50VS810 or 50V710

[EZirl]

Ok, I’ve researched and researched. I’ve checked forum after forum, and I read every review I can find (very few) and I still can’t decide which one to get. Is the VS810 worth the extra $900 bones? I know there have been a lot of problems reported with the 50V500. Are these sets any better? HELP!!!!!!

[mike infinity]

Originally Posted by EZirl

I know there have been a lot of problems reported with the 50V500. Are these sets any better?

They are supposed to have a better lens system and better contrast, but I believe its just marketing. I would say the lens system could add very little contrast, which mostly comes from the other optics.

The 50V500 is simply excellent, BTW. I suspect that either the 50v710 or the 50vs810 would be similar. But be careful...I tried the 42v515 and it was plauged with problems (despite the 'upgraded' light engine).

I suggest you try one out and return it if you if you have QC issues. If hitachi doesn't work for you then check out the sony...I would say its the only other rplcd that even comes close to hitachi for picture quality.

Cheers,

Mike Flynn

[Evan]

I had the VS810 delivered last night.

Originally had a Toshiba DLP (52HMX84) that was unwatchable for my wife (rainbow effect - did not see it in the store - could not avoid seeing it every 10 seconds at home).

So far, I really like the picture on the Hitachi. Black levels are not amazing but appear to be on par with the Toshiba (which had the HD2+ chip with improved contrast levels). In the store, the picture on the 810 looked much nicer than the 500, but that may have just been set up.

Good luck with your decision.

[EZirl]

Thanks guys! I'm still at a loss for what to get. Its hard to believe that the Hitachi sets are having so many problems. I guess I'll keep searching for the perfect set

[casscarr2002]

I have the 50vs810 and am returning my 3rd set. First 2 returns were stuck green pixels but the third one has some serious panel manufactured problems or something. The picture on the first 2 were definatly (minus the stuck pixels) worth the extra $$ over the v500. LCD RPTV's even at this point after most companies have released a new model recently are hard pressed to find a perfect one.
I would not hesitate to recommend the VS810, if you're willing to accept you may need a few to get the best one. But once this VS810 is in your living room you won't be disappointed.

[mike infinity]

Originally Posted by casscarr2002

The picture on the first 2 were definatly (minus the stuck pixels) worth the extra $$ over the v500.

Now that I've seen one, I have to disagree. In fact, to my eye the vs810 does nothing better than the v500 interms of PQ, and a few things worse.

With strong abient light reflections, not as good OOB colour, and increased VB I would say that not only is the vs810 not worth the extra money, it has several issues that lead to inferior performance. Granted, ergonomics are better and it has better connectivity, but these are minor quibbles compared to PQ.

Cheers,

Mike Flynn

[mike infinity]

Originally Posted by Evan

In the store, the picture on the 810 looked much nicer than the 500, but that may have just been set up.

At the BB in buffalo, the colour on the 500A was set to 93%, brightness to 80%...colour temp was set to 'high'', etc. In short, PQ looked awful.

I set the colour controls on both sets to reasonable settings (comparable to my settings at home). The 500A was noticably better in several areas, and worse in none.

Cheers,

Mike Flynn

[Evan]

Originally Posted by mike infinity

Now that I've seen one, I have to disagree. In fact, to my eye the vs810 does nothing better than the v500 interms of PQ, and a few things worse.

With significantly higher end internals (the 810 has a newer light engine featuring a 25-element lens) , I am reasonably comfortable that a properly calibrated 810 would outperform a properly calibrated 500. However, to Mike's point, if the set is to be located in a bright room the reflectivity of the 810 screen could be distracting. (My set is in a room where light is pretty easily controlled so it is not a problem for me. For reference, I found the screen on the 810 to be about as reflective as the screen on my 32" crt tube.)

Also keep in mind that the 810 has a number of additional features that make it more expensive including the addition of an HDTV tuner and cable-card capability.

I read a decent review on the 810 today at the following link:
https://www.avguide.com/AVG_monthly/issue11_hispeed.pdf

Good luck. I don't think you will go wrong with either of these sets.

[mike infinity]

Originally Posted by Evan

With significantly higher end internals (the 810 has a newer light engine featuring a 25-element lens) , I am reasonably comfortable that a properly calibrated 810 would outperform a properly calibrated 500.

Well, sometimes you have to watch out for some of those smoke and mirrors marketing strategies...."1080p" processing comes to mind (another one from hitachi).

I see vitually no colour distortion, CA, vignetting, or softness at edges on the v500 (unlike some pannys and others). And the contrast ratio specifications and test results do not indicate any significant improvement (if any) from the vs810 to the v500 series. In a nutshell, that 25 element lens seems to add nothing at all in terms of PQ (at least nothing anyone can detect). Sounds good on paper, thats about it.

I suspect the bulk of the rest of the internals are virtually identical to the 500a. Its not an uncommon practice for a manufacturer to make relatively minor tweaks (mostly cosmetic) and label it a 'higher end' unit.

The reviews of the 500A and vs810 on CNET corroborate what I have said. But my own eyes tell the only tale that matters to me. As far as calibration goes, both sets should have similar OOB performance (since they have the same colour decoder). Other criticisms aside, paying more money should not mean worse OOB colour decoding. And I was very dissappointed to see vertical banding more prevalent on the vs810.

BTW, the 42v515 gets the same light engine as the vs810. And that unit is wrought with problems.

Also keep in mind that the 810 has a number of additional features that make it more expensive including the addition of an HDTV tuner and cable-card capability.

Both of which are totally irrelevant to most cable/sat subscribers who must acquire a proprietary STB in order to decode any HDTV signal anyway.

Heck, even if they threw in a tivo it wouldn't be much good if your service provider won't support it.

Good luck. I don't think you will go wrong with either of these sets.

I agree. But I would get a good look at both before dropping an extra $700-1000 on the 'high end' unit.

Cheers,

Mike Flynn

[kickstart]

BTW, the 42v515 gets the same light engine as the vs810. And that unit is wrought with problems.

According to Hitachi's specs the 42V515 light engine looks virtually the same as the 50V500 with an 11 element lens. Which is what you'd expect since they are very similar in other areas (remote, menus, case design).

At any rate, as Mike demonstrated in his tweaks for the V500, vertical banding can be adjusted for. I never had the guts to try it with my 42V515. Maybe the 810 can be fixed in the service menu as well.

I've researched the VS810 a lot and nobody's ever complained about VB before. They've complained about everything else, but not VB. So maybe it's an isolated incident.

How different the 810's light engine is unknown. But it certainly is not just labelling since it is more compact, hence the missing 4 inches below the screen.

[mike infinity]

Originally Posted by kickstart

How different the 810's light engine is unknown. But it certainly is not just labelling since it is more compact, hence the missing 4 inches below the screen.

I'm not saying it isn't different. I'm saying it doesn't appear to make any discernable (or even measurable) improvements in the bottom line: picture quality.

In theory, a better lens system can provide some improvements in contrast using anti-reflective elements, etc. They can also reduce lens aberrations (that cause colour fringing in areas of high contrast) and improve sharpness and vignetting.

First: the Hitachi v500a has identical spec for contrast ratio. To my eye, it seems that the v500a is brighter, has better off-axis viewing, and seems to even have better contrast. I suspect all three of these issues can be blamed on the protective screen cover that reflects quite a bit of ambient light.

Look at the hitachi marketing. Notice that they do not claim any specific improvement in contrast. Rather, they claim only a 'high contrast lens' system. Quoting the specs would defeat the marketing strategy (which is to make customers believe that PQ is somehow improved in terms of contrast, etc...which is no doubt why the words 'high contrast' are used in reference to the lens).

Second: the v500a doesn't have any issues with lens aberrations or lack of sharpness. In fact, it is tack sharp with no need for any edge enhancement whatsoever (which is a big plus IMO). Try turning off the edge enhancement (or digital sharpening) on the sony GW and you'll get some idea of just how good the hitachi is for sharpness. Remember that edge enhancement ultimately reduces PQ by destroying fine detail and introducing other artifacts. So the vs810 lens system has no room to improve over the already excellent performance of the v500 lens.

The bottom line is whatever the new lens does, it doesn't change picture quality. Sure, it might be smaller, and allow a smaller form factor. But its not much smaller. Had the v500a been all black and they altered the cosmetic appearance of the bevelled edges, no one would care that the vs810 4" smaller.

And with poorer performance in bright rooms, viewing angle, and OOB colour we've got a high end line with nothing to offer save 4" of vertical space, a black box, and a HDTV OTA tuner that is completely redundant to anyone who must use a STB to decode hdtv.

Thats just a no brainer IMO. You get no significant improvements where it really counts, and to make things worse you've got to deal with that annoying reflective screen cover which seriously reduces PQ in any room that isn't dark.

Cheers,

Mike

[mike infinity]

Originally Posted by kickstart

At any rate, as Mike demonstrated in his tweaks for the V500, vertical banding can be adjusted for. I never had the guts to try it with my 42V515. Maybe the 810 can be fixed in the service menu as well.

I tried it on the v515...got very little improvement for some reason. There are differences in the system with the v515 that made the tweak perform differently. I got some improvement in VB (very little)...but I also got an increase in video noise, and the colour was off as well.

Of course, my v515 was defective...and had very poor colour (which could not be adjusted).

Whatever the case, the 515 is supposed to have an improved light engine over the v500 as well.

Cheers,

Mike Flynn

[EZirl]

Ok. I finally got the opportunity to see the 50VS810 and the 50V710 side-by-side. I have to say the 810 is a beautiful set to say the least. But, after sitting and watching them both (each playing Finding Nemo) the 710 seemed to have better picture quality. Being so close to Christmas the store was crowded so I didn’t have a chance to check the settings on each. Both sets have a built-in tuner and cable card slot. The 810 has 2 HDMI inputs while the 710 has only one. From what I’ve seen form my first look… I can’t see spending the extra $900 for the 810. As soon everything settles down I’m going to go back for a more thorough look. I’ll keep you guys posted.

[lpersaud]

I agree with casscarr2002 the 50vs800 is very impressive. However, I also just found some defects on the screen after watching it for 2 hours.

I must say I am very disappointed but still impressed with this TV.

Leslie

[Evan]

I've had my 50VS810 for two weeks and have not experienced any problems (knock on wood).

I just got my HD programming up and running tonight. Picture is awesome. I am very happy with the Hitachi.