Analog cable - Page 2 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

bolmsted · 2002-10-23, 02:46 PM

I think of "Moore's Law". Given time, the technology will come down in price as quantities increase.

james99 · 2002-10-23, 02:56 PM

I thought VDSL was only being used in apartment buildings.

Do you have any more info regarding Bell's plans for this technology?

bolmsted · 2002-10-23, 03:16 PM

no I don't have any info. my colleague isn't in the office today and probably not tomorrow as he is working with a vendor for an upgrade. I'll ask him the next time he's on site if he has any documentation provided from Bell, etc. He's currently at "Young & Egligible" I believe but will be moving closer to the 401 I believe next year when his condo's done so I don't know if this will be the last he will have it.

I thought it would be the same as ADSL deployment, but maybe shorter distances to your local central office. As long as the distance is less than 4K from the CO?

Bassbonist · 2002-10-29, 12:36 PM

I think a transition will take probably about 10 years or longer...I feel that part of the stratgey of the conversion is to make any new channels available as digital only.-- I also believe that we will see the STB replaced some day with a "special card" that is provided by the cable company that is inserted directly into the TV which would be programmed with the channel mapping info etc., which will utilizes once again the tuner built into the TV. (This would reduce costs to the Cableco.)

Another thing that encourages more and more people to sign of for digital cable, is that there is more value in it. I will use Pricing in Calagry as an example:

The package that includes all of the Analog channels is called "Full Cable service." This includes one outlet with 64 Channels for $42.77/month. For a second outlet, add another $4.75/month..the third is another $1.25.month and a fourth outlet is free.

With the purchase if a STB, you can sign up for the "Premiere Entertainment Package" which is 43.95/month that includes up to 3 extra outlets with analog cable, (total 4 outlets) and 161 channels. (Breaks down to 64 analog channels, 7 digital TV networks, 40 digital music channels, and 50 Pay-perview Channels.)

Bassbonist · 2002-10-29, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jvillain

With Shaw in Calgary all of the basic cable stuff comes in analogue and this takes up the lower channels I think up into the 40's. Only the stuff that you can only get with a digital box is digital. Bassbonist can correct me if I am wrong.--
I would guess that once digital terminal penetration hits a certain mark they will either force every one to pay to get a digital box or rent them one.
There are gonna be a lot of people resistant to the change though.

You are basiclly correct. The Analog Channels in Calgary are channels 2-54, 70.and 77-88.

I think that when penetraion of digital is around 80-90%, everyone will have to have a STB....

travisc · 2002-10-29, 02:06 PM

Penetration of digital will never get to 80-90% until the transition is forced, IMO.

Bassbonist · 2002-10-30, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travisc

Penetration of digital will never get to 80-90% until the transition is forced, IMO.

Ya...penetration is about 23% with Shaw right now..who knows when anaolg will be gone for sure

wysiwyg · 2002-10-30, 06:32 PM

Many people will never want a digital box even if they are offered for free or paid to get one. They like the convenience of speedy channel surfing, and simple use of one tuner: The one built into their TV sets. When you go digital, all those tuners in your TV sets and VCRs are useless.

bolmsted · 2002-10-30, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wysiwyg

Many people will never want a digital box even if they are offered for free or paid to get one. They like the convenience of speedy channel surfing, and simple use of one tuner: The one built into their TV sets. When you go digital, all those tuners in your TV sets and VCRs are useless.

yes but if they offer a PVR based cable box then this will not be a problem. the channel surf problems have been fixed in the newer boxes I believe.

shawguy · 2004-01-18, 02:45 AM

One of the main reasons that doing this, changing all the analog channels to digital that would be a big pain to me and many other cable customers is the fact that many people have cable for the sole fact that they can have 2, 3, or 4 outlets and watch all their analog channels on these TVs without additional equipment. As mentioned earlier, even if the company was to provide a STB for each home, what about the other 2-3 TV's per each home, who pays for that, thats why I think ANalog will be around for a long Time, about 10+ years still. Sure its nice to have more channel space to add new networks, improve PQ, etc, but that one fact alone with the multiple TV's is going to hold back transition for a long time!

ryans · 2004-01-18, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shawguy

One of the main reasons that doing this, changing all the analog channels to digital that would be a big pain to me and many other cable customers is the fact that many people have cable for the sole fact that they can have 2, 3, or 4 outlets and watch all their analog channels on these TVs without additional equipment. As mentioned earlier, even if the company was to provide a STB for each home, what about the other 2-3 TV's per each home, who pays for that, thats why I think ANalog will be around for a long Time, about 10+ years still. Sure its nice to have more channel space to add new networks, improve PQ, etc, but that one fact alone with the multiple TV's is going to hold back transition for a long time!

You'd be suprised...I don't think Analogue will be around for 10 more years....it'll be lucky to last 5. I don't know if anyone remembers the "External Converters" of days of yore...they were for customers who's tv's could not go beyond 13...(if anyone remembers the old "remotes", basically, I remember one it had a wire then went to a box and gave us channels all the way up to 39!!)...

If they give them away, then you almost have no choice....its in the cable companys best interest to reclaim all that bandwidth back....if you can put 70 analogue channels in the space of 7 and reclaim 63 6mhz blocks of channels then they're almost crazy not to do it. With HDTV becoming more and more prevalent they will need that bandwidth back to be able to roll out those channels (as you can usually only get 1 or 2 HD channels per 6mhz analogue block, depending on modulation). Rather than going ahead and rebuilding and reupgrading the plant again...which would cost a heck of a lot more....

Or what might happen in a more realistic scenario is that they will probably take the tiered channels off first and just leave the basic cable on analogue for those people who want to leave it there...as ultimately that is what is required under the CRTC regulations.

I could see it happenning...it happenned when people wanted to get above channel 13 on their tvs....it'll happen again...

jay2121a · 2004-01-18, 11:17 AM

There is a very good article in last months Cablecaster mag, if I find it I'll post it.

bolmsted · 2004-01-18, 04:16 PM

This is probably the article in Cable Caster Magazine... did a search and first one that popped up...

Cablecaster, November 2003
Is 100% Digital Cable Imminent, or Not?

PhotoJim · 2004-01-18, 07:25 PM

1. SaskTel here in Saskatchewan has "VDSL" right now. It's been here for the better part of a year. They call it Max.

2. PVR is a practical substitute for VCRs, but until you can buy a PVR box for $70 like you can buy a Hi-Fi VCR, it isn't going to be the best solution for many people. Furthermore, almost all of us already have analog VCRs. I'd love PVR and I will probably adopt it relatively quickly but I won't be retiring my VCRs for many, many years.

jay2121a · 2004-01-18, 07:40 PM

Alot of companies will stop producing VCRs next year, they claim it is because of DVD and PVR's and the fact that less and less people are using them, however it has more to do with pressure from the movie studios who would rather people purchase shows on the DVD format. As far as pricing goes, bell was as low as net $350 this year on their PVR, this is very low when you realize that this technology is only 3 years old, it took VCR's about 8 years to go that low, (expect sub $300 price points either late this year or early next year as more companies introduce PVR/DVR boxes in Canada). One thing people must not do is compare PVR/DVR's to VCR's like the above post, while they both record shows, the PVR/DVR allows for much more freedom in the way you watch TV, it is more a lifestyle change.

View Poll Results: Will we ever see the end of analog cable after the cable rebuilds?
< 2 years	2	5.13%
2-4 years	5	12.82%
4-6 years	7	17.95%
6-8 years	7	17.95%
8-10 years	6	15.38%
10-12 years	4	10.26%
12-14 years	0	0%
15+ years	2	5.13%
Never, you better switch to an alternate provider!	6	15.38%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

2004-01-18, 04:16 PM	#28
bolmsted Veteran Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: York, Ontario Posts: 2,374	This is probably the article in Cable Caster Magazine... did a search and first one that popped up... Cablecaster, November 2003 Is 100% Digital Cable Imminent, or Not? __________________ Toshiba 57HDX82\|Denon AVR4310CI\|PS3\|SA8300HD\|Harmony One\|Paradigm [Monitor 9\|CC290\|DSP3100\|ADP190\|Titans]

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2002-10-23, 02:46 PM	#16
bolmsted Veteran Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: York, Ontario Posts: 2,374	I think of "Moore's Law". Given time, the technology will come down in price as quantities increase.

2002-10-23, 02:56 PM	#17
james99 Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Burlington Posts: 24,791	I thought VDSL was only being used in apartment buildings. Do you have any more info regarding Bell's plans for this technology?

2002-10-23, 03:16 PM	#18
bolmsted Veteran Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: York, Ontario Posts: 2,374	no I don't have any info. my colleague isn't in the office today and probably not tomorrow as he is working with a vendor for an upgrade. I'll ask him the next time he's on site if he has any documentation provided from Bell, etc. He's currently at "Young & Egligible" I believe but will be moving closer to the 401 I believe next year when his condo's done so I don't know if this will be the last he will have it. I thought it would be the same as ADSL deployment, but maybe shorter distances to your local central office. As long as the distance is less than 4K from the CO?

2002-10-29, 12:36 PM	#19
Bassbonist Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 100	I think a transition will take probably about 10 years or longer...I feel that part of the stratgey of the conversion is to make any new channels available as digital only.-- I also believe that we will see the STB replaced some day with a "special card" that is provided by the cable company that is inserted directly into the TV which would be programmed with the channel mapping info etc., which will utilizes once again the tuner built into the TV. (This would reduce costs to the Cableco.) Another thing that encourages more and more people to sign of for digital cable, is that there is more value in it. I will use Pricing in Calagry as an example: The package that includes all of the Analog channels is called "Full Cable service." This includes one outlet with 64 Channels for $42.77/month. For a second outlet, add another $4.75/month..the third is another $1.25.month and a fourth outlet is free. With the purchase if a STB, you can sign up for the "Premiere Entertainment Package" which is 43.95/month that includes up to 3 extra outlets with analog cable, (total 4 outlets) and 161 channels. (Breaks down to 64 analog channels, 7 digital TV networks, 40 digital music channels, and 50 Pay-perview Channels.)

2002-10-29, 02:06 PM	#21
travisc Veteran Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Uxbridge, ON Posts: 3,588	Penetration of digital will never get to 80-90% until the transition is forced, IMO.

2002-10-30, 06:32 PM	#23
wysiwyg Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto - Davisville Subway Posts: 908	Many people will never want a digital box even if they are offered for free or paid to get one. They like the convenience of speedy channel surfing, and simple use of one tuner: The one built into their TV sets. When you go digital, all those tuners in your TV sets and VCRs are useless.

2004-01-18, 02:45 AM	#25
shawguy Premium Supporter Join Date: May 2003 Location: Winnipeg with Shaw HD, BB20, and Phone. Posts: 3,227	One of the main reasons that doing this, changing all the analog channels to digital that would be a big pain to me and many other cable customers is the fact that many people have cable for the sole fact that they can have 2, 3, or 4 outlets and watch all their analog channels on these TVs without additional equipment. As mentioned earlier, even if the company was to provide a STB for each home, what about the other 2-3 TV's per each home, who pays for that, thats why I think ANalog will be around for a long Time, about 10+ years still. Sure its nice to have more channel space to add new networks, improve PQ, etc, but that one fact alone with the multiple TV's is going to hold back transition for a long time!

2004-01-18, 11:17 AM	#27
jay2121a Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 569	There is a very good article in last months Cablecaster mag, if I find it I'll post it.

2004-01-18, 07:25 PM	#29
PhotoJim Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Regina, SK, CA Posts: 618	1. SaskTel here in Saskatchewan has "VDSL" right now. It's been here for the better part of a year. They call it Max. 2. PVR is a practical substitute for VCRs, but until you can buy a PVR box for $70 like you can buy a Hi-Fi VCR, it isn't going to be the best solution for many people. Furthermore, almost all of us already have analog VCRs. I'd love PVR and I will probably adopt it relatively quickly but I won't be retiring my VCRs for many, many years.

2004-01-18, 07:40 PM	#30
jay2121a Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 569	Alot of companies will stop producing VCRs next year, they claim it is because of DVD and PVR's and the fact that less and less people are using them, however it has more to do with pressure from the movie studios who would rather people purchase shows on the DVD format. As far as pricing goes, bell was as low as net $350 this year on their PVR, this is very low when you realize that this technology is only 3 years old, it took VCR's about 8 years to go that low, (expect sub $300 price points either late this year or early next year as more companies introduce PVR/DVR boxes in Canada). One thing people must not do is compare PVR/DVR's to VCR's like the above post, while they both record shows, the PVR/DVR allows for much more freedom in the way you watch TV, it is more a lifestyle change.