Cable TV - Better Picture - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

Donnie Brasco · 2002-10-20, 09:43 PM

Being new to HDTV (Toshiba H5082) I saw quickly that the increased definition has definitely increased the amount of noise, etc. when viewing cable TV.

As cable is my only source of local TV I'd like to hear of any experiences anybody has with improving the cable signal. Radio Shack parts or home-made, really doesn't matter as long as it's worth doing.

Thanks

hugh · 2002-10-20, 11:46 PM

Do you mean analog cable? If your getting poor quality reception, the first call should be to your cable company.

Failing that, have you tried Digital Cable. Generally speaking the bulk of people feel that Digital Cable is a step up from analog cable in terms of picture quality.

Since you're in Toronto, you should be investigating HDTV.

Donnie Brasco · 2002-10-21, 12:41 AM

Thanks Human. What i'm really after is cleaning up the analog Rogers cable. I've already got satellite, however no locals on it.

I know the potential of cable is pretty good, I mean Global (my Rogers channel 3) looks as good as satellite. However some other channels could use a boost. So that's what I'm after. I am confident the cabling up to and into the house is pretty good.

I'd like to know if anyone has played with boosters, line-conditioners, regulators/reference injectors, etc.

I've notced Toshiba's cable noise filter does a good job. If I can add to it I would be quite pleased.

57 · 2002-10-21, 09:05 AM

I don't see why you would want to spend your time/money to improve a signal that should be good from Rogers. Do you feel it's a waste of time contacting them?

Joxer · 2002-10-21, 09:59 AM

Well, duh!

Been there, done that. One guy boosts strength, another guy drops it as it makes the picture too grainy, and basically only a handful of channels ever look remotely good. One thing I do notice is that the new Toshiba is actually much better at hiding the noise than my 10 year old Panasonic 27" tv was, but its still there. Not to say that satellite is always great, mpeg artifacts due to the compression, sometimes they start with a poor signal, etc., and I've found that hockey actually looks better on cable (TSN picture quality isn't too bad, and mpeg-isms make satellite bad). My bried exposure to digital cable showed a poorer quality digital signal and slow redraw times. I may think about it again just for HDTV - anything less than that or DVD does have limitations.

Donnie Brasco · 2002-10-21, 04:50 PM

I too noticed (last nights Carolina football game) that some cable channels look better than the same show on satellite. As impressed as I was with Global-TV on cable, I thought I could get it even better.

I did notice the new feature on the Toshiba "Cable Clear DNR" helps a lot. But can it get better? I think so.

I borrowed a 75ohm reference injector (active) and hooked it up. To my surprise, Global-TV was NO better. However, other channels that were previously a little grainy or had weird lines down the screen had improved drastically. This is what I was after. I simply wanted to clean up the picture or at least make all the channels look similar in quality. I hate going from channel to channel and seeing completely different qualities. That is what I like about the satellite, consistancy in appearance.

Still open to suggestions. Thanks folks.

digitalcable · 2002-10-21, 09:58 PM

I"m not sure who your cable provider is, but why not have them come out and do a signal strength check on the analog channels from ch-2 up, and have them perform a Carrier-to-Noise check. If it reads between 46db to 50db range then thats as good as it gets. If the readings are below 46 or around 40 then your analog signal does indeed have excessive noise in it. Some Tv's actually show a noisier picture due to poor quality tuners and this is not the fault of the cable signal itself. Also to minimize the noise try to set your picture controls all into the middle, especially the Contrast. If its too high, the picture will look like crap. Also, avoid Rat Shack cable amplifiers like the plague, as they add excessive noise to the picture. If you need an amplifier, your cable company should be able to provide you with a top quality one.

joey90210 · 2002-10-22, 12:07 PM

After I got my new Toshiba Widescreen about a month ago I wasn't exactly happy with my analog cable reception. The cable signal when it was on my 27" TV seemed strong, but on the RPTV the reception was just a little weak, grainy and soft. I intended to call the cable company and have them check the signal, but I got playing instead, for me just playing with the cabling to/from the TV seemed to make a nice difference, I basically just scrapped the 10' piece of R59 cable for RG6. That seemed ok for a few days but it still wasn't quite enough. Then I was at Radio Shack, so I just thought I would check out inline ampifiers. They had quite a few and I just picked up a 10dB amp for $20 to see if it would make any differrence. I still had full intentions of making the cable company improve the signal but the amp make a big difference for me.

My cable is also split to three TV's, and some channels can very, but the amp has really improved the channels that I mainly watch (TSN, SNET, SPEED, FOX) basically sports.

bolmsted · 2002-10-23, 01:08 AM

I just jumped around the dial with the diagnostic screen on the SA3200 displaying while flipping channels and I see the following:

Analog Channels
FDC Level: Lower channels around -8dBmV on average, went to -10dbmV or -11dbmV on some of the channels as it got higher (TSN on 26, etc) and when it turned to -11dbmV it would turn orange
FDC S/N: ranged from 19db to 27/28db on the channels averaging around 25/26db for 95% of the channels

Digital Channels
QAM Level: -7/-8 no change from that
QAM S/N: 35/36db depending on channel, no fluctation from that

Is this normal? Should I be seeing higher S/N for the analog channels or is the digital box not good at measuring this (rather than the digital channels). Also, what can I do about the fluctating signal level down to the -11dBmV (orange) on some of the channels. What about the digital channels?

I have a 3 way splitter just before the TV that I could remove, but I didn't notice any picture changes with it in place. I placed the splitter (1 to cable box, 1 to HDTV directly and 1 to the old TV) inline so I could watch some analog shows on the old TV and for testing. The values above were taken with that splitter in place. I can check again tomorrow nite to see if removing the splitter changes some of those values if someone can explain them.

On a side note...I don't know if this is normal on the Toshiba, but I'll take it that this is TV doing this as part of its processing, not the cable box / VCR. Has anyone else noticed this?

1) I also noticed that the if the brightness of the scene changes in the IPG window it changes this in the on screen graphics.
2) Also, if I have PIP/POP feature enabled and flip channels, the brightness will determine overall picture and it stabilizes once both stations are tuned. I think only the "main" tuner does this, not the PIP tuner asa the "main" tuner blanks the screen during channel flips / PIP swaps.
3) Also, if I flip channels say to "TV Guide" (ch5) that has a bit of noise sometimes the squigliness in the cable will actually feed up to diagnostic screen and the graphics will squigle as well (perhaps TV doing this).
(4) I noticed also if I fast forward a video tape while I have PIP/POP screen open it affects the whole screen, not the PIP/POP window that has the VCR in it.

JohnnyG · 2002-10-23, 01:40 PM

If I'm not mistaken, FDC is "Forward Data Channel" and it's always on the same frequency, regardless of what video channel you're tuned to. The fluctuations you're seeing are normal. Orange is just an indicator of a mid-level reading - you've got plenty of 'headroom' there.

Your QAM levels are just fine - quite strong actually, considering the 3-way splitter. If your landlord shares the same cable entering the building, then it's border-line astonishing!

2002-10-20, 09:43 PM	#1
Donnie Brasco Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Toronto Posts: 146	Cable TV - Better Picture Being new to HDTV (Toshiba H5082) I saw quickly that the increased definition has definitely increased the amount of noise, etc. when viewing cable TV. As cable is my only source of local TV I'd like to hear of any experiences anybody has with improving the cable signal. Radio Shack parts or home-made, really doesn't matter as long as it's worth doing. Thanks __________________ Toshiba W/S HDTV - DirecTV - Samsung Pro-DVD - Kenwood THX/U - Athena & Dahlquist 6.1

2002-10-21, 12:41 AM	#3
Donnie Brasco Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Toronto Posts: 146	Thanks Human. What i'm really after is cleaning up the analog Rogers cable. I've already got satellite, however no locals on it. I know the potential of cable is pretty good, I mean Global (my Rogers channel 3) looks as good as satellite. However some other channels could use a boost. So that's what I'm after. I am confident the cabling up to and into the house is pretty good. I'd like to know if anyone has played with boosters, line-conditioners, regulators/reference injectors, etc. I've notced Toshiba's cable noise filter does a good job. If I can add to it I would be quite pleased. __________________ Toshiba W/S HDTV - DirecTV - Samsung Pro-DVD - Kenwood THX/U - Athena & Dahlquist 6.1

2002-10-21, 09:05 AM	#4
57 Moderator Join Date: May 2002 Location: Toronto, Rogers, 8300HD, eHDD, Panasonic TCP65S1, Denon AVR4310Ci; 8300HD, eHDD & Sony KDL40W3000 Posts: 50,301	I don't see why you would want to spend your time/money to improve a signal that should be good from Rogers. Do you feel it's a waste of time contacting them? __________________ 57's Home Theatre (Latest equipment & photos) 57's Optimization Services (Home Theatre Optimization)

2002-10-21, 04:50 PM	#6
Donnie Brasco Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Toronto Posts: 146	I too noticed (last nights Carolina football game) that some cable channels look better than the same show on satellite. As impressed as I was with Global-TV on cable, I thought I could get it even better. I did notice the new feature on the Toshiba "Cable Clear DNR" helps a lot. But can it get better? I think so. I borrowed a 75ohm reference injector (active) and hooked it up. To my surprise, Global-TV was NO better. However, other channels that were previously a little grainy or had weird lines down the screen had improved drastically. This is what I was after. I simply wanted to clean up the picture or at least make all the channels look similar in quality. I hate going from channel to channel and seeing completely different qualities. That is what I like about the satellite, consistancy in appearance. Still open to suggestions. Thanks folks. __________________ Toshiba W/S HDTV - DirecTV - Samsung Pro-DVD - Kenwood THX/U - Athena & Dahlquist 6.1

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2002-10-20, 11:46 PM	#2
hugh Member #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 47,492	Do you mean analog cable? If your getting poor quality reception, the first call should be to your cable company. Failing that, have you tried Digital Cable. Generally speaking the bulk of people feel that Digital Cable is a step up from analog cable in terms of picture quality. Since you're in Toronto, you should be investigating HDTV.

2002-10-21, 09:59 AM	#5
Joxer Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Etobicoke Posts: 1,064	Well, duh! Been there, done that. One guy boosts strength, another guy drops it as it makes the picture too grainy, and basically only a handful of channels ever look remotely good. One thing I do notice is that the new Toshiba is actually much better at hiding the noise than my 10 year old Panasonic 27" tv was, but its still there. Not to say that satellite is always great, mpeg artifacts due to the compression, sometimes they start with a poor signal, etc., and I've found that hockey actually looks better on cable (TSN picture quality isn't too bad, and mpeg-isms make satellite bad). My bried exposure to digital cable showed a poorer quality digital signal and slow redraw times. I may think about it again just for HDTV - anything less than that or DVD does have limitations.

2002-10-21, 09:58 PM	#7
digitalcable Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 499	I"m not sure who your cable provider is, but why not have them come out and do a signal strength check on the analog channels from ch-2 up, and have them perform a Carrier-to-Noise check. If it reads between 46db to 50db range then thats as good as it gets. If the readings are below 46 or around 40 then your analog signal does indeed have excessive noise in it. Some Tv's actually show a noisier picture due to poor quality tuners and this is not the fault of the cable signal itself. Also to minimize the noise try to set your picture controls all into the middle, especially the Contrast. If its too high, the picture will look like crap. Also, avoid Rat Shack cable amplifiers like the plague, as they add excessive noise to the picture. If you need an amplifier, your cable company should be able to provide you with a top quality one.

2002-10-22, 12:07 PM	#8
joey90210 Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Posts: 103	After I got my new Toshiba Widescreen about a month ago I wasn't exactly happy with my analog cable reception. The cable signal when it was on my 27" TV seemed strong, but on the RPTV the reception was just a little weak, grainy and soft. I intended to call the cable company and have them check the signal, but I got playing instead, for me just playing with the cabling to/from the TV seemed to make a nice difference, I basically just scrapped the 10' piece of R59 cable for RG6. That seemed ok for a few days but it still wasn't quite enough. Then I was at Radio Shack, so I just thought I would check out inline ampifiers. They had quite a few and I just picked up a 10dB amp for $20 to see if it would make any differrence. I still had full intentions of making the cable company improve the signal but the amp make a big difference for me. My cable is also split to three TV's, and some channels can very, but the amp has really improved the channels that I mainly watch (TSN, SNET, SPEED, FOX) basically sports.

2002-10-23, 01:08 AM	#9
bolmsted Veteran Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: York, Ontario Posts: 2,374	I just jumped around the dial with the diagnostic screen on the SA3200 displaying while flipping channels and I see the following: Analog Channels FDC Level: Lower channels around -8dBmV on average, went to -10dbmV or -11dbmV on some of the channels as it got higher (TSN on 26, etc) and when it turned to -11dbmV it would turn orange FDC S/N: ranged from 19db to 27/28db on the channels averaging around 25/26db for 95% of the channels Digital Channels QAM Level: -7/-8 no change from that QAM S/N: 35/36db depending on channel, no fluctation from that Is this normal? Should I be seeing higher S/N for the analog channels or is the digital box not good at measuring this (rather than the digital channels). Also, what can I do about the fluctating signal level down to the -11dBmV (orange) on some of the channels. What about the digital channels? I have a 3 way splitter just before the TV that I could remove, but I didn't notice any picture changes with it in place. I placed the splitter (1 to cable box, 1 to HDTV directly and 1 to the old TV) inline so I could watch some analog shows on the old TV and for testing. The values above were taken with that splitter in place. I can check again tomorrow nite to see if removing the splitter changes some of those values if someone can explain them. On a side note...I don't know if this is normal on the Toshiba, but I'll take it that this is TV doing this as part of its processing, not the cable box / VCR. Has anyone else noticed this? 1) I also noticed that the if the brightness of the scene changes in the IPG window it changes this in the on screen graphics. 2) Also, if I have PIP/POP feature enabled and flip channels, the brightness will determine overall picture and it stabilizes once both stations are tuned. I think only the "main" tuner does this, not the PIP tuner asa the "main" tuner blanks the screen during channel flips / PIP swaps. 3) Also, if I flip channels say to "TV Guide" (ch5) that has a bit of noise sometimes the squigliness in the cable will actually feed up to diagnostic screen and the graphics will squigle as well (perhaps TV doing this). (4) I noticed also if I fast forward a video tape while I have PIP/POP screen open it affects the whole screen, not the PIP/POP window that has the VCR in it.

2002-10-23, 01:40 PM	#10
JohnnyG Veteran Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: North York, Ontario Posts: 10,407	If I'm not mistaken, FDC is "Forward Data Channel" and it's always on the same frequency, regardless of what video channel you're tuned to. The fluctuations you're seeing are normal. Orange is just an indicator of a mid-level reading - you've got plenty of 'headroom' there. Your QAM levels are just fine - quite strong actually, considering the 3-way splitter. If your landlord shares the same cable entering the building, then it's border-line astonishing!