Toshiba 1080p - 56HM195, 62MX195, 72MX195 end of Oct - Page 6 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

grider · 2005-10-23, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanadianZ

Just bought the 56HM195 at dealer cost through my best friend, site unseen.

Are you willing to share how much you paid?

CanadianZ · 2005-10-23, 07:44 PM

Don't want to upset any dealers, they gotta be able to make an honest buck, but let's just say the deal mentioned at the top of this page for a 56hm195 and stand for $3200 cannot happen.

This is the newest of the new for single chip DLP RPTV's, of course there is going to be a bit of a premium on them for few months anyways.

CanadianZ

JohnnyCanuck7 · 2005-10-24, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icemann

Johnny Canuck, the MSRP's on the Toshiba website were cranked up last week. I know on the 72mx195 I ordered it was $5999 MSRP for the longest time and then last week they changed it to $6999. But, they have not changed the pricing to the dealer so they must be just giving the dealer the ability to discount or get more margin while they can.

I know I've gotten more than 25% off of the new MSRP.

The OLD MSRP on the 62MX195 was $5000.
The NEW MSRP on the 62MX195 is $6000.

As I said before, generally Toshiba's "Dealer cost" is 25% of the MSRP.
IF the old MSRP was $5000, than the "dealer cost" would be $3750.
You said you were quoted a 62MX195 WITH a stand for $3800.00, that means the dealer is selling it below cost. ARe you sure you aren't talking about the 720p 62HMX85 and NOT the 1080P 62MX195?

JohnnyCanuck7 · 2005-10-24, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daz-man

Well according to HP the MSRP is $5624.99. The sad thing is they don't know what resellers will carry the TV. I heard Best Buy is going to but I'm not sure.

I saw the 56HM195 and wasn't impressed with the PQ as I thought the 56HM85 was just as good.

I don't trust in store Demo's for a number of reasons, but mainly because teh component video distribution systems (the majority of stores will NOT use DVI/HDMI video distribution system) has to be connected to something, and at a lot of stores that something is a Bell HD box or Shaw/Rogers HD box (perhaps with PVR).

Anyways, if the box is set to 720P, the 1080P units are at a disadvantage. If the box is set to 1080i, then the 720P tv's are at a disadvantage. Either way, we are not getting a fair comparison...

grider · 2005-10-24, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Canuck

I don't trust in store Demo's for a number of reasons, but mainly because teh component video distribution systems (the majority of stores will NOT use DVI/HDMI video distribution system) has to be connected to something, and at a lot of stores that something is a Bell HD box or Shaw/Rogers HD box (perhaps with PVR).

Anyways, if the box is set to 720P, the 1080P units are at a disadvantage. If the box is set to 1080i, then the 720P tv's are at a disadvantage. Either way, we are not getting a fair comparison...

Very good point!

I wonder when stores will start upgrading thier systems. With the move to predominantly HD sales you'd think it would be coming.I suppose we shouldn't expect too much from big box stores, but I'm alway's suprised (many times) when specialty stores don't have good feeds. Why wouldn't they want to show the TV in it's best way?

Yaamon · 2005-10-24, 09:07 AM

Johnny Canuck don't most of the hd tv convert a 1080i picture to 720p without any real signal loss in quality.

I have seen Sony and Jvc tv that displays 720p native and accept a 1080i signal and watching off air on the weekend Nfl Cbs and Fox at the same time there was no loss in any quality from the Cbs feed at 1080i with the Sony native at 720p.

I do understand your point about not setting up the hd feed properly in a component distribution system.

Many stores are taking a hd feed via Rogers/Satellite and into a component distribution system.

Icemann · 2005-10-24, 09:53 PM

My dealer wants to deliver the 72mx195 tomorrow night so it appears they are in Canada now. I won't have much time to tweak it tomorrow but I'll put up a mini-review as soon as I can. Plus, I haven't bought an upconverting DVD player yet or a second 6412.

Yaamon · 2005-10-24, 10:59 PM

Icemann please let us know your impression of the 72".

I was at f.shop today to pickup a surge bar for someone and again had some time to kill so I looked on the Sony 60" XBR beside it was just the regular Toshiba 52HM85.

I set the Sony on Pro mode and the Toshiba on movie and then adjusted brightness to 55 on the Toshiba still the picture was a bit too dark.

Anyway watching the hd demo loop they had they had a clip of Star Wars III and I was suprised the Toshiba looked so good.

Very close to the Sony, I was impressed, I never noticed the smaller tv as I was always interested in a larger set. The colors was almost as vibrant, sharp, and detailed and a smooth picture.

One thing I did notice is that the 52hm85 seems to push towards blue. Temp was on warm. On darth varder suit and helmet it was dark dark blue. On some of the bright scene a bit cool.

Nothing the service menu would not correct.

Three tv away was the 62HMX85. I setup this tv also to movie and added brightness to 53. Previously in the store I was not impressed with this picture. Dont know if the tv needed to be calibrated or what but the picture looked like crap compared to the 52" and the Sony.

The text was not sharp and looking at the tv close you could see the diamond shape pixels. I went 8" in front of the 52" and did not notice the diamond shape ?

Why did the 62" look like crap compared to the 52".

Please do let us know once you have your tv in your home what it really looks like.

I cancelled my 72" and ordered the Jvc 70FH96.

I saw the 62MX195 on the weekend and compared to the Sony there was quite a bit of difference that I did not like.

daz-man · 2005-10-25, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yaamon

I saw the 62MX195 on the weekend and compared to the Sony there was quite a bit of difference that I did not like.

Yaamon, so you found the Sony better? I saw the 72MX195 today for about 10mins and it looked good for a set that size but I have yet to see the HP or the Sony SXRD.

JohnnyCanuck7 · 2005-10-25, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yaamon

Johnny Canuck don't most of the hd tv convert a 1080i picture to 720p without any real signal loss in quality.

I have seen Sony and Jvc tv that displays 720p native and accept a 1080i signal and watching off air on the weekend Nfl Cbs and Fox at the same time there was no loss in any quality from the Cbs feed at 1080i with the Sony native at 720p.

I do understand your point about not setting up the hd feed properly in a component distribution system.

Many stores are taking a hd feed via Rogers/Satellite and into a component distribution system.

A TV will look best running a source at its native resolution.

If the TV has the same optics, etc. then a 1280 X 720 DLP will look better on a 720P source than a 1920 X 1080p DLP.

With that said, a 1290 X 1080P dlp will look better on a 1080i source than a
1280 X 720P DLP.

However, some cable boxes (like motorola 6412) have you said that output independntly so say the box is set to 720P output (but the channel was on a 1080i channel like PBS) than the 720P sets would have an unfair advantage of 1080i sets because of the motorola HD setup...

Yaamon · 2005-10-25, 09:24 AM

daz-man when you have time take a look on the Sony set it up on pro mode and go from there you will be impressed with the picture quality.

How did the 72" look to you I dont know why but on the older 85 series the 52 looks so good compared to the 62".

I would buy the older 52hm85" for my bedroom if I did no buy the Sony crt this summer.

I saw the 56 & 62" 195 series last weekend and the picture quality was not bad. Iam sure most consumers will find no fault and like the tv, but Iam a little picky.

The hd demo feed they had on Rogers much music was crap. At times the tv looked really great and then at times I could see digital noise(artifacts) that was not present on the Sony.

I would have prefer if he had a off air antenna as some live US college football games are in hd.

The Sony has a better digital noise reduction of the digital signal. I bet with a better HD feed the new 195 is impressive.

I spoke to the Jvc rep yesterday and he said the one thing that he and others reps noticed comapred to their 720p vs 1080p is the digital noise. The 1080p has a clean smooth picture.

A noise free picture gives the look os a smooth clean poicture.

Iam hoping that it does. I prefer the look of the lcos and wanted the Jvc but the rep back then thought the tv was going to be another $2000.00 more than the current 70".

Jvc Canada just got pricing on Monday and it going to sell for $1000.00 less than the older model. Retail in the stores is going to be $7000.00

Iam just hoping thr Jvc picture was just like there previous 70" but better.

Johnny C I do understand that a tv looks best at its native resolution. I wonder if anybody took a hd tuner and output a 720p signal and then switch it to 1080i and see if there is a big conversion loss ?

How does a current 720p handle the 1080i signal from the built in atsc tuner compared to Abc and Fox at 720p

I know at my parents when I was there on one weekend there was no loss in quality from Cbs to Fox Nfl on his 42A10 720p tv. Actually the Cbs looked cleaner but there are lots of variables. camera compression etc to affect the picture quality.

daz-man · 2005-10-25, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yaamon

How did the 72" look to you I dont know why but on the older 85 series the 52 looks so good compared to the 62".

I'm picky as well so when the 52 and 62HMX85s came out I went down with a couple of DVDs, Gladiator and Pirates of the Caribbean. I picked these two because both had dark seens that are hard on DLPs and Gladiator has some real colourful scenes so I thought they would serve be good for testing the TVs.

I have to admit the 52HMX85 looked good even on the HD channels. While I didn't play and DVDs on the 56MX195 I was disappointed in the PQ. I really wanted the 62MX195 but now that I've been let down I don't know what I'll do. I expected more from the Toshibas and the 72MX195 was nice but the detail isn't there.

Yaamon · 2005-10-25, 11:45 AM

daz-man I have to agree the 52Hm and HMX85 does look really good.

Comparing the 52Hm85 to the Sony 60" XBR the picture looked very close it had depth that I did not see in the 195 series. But then again the HD feed that I saw last weekend was not that hot.

I would love to see these tv again with a good signal, Iam sure the picture quality should be better.

Icemann · 2005-10-25, 02:16 PM

Had to delay the delivery to Thursday. I just didn't have time to wait for it tonight so the mini-review will be a little later. I have also ordered a Toshiba 6980 upconverting DVD player to see how it looks.

grider · 2005-10-25, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yaamon

daz-man I have to agree the 52Hm and HMX85 does look really good.

Comparing the 52Hm85 to the Sony 60" XBR the picture looked very close it had depth that I did not see in the 195 series. But then again the HD feed that I saw last weekend was not that hot.

I would love to see these tv again with a good signal, Iam sure the picture quality should be better.

You are saying the Sony 60" SXRD which is a very high quality dense pixel 1080p set with near zero SDE looked similar to the 720p Toshiba 52HM85? This does not make sense. I have seen both of these TV's and while I agree the 52HM85 has a very good picture, it is not in the same league as the Sony SXRD which has an absolutely stunning picture... easily the best I have seen.

What combination of terrible feed and incorrect settings could make these TV's seem close?

2005-10-24, 09:07 AM	#81
Yaamon Veteran Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: 300 Steelcase Road W, #20 Markham,905470 9604 ext 230 Posts: 1,795	Johnny Canuck don't most of the hd tv convert a 1080i picture to 720p without any real signal loss in quality. I have seen Sony and Jvc tv that displays 720p native and accept a 1080i signal and watching off air on the weekend Nfl Cbs and Fox at the same time there was no loss in any quality from the Cbs feed at 1080i with the Sony native at 720p. I do understand your point about not setting up the hd feed properly in a component distribution system. Many stores are taking a hd feed via Rogers/Satellite and into a component distribution system. __________________ CM4228/9521/7775;F.RmJvc70FH96/8300HDPvr/Dish 612;B.Rm LC52LE810UN/8642HD;Study LG50PK550/Xbox360;

2005-10-24, 10:59 PM	#83
Yaamon Veteran Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: 300 Steelcase Road W, #20 Markham,905470 9604 ext 230 Posts: 1,795	Icemann please let us know your impression of the 72". I was at f.shop today to pickup a surge bar for someone and again had some time to kill so I looked on the Sony 60" XBR beside it was just the regular Toshiba 52HM85. I set the Sony on Pro mode and the Toshiba on movie and then adjusted brightness to 55 on the Toshiba still the picture was a bit too dark. Anyway watching the hd demo loop they had they had a clip of Star Wars III and I was suprised the Toshiba looked so good. Very close to the Sony, I was impressed, I never noticed the smaller tv as I was always interested in a larger set. The colors was almost as vibrant, sharp, and detailed and a smooth picture. One thing I did notice is that the 52hm85 seems to push towards blue. Temp was on warm. On darth varder suit and helmet it was dark dark blue. On some of the bright scene a bit cool. Nothing the service menu would not correct. Three tv away was the 62HMX85. I setup this tv also to movie and added brightness to 53. Previously in the store I was not impressed with this picture. Dont know if the tv needed to be calibrated or what but the picture looked like crap compared to the 52" and the Sony. The text was not sharp and looking at the tv close you could see the diamond shape pixels. I went 8" in front of the 52" and did not notice the diamond shape ? Why did the 62" look like crap compared to the 52". Please do let us know once you have your tv in your home what it really looks like. I cancelled my 72" and ordered the Jvc 70FH96. I saw the 62MX195 on the weekend and compared to the Sony there was quite a bit of difference that I did not like. __________________ CM4228/9521/7775;F.RmJvc70FH96/8300HDPvr/Dish 612;B.Rm LC52LE810UN/8642HD;Study LG50PK550/Xbox360;

2005-10-25, 09:24 AM	#86
Yaamon Veteran Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: 300 Steelcase Road W, #20 Markham,905470 9604 ext 230 Posts: 1,795	daz-man when you have time take a look on the Sony set it up on pro mode and go from there you will be impressed with the picture quality. How did the 72" look to you I dont know why but on the older 85 series the 52 looks so good compared to the 62". I would buy the older 52hm85" for my bedroom if I did no buy the Sony crt this summer. I saw the 56 & 62" 195 series last weekend and the picture quality was not bad. Iam sure most consumers will find no fault and like the tv, but Iam a little picky. The hd demo feed they had on Rogers much music was crap. At times the tv looked really great and then at times I could see digital noise(artifacts) that was not present on the Sony. I would have prefer if he had a off air antenna as some live US college football games are in hd. The Sony has a better digital noise reduction of the digital signal. I bet with a better HD feed the new 195 is impressive. I spoke to the Jvc rep yesterday and he said the one thing that he and others reps noticed comapred to their 720p vs 1080p is the digital noise. The 1080p has a clean smooth picture. A noise free picture gives the look os a smooth clean poicture. Iam hoping that it does. I prefer the look of the lcos and wanted the Jvc but the rep back then thought the tv was going to be another $2000.00 more than the current 70". Jvc Canada just got pricing on Monday and it going to sell for $1000.00 less than the older model. Retail in the stores is going to be $7000.00 Iam just hoping thr Jvc picture was just like there previous 70" but better. Johnny C I do understand that a tv looks best at its native resolution. I wonder if anybody took a hd tuner and output a 720p signal and then switch it to 1080i and see if there is a big conversion loss ? How does a current 720p handle the 1080i signal from the built in atsc tuner compared to Abc and Fox at 720p I know at my parents when I was there on one weekend there was no loss in quality from Cbs to Fox Nfl on his 42A10 720p tv. Actually the Cbs looked cleaner but there are lots of variables. camera compression etc to affect the picture quality. __________________ CM4228/9521/7775;F.RmJvc70FH96/8300HDPvr/Dish 612;B.Rm LC52LE810UN/8642HD;Study LG50PK550/Xbox360; Last edited by Yaamon; 2005-10-25 at 09:33 AM.

2005-10-25, 11:45 AM	#88
Yaamon Veteran Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: 300 Steelcase Road W, #20 Markham,905470 9604 ext 230 Posts: 1,795	daz-man I have to agree the 52Hm and HMX85 does look really good. Comparing the 52Hm85 to the Sony 60" XBR the picture looked very close it had depth that I did not see in the 195 series. But then again the HD feed that I saw last weekend was not that hot. I would love to see these tv again with a good signal, Iam sure the picture quality should be better. __________________ CM4228/9521/7775;F.RmJvc70FH96/8300HDPvr/Dish 612;B.Rm LC52LE810UN/8642HD;Study LG50PK550/Xbox360;

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2005-10-23, 07:44 PM	#77
CanadianZ Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 29	Don't want to upset any dealers, they gotta be able to make an honest buck, but let's just say the deal mentioned at the top of this page for a 56hm195 and stand for $3200 cannot happen. This is the newest of the new for single chip DLP RPTV's, of course there is going to be a bit of a premium on them for few months anyways. CanadianZ

2005-10-24, 09:53 PM	#82
Icemann Veteran Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Vancouver Posts: 1,651	My dealer wants to deliver the 72mx195 tomorrow night so it appears they are in Canada now. I won't have much time to tweak it tomorrow but I'll put up a mini-review as soon as I can. Plus, I haven't bought an upconverting DVD player yet or a second 6412.

2005-10-25, 02:16 PM	#89
Icemann Veteran Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Vancouver Posts: 1,651	Had to delay the delivery to Thursday. I just didn't have time to wait for it tonight so the mini-review will be a little later. I have also ordered a Toshiba 6980 upconverting DVD player to see how it looks.