Tivo in Canada Discussion

[theGUYman]

The following is based on snip-its I have read over the last year and some of my thoughts.

For those of you that actually have been following the Tivo story, you will know that DirecTV and Tivo had a falling out in the USA, and that DirecTV down there is soon to release their home grown Tivo-like box. Meaning a box with no "Tivo inside". Which means Tivo's revenue will be impacted somewhat as a LOT of their boxes were DirecTV/Tivo combo units.

Word has it that DirecTV will make these new boxes VERY attractive to their customers...

My thinking is that the Tivo push into Canada will help mitigate loosing the DirecTV revenue stream. Especially when Canadians seem to enjoy more tech'y stuff in general...

Another thought is what drove the split between the DirecTV and Tivo: I think Tivo revealed to DirecTV their plans to offer a download service to their clients, on their non DirecTV boxes, that is, offering a pay-per-view like download service over the internet.

Well, this flies in the face of what DirecTV wants to do. Yep, offer a download service in their STP that will actually download the movie of choice during the night (which is easy given the tons of bandwith they have and cheap hardware today), and stored on your hard disk, for you to watch at your leisure.

Not to mention in the not to distant future, movies will be offered to all distribution mediums and venues at the SAME TIME. Movie theaters (various 'plex's), rental stores (Blockbuster/Rogers/ Hollywood Video...), purchase (WalMart, BB, FS...), Cable, Satellite (DirecTV / Dish / BEV / SC / SKY...), and Internet (Tivo, Microsoft Media Center Edition...) all on the same release date!

Obviously some market convergence going on here as we speak. Very cool! What a great time to see this all happen...

Comments?

[hugh]

random thoughts..

I think TIVO is way too late in coming to Canada, if they are!

When I was with Rogers for a short time in 1997, I questioned why Rogers wouldn't embrace TIVO but at the time, I think it was just too way ahead of the curve and if TIVO had come then it probably would have been a failure.

If TIVO had of come to Canada, however in 2001 or 2002, I think they would have dominated since the cable companies didn't have an alternative and BEV had brought out the 5100.

Now every cable and satellite company is flogging their equipment and is not interested in TIVO. A small number of folks like us might still want it but we're not a large enough group to allow them to be profitable.

[peano]

In my opinion, TiVo will be toast.

[hugh]

After more research into the topic, I wonder if TIVO really wants to move into Canada and is just be coming to Canada so they can try and halt the pirates operating in this country?

It would be sad if TIVO was wiped out because of pirates.

Sadly, it seems we can't develop tech in this country only pirate it.

[CTVdude]

TIVO Canada = Good News

Tivo implementing DRM = Bad News


TiVo 7.2 OS adds content protection, blocks transfers, and auto-deletes some shows
http://www.pvrblog.com/pvr/2005/09/tivo_72_os_adds.html

[peano]

It would be sad if TIVO was wiped out because of pirates.

TiVo will be wiped out because DirecTv is dumping them and because SA and Echostar boxes will continue to improve. Not sure what pirates have to do with it.

[theGUYman]

I predict that Tivo will be successful 'cause they are not tied to any operator / provider, have an interface that works very well, and the features are just too dam sexy. And there boxes will be cheaper. And think about the marketing behind the product. They undoubtedly will have B-Buy and F-Shop on their side, and have big displays in the stores... I have noticed more and more references to "tivo" on TV shows and movies lately, as it has become a verb like "xerox".

Ah don't mind me, I am just a tivo freak...

[JohnnyCanuck]

TiVo is not moving into Canada in response to the activities of Canadian users. The writers of the Simplicity software package have been very respectful of TiVo. TiVo has been aware of the activities and have even gone to the extent of asking the operators of TiVoCanada.com to allow them to register to the forums. TiVo has not expressed any concerns to the Simplicity/TiVoCanada people and, more importantly, has not asked TMS to stop providing the listings to Simplicity. TMS is a large commerical enterprise that would not expose itself to a legal action from TiVo by providing DataDirect listings to Simplicity if TiVo had a concern. The same situation exists in Australia where you can use a TiVo via OzTiVo.

Simplicity takes special care to ensure that it cannot be used to pirate TiVo service in areas that TiVo service is available. It does an IP based location check every time it is run and it must be a vaild Canadian IP to operate. This is not, in any way, an issue of piracy.

TiVo is moving into Canada to try and increase volume. Nothing more, nothing less.

As a Canadian who has used TiVo for about 18 months, I can rave about the product, but I think TiVo is much too late to make an impact in Canada. Now that all the service providers have dual tuner HD-PVR's available, I am not sure that the market amongst the "early adopter" set will be there at all.

For others, DVD/HDD Recorders become lower cost and more user friendly every day. TVGOS or similar functionality is being built into these units now and as the bugs get worked out the added utility of TiVo's remarkable UI does not merit the service fee attached.

For me, my Series1 TiVo will likely be obsolete shortly. TiVo has not upgraded the software for Series1 units for a long time and it is only v.7.2 that seems to support Canadian users. Unless TiVo decides to provide an upgrade to V.3.1 that is used on Series1 units, I will still be unable to purchase TiVo service for my current unit. The combined cost of new hardware and a lifetime sub doesn't make a lot of sense since my only use is for non-HD source material. I already have a DCT6412 for HD. I will likely replace the TiVo by building a low end HTPC or by buying a DVD/HDD Recorder with G.Link and probably TVGOS (it will improve).

For someone who loves the TiVo interface, is entirely familiar with the product, and thinks it is untouchable in so many ways; the fact that I will likely not be moving on to another unit speaks to the realization that TiVo missed the boat in Canada and is arriving much too late to be of any serious impact.

[hugh]

I remember I called TIVO press relations in late 2001 and asked them why they weren't in Canada. The guy finally got back to me several days later saying he had no answer, it seemed they simply hadn't seriously considered it!

[supergenius]

As a ReplayTv (better, smarter, faster twin of the Tivo ) owner x2 for the past 3 yrs. I unfortunately must agree with the sentiments expressed by all that it is too little, too late for Tivo to hope to capture the Canadian PVR market. When I was looking to add a PVR to my HT setup over 3 yrs. ago the offerings from cable/satellite providers were crude and really not comparable to what ReplayTv and Tivo were offering. The only real choice I had was to buy a ReplayTV unit, and I have never regretted that decision. However, fast forward to today and we have basically all providers offering dual tuner HDTV PVRs that have somewhat advanced features and decent gui systems plus NO EXTRA FEES. I think Tivo marketing is going to be hard pressed to convince the average buyer that the extra features Tivo provides warrant the unit price PLUS subscription. Then layer on top the added complexitiy of setting up the TIVO with accompanying IR blaster and I just don't think you will be able to convince the average Joe that a Tivo PVR is better than the one offered by their Tv provider.

It seems to me that even those of us who are current owners are in the process of retiring our ReplayTv/Tivo in favour of the more advanced PVRs being introduced today. I for one have replaced one of my ReplayTV units for a Bell 9200 system and am seriously considering selling my lifetime subbed unit for another 9200. On AVS Forums people are constantly announcing switches from standalone PVR's to more advanced HDTV PVR's offered by their content providers. Its great news that Canada finally made it onto Tivo's radar screen, but I fear if Tivo is relying on Canada to help prop up their business and stem the bleeding they will be sorely mistaken.

[Rick]

A question for you guys that have TiVo -- Can you set it to record all NEW episodes of a series? I was under the impression that this was possible and it is the one thing that would swing me to that system if it were easily available here. The SA series only lets me record every instance on a channel or else every instance at a given time -- new or not. (And it doesn't always work anyway, so generally I set it each week.) It's a real pain, especially now that so many series seem to be going into reruns at odd times in the season, only to start new episodes again four or six weeks later.

[Robobob]

The Tivo interface is way superior to any PVR avaiable in Canada. Not only can you do name based recordings (and select new only) you can create "Wish Lists" which is what I'm most interested in.

Just enter the name of you favorite actor and it'll record anything they're in...If a movie is on...it records it. If they're on the Tonight Show...it recrords it. That's an awesome feature.

Plus..It also learns what you like a records shows automatically. That's pretty cool too.
In fact I read a funny article called "My Tivo thinks I'm Gay!" where a guy had recorded some shows like "Queer Eye for the Straight" guy and "Will and Grace" and then the Tivo started recording a bunch of other "gay" stuff for him.

(BTW..I don't have a Tivo...that's just what I've read)

[rob1]

I WAS using a Tivo Series two w/simplicity just a few months back. Tivo has a great interface and is by far more advanced then any Canadian TV providers PVR/DVR...and it was wife friendly! My wife loved it!!

Sadly, if you want HD or dual tuner options...your out of luck (unless you have the US service of DirecTV). That's the main reason I went with a Bell 9200.

But I miss (as does my wife) the Tivo interface with 13 day guide!

Cheers

[Wayne]

Originally Posted by hugh

After more research into the topic, I wonder if TIVO really wants to move into Canada and is just be coming to Canada so they can try and halt the pirates operating in this country?

It would be sad if TIVO was wiped out because of pirates.

Sadly, it seems we can't develop tech in this country only pirate it.

Calling us pirates is a bit harsh. Here is what we did - bought a TiVo from the US either at a store or, very often, bought a used TiVo off of eBay. In many cases you then had to buy a network card for the TiVo.

You then installed software on your PC which downloaded free TV guide information from a website in XML format. That was then reformatted and stored into the TiVo database.

We could not buy this service from TiVo since they did not have guide data for Canadian stations, with the exceptions of OTA stations near the border.

When I bought my two TiVos off of eBay was I required to subscribe to a service? I don't think so. I am not stealing content from TiVo, I am using some software that is built into the TiVo machine but I paid for that when I bought the machine. If TiVo chooses to sell that at a loss then that is their business decision, just as when the X-Box or PS2 (or Gillette razor for that matter)is sold at a loss.

How does that make one a pirate?

[pab]

Wayne, I completely agree with you on this. I'm not stealing anything with my Tivo. Whether or not Tivo gets money for me utilizing their product with another service that is perfectly legal is irrelevant. Anyone that considers this stealing is not knowledgeable enough about how it works.

If anyone is interested in reading a comparison I made between the Tivo and the 8300hd, you can find it at here:

http://www.digitalhomecanada.com/for...ad.php?t=21161

I love both. However, I also agree that it is too late for tivo to break into the market here in Canada unless you are a videophile like myself.

pab