Closed caption function on 6412

[magnet]

Does your tv have to have closed captioning in order for you to see closed captioning from a 6412 or do I just not have the settings correct?

[57]

The TV doesn't need to. The STB does it if you ask it to and if the programme has CC and if you have the firmware to do it. See the following thread for additional discussions...

http://digitalhomecanada.com/forum/s...sed+caption%2A

[Nighthawk 1]

The STB does it if you ask it to...

Okay, so how do you go about asking it to? I looked at the other thread and although it brings up questions, it doesn't answer anything.

[57]

The other thread indicated that people were getting CC at least part of the time. I would assume therefore that there is a menu item that invokes CC, or a CC button. I looked at the following link, but didn't see anything about CC, sorry. Perhaps someone else can tell you the correct key strokes.

http://digitalhomecanada.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=21274

[technut]

To modify the CC settings you leave the TV on but turn the 6412 off and immediately press the MENU button. That will take you to a setup screen where you can turn CC on.

[57]

Thanks technut - that seems like a really user-unfriendly approach. On the SA STBs you just hit "settings" scroll to CC and select on/off/on with mute (3250HD, but SA8300HD only has on/off).

Sometimes if I miss something important I'll invoke CC, back up the recording and see what was said, and undo CC again.

Of course a CC button would be better still, but I guess we have enough buttons already

[Nighthawk 1]

I've seen the menu selection regarding "cc on upon mute". What I am after I guess is a way to program the cc button (is that what you were getting at Technut)? Sometimes I wish to have the volume turned down (but not muted) but able to see the words in case I miss something.

[JDM]

Just got my 6412. Need captions on for my wife, one of the people for whom captions were invented. Found the 6412 menu (turning STB off, hitting menu, per this forum). Enabled Captions via the 6412 menu, but nothing happened. No captions on any channel, even known captioned material. Started with all default captioning parameters to no avail. Verified that the STB retained the "captions enabled" status when turned off. Tried all the options for analog channels. Still nothing.
Setup is an old Sony XBR set with no captioning capability in the TV itself. Connected to 6412 on Composite (this TV has no component or S-video inputs). Am I missing some magic incantation ? Some hidden function on the remote ?
Comcast has not been able to help as yet although they are trying. Most of their customers want captions turned off, and that is easily accomplished via the STB menu.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. Will have to return the box if I can't get this working.

[technut]

JDM, on that same screen where you turn the captions on, at the top there is a setting for the output resolution. This is just a guess, but I suspect that needs to be set to 480i in order to get captions on the composite output.

It seems the 6412 will only generate graphics at the resolution you set and although other outputs will still be active they won't get the graphics. I'm assuming the same is true of any CC graphics.

[meshmellow]

Originally Posted by technut

It seems the 6412 will only generate graphics at the resolution you set and although other outputs will still be active they won't get the graphics. I'm assuming the same is true of any CC graphics.

I must investigate this. I'm one who relies quite heavily on closed captions. I've turned the feature on with the DCT6412. This gives me captions on the high definition channels - although not many programs have the captions.

However, I'm pretty sure the captions I'm getting on the non high def channels are there only because I turned it on in the settings for my Toshiba TV.

I believe my box is set to 480i.

mesh

[technut]

I haven't played with this myself, so I'm just working on a theory. But if I'm right then none of the graphics would work. So not only would the CC not work, he should also not be able to pull up the guide or menus either. And with the right settings then hopefully he'll get them all working at once.

[JDM]

I have 480I selected in the STB menu ... most other settings don't work with this TV. The other one that does work is setting Component to 1080, which enables the 4:3 override setting at 480I. But in either case, no captions. Most of my experiments have been on analog channels, where our viewing is concentrated, but a brief foray into non-HD digital channels produced the same result - no captions. Have done nothing with HD channels because it wouldn't do me much good.

Have never had any problem with the guide or with menus - so the STB is overlaying graphics normally.

Would be really useful to know if anyone has captions working on analog channels with the 6412 - with TV-native captions turned off of course. If I recall correctly, the people who wanted captions turned off where talking HD channels, probably with HD TVs connected on the component video outputs.

[meshmellow]

Originally Posted by JDM

Would be really useful to know if anyone has captions working on analog channels with the 6412 - with TV-native captions turned off of course.

I have captions turned on in the settings for the 6412. However, it ONLY gives me captions on high def channels (when they have them). For ALL other channels, I need to turn on the caption feature on the TV itself. I just leave both sets of captions turned on, since they don't both try to operate on the same channels.

I could be wrong, because I didn't experiment a lot. I came to the conclusion that the 6412 would not provide captions on standard definition channels. It might pay to experiment with an S-video connection, since I find my TV captions don't work unless I view recordings made on my Pioneer DVD/hard drive recorder through the S-video connection, rather than the component cables.

With the high def channel captions from the box itself, you can adjust the size, colour, transparency, etc. making them very unobtrusive. Those captions are far superior to the ones on the non high def channels generated by the TV tuner (large, with white text on a black background).

meshmellow

[JDM]

Comcast called yesterday with a message, and I'll quote ... "If using the component outputs, and the YPbPr Output is set to 480I or 4:3 Override is set to 480I, you will get no captions from the box on analog or digital channels. If using any other settings or other wires, captions should work." I have YPbPr Output set to 480I, 4:3 Override is Off, but I'm using composite outputs, not component outputs. So, if I take the statement literally, it does not quite apply to my config, and may or may not apply to meshmellow's case.

Comcast is making a house call tommorrow on the theory that my box is broke ... we'll see. My theory is that the 6412 has a brain-dead implementation of the CC feature, perhaps only useful on HD channels, and probably not useful with old TVs with no CC decoder ... although you have to wonder what the Analog CC1, CC2, etc settings in the STB menu are all about.

Out of curiosity, is a Composite video signal essentially the same as its RF parent minus other channels, modulation, and sound ? i.e. is the CC info likely to still be there or not ? I would hope so for TVs that support CC natively.

With my previous STB, I had a standalone captioning box connected between the RF output of the STB and the AUX RF input on the TV. STB composite outputs were connected to Video 1 inputs. Selected Video 1 for no captions, Selected Aux for captions. Wella. Worked great. Unfortunatley, Motorola does not provide an RF output on the 6412. Will probably have to cobble together something similar, go back to the original solution without the DVR, or buy a new TV. Bummer.

[meshmellow]

Originally Posted by JDM

My theory is that the 6412 has a brain-dead implementation of the CC feature, perhaps only useful on HD channels, and probably not useful with old TVs with no CC decoder ... although you have to wonder what the Analog CC1, CC2, etc settings in the STB menu are all about.

I think you're probably right. I find the whole thing very confusing and I'm glad my new TV has the caption decoder built in.

Here's my settings:
TV Type 16:9
YPbPr Output: 1080I
4:3 Override: 480I
Closed Caption: Enabled
Analog: CC1
Digital: Primary Language

I am using component cables (most of the time). I generally leave CC1 turned on in my TV settings. I've just done some verifying. If I turn off the TV captions, I get no captions on non high def channels (analog or digital). I do get "customized" captions on the high def channels.

If I turn on the TV captions, they come back for all channels. They are the standard black on white for all but the high def channels, where I get my customized ones instead. (It makes no difference if the TV ones are turned on or not when I go to a high def channel. The customized ones override the TV version.)

I experimented using the S-Video connection instead. Everything was the same, except that when I tuned to a high def channel, I got the standard black on white captions and not my customized ones! They appear to be created by the TV rather than the box. If I turned them off in the TV settings, they were gone on the high def channels.

Probably it's the same with a composite connection, and that's why you aren't getting anything.

It will be interesting to learn the results from your technician's visit.

meshmellow