RF range, which makes me question if your antenna's element dimensions may be out or wack.

The specific SSH element design leg lengths for each element should be:
[13"] [8"] [6"] [center] [6"] [8"] [13"] with a 2" feed point gap between the left and right elements
The wire that you made the elements with can not have wiggles & kinks,.. 'wire straighness' & the 'element's profile straightness' is very important.

[Porshaah]

Originally Posted by ota canuck

Do you have a Preamp on the antenna? [you should have a preamp for Toronto]

Yes, but it's an old one I picked up from Active Surplus years ago and is on the converter end of the coax, it would likely be better if it was closer to the antenna. When I connect it, I get few percent increase in signal strength but the quality goes down.

Are there any Buildings or trees or hills or water towers in the way?

Many 100ft trees. I raised the antenna another 10 feet to 40 and I lost CTV and the CBC. When I lowered it a few feet I was able to receive them again as if there's a window for the signal. I'm able to receive CH 9.1 more readily than either of the 2 CBC channels dispite it having a lower transmitter power than the English CBC (i.e. CH5.1). CTV's signal is optimized slightly west of CBC's optimized signal direction. Even though the 2 CBC channels emmanate from the same location I have less difficulty receiving the French version (i.e. CH 25.1) dispite the English channel (i.e. CH 5.1) having significantly more transmitter power. For these reasons and more I think something odd is affecting the signal from Toronto as they travel down the Welland canal as indicated on TV Fool map. Maybe the bridges are reflecting the signal, in fact now that I think about it I believe the signal was more consistant in the winter . Maybe due to the fact that canal traffic is nil and the bridges aren't being raised and lowered?

Did you build your antenna exact to the specified dimensions

The antenna I built is very exact. I receive 41, 45, 66 intermitenly and 49, 54, 67 consistently.

[gygeneral]

HI, I just put up 2 - CM4228HD antenna's on my roof. They are about 25 ft above ground. One pointing north and the other south/east to Buffalo. I am in Fonthill.
American channels are no problem, all coming in at 90%+ signal strenght. The problem is the Canadian channels. CBC (5-1) and CHCH (11-1) are coming in fine (40% signal strength), but CTV (9-1) is at 14% and unwatchable (very choppy). City and Global (57-1 and 41-1) aren't coming in at all.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...9900b4d4adc63b

Question is, any suggestions on how to improve the reception of the Cdn channels?

[Jase88]

^^^ Welcome to the forums!

Note that CFTO 9.1 (Toronto) is a VHF station, while the other Toronto stations are UHF.

[ota_canuck]

^^^ specifically,... explain how you joined those 2 antennas? You may have them joined out of phase, so if you just used a splitter and 2 equal length jumper cables, then you may have to reverse one of those antennas with balun upside down.

This is a general Fonthill tvfool report:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...9900171e8411ef

Fonthill is one of the highest elevations along the penninsula,.. you should have LOS to Toronto,.. so I wonder why your report shows poorer reception. Are you in one of those lower ravine areas?

[gygeneral]

Originally Posted by ota_canuck

how you joined those 2 antennas? You may have them joined out of phase, so if you just used a splitter and 2 equal length jumper cables, then you may have to reverse one of those antennas with balun upside down.

Can you explain this? Basically its what you said, they are mounted one on top of the other, equal lenght of RG6 cable to a splitter, then down to the TV. I don't understand why it would make a difference if an antenna is upside down.

What I don't get is I don't even detect City TV and Global.

Oh, I am down the hill in Fonthill, closer to Welland

Thanks