CBLT CBC Toronto OTA Stuttering, Pixellation - May/June 2012

[ota_canuck]

I said:

"I agree that it is unacceptable for CBC to ignore these ongoing OTA issues"

,... maybe a poor phrasing of words on my part.

Let me rephrase my intended meaning:

I agree that it would be unacceptable for CBC to ignore these ongoing OTA issues

Members on this forum are not slamming CBC, but rather we are just as interested as you are to find out what has happened to create these fluttering issues on Toronto's CBC broadcasts.

A big question is beginning to lurk upon the horizon:,..
Is it a CBC problem or is the ASTC encoding/decoding standard protocol flawed?

_________________________

Marc,

- An ATSC TV that cannot function in all valid modes is defective.

- What does the manufacturer have to say?

I'm sure there would be no allowable acceptance level for tuners to have been knowingly allowed on the market in North America that were not fully ATSC compliant.

In general consensus,.. We agree Marc,.. it's becoming apparent that not all tuners are created equal. That's what we've been saying here,.. but all ATSC compliant tuners had no problems receiving a good CBC signal until something at CBC Toronto changed recently that seems to have rendered some tuners useless for receiving CBC without the flutter problems. I'd doubt that the tuners have changed with age or that certain tuners would have suddenly become non-compliant only with CBC's present level of ATSC compliance. And I'd doubt that so many set-top and/or built in tuners would have been designed to be non-compliant to the ATSC protocols.

If CBC is sending an ATSC compliant signal and suddenly some ATSC compliant tuners just suddenly don't work well for CBCs ATSC compliant signal, then maybe the broadcaster's end of what is considered ATSC compliant signal somehow has more tools in the toolbox than an ATSC compliant tuner is designed to deal with.

It seems that possibly the ATSC's standard has some flaws in a common understanding of what compliance is. Maybe the ATSC [committee] needs to step back to the planning table and have a second go at making the tool-box of television standards equal at both the broadcasting end and the receiving end.

[HWP]

Hi Marc,

Thanks for responding.

I didn't think you were ignoring anything. I was nervous that since we are now posting in the Toronto Station thread instead of the CBC Network thread, that you might not be noticing our posts.

[frisbeepilot]

I've posted about this a couple of times on the Toronto indoor antenna reception thread -- the consensus was that I was the victim of multipath interference from a new condo tower downtown -- but reading this thread has been very illuminating.

I live on Bayview south of Davisville, facing west (Mt Pleasant cemetery), third/top floor apartment. I have an LG 32" TV which is a couple of years old, and a Terk HDTVa antenna. Only in the past few months, CBC has become very blocky/choppy -- at times the signal cuts out entirely. TVO, which broadcasts on a very similar frequency at a very similar power, is fine.

What I noticed was that, at times when there's a lot of white on the screen (e.g. during a hockey game), the picture is extremely stuttery, although the audio carries on normally. When there's more darkness on the screen, the effect is still there but is markedly less drastic.

(For the record, I'm not one of those people who never watches CBC but only complains about it on here! I watch a lot of CBC, and listen to R1 and R2 almost every day. All Hail the Mothership!)

I'm sorta relieved to see I wasn't alone in having this problem, to be honest.

[westendhitch]

I just want to add in that I am having the same pixlation/stutter problems with CBC and TVO in the west end of toronto as others have noted.

the problem started some time in the last two months. my main hdtv is a 46" dynex, bought new in January 2012. it was flawless for the first few months. the problems started somewhere before tax time. my alternate tv is a baby haier, and it has the same problems. that is a 2010 unit. I have some hdtv to analogue translators, and on my old analogue sets there are no problems with stutter or pixelation. all the same OTA antena. NO OTHER CHANNELS SHOW THESE PROBLEMS. I have tried reducing connected items and cables to a minimum, and also have rotated the antenna (a capacitive coil type) to various orientations, and there is no difference.

the pixelation and stutter seems to occur in programming when the scene is cut to another view, and sometimes when there is fast movement. ie, either high data feed, or setting up of a new image. advetisements seem to be the worse, but they have the most scene changes.

if cbc would like to come out and see the problem at my house, they are fully and completely invited. I'll even get donuts. I cannot imagine that the advertisers that are trying to get to all the OTA eyeballs would be very happy to know that their efforts are particularily nasty to watch. (ie totally unwatchable)

westendhitch

[Kingdom]

Well I wish I was only having the problems with CBLT some of you are reporting. For me the stuttering/pixelation started almost 3 months ago, at first intermittently, but it's gotten worse, to the point where in the last month CBC is almost completely unbearable. I might receive a clean signal for about 10 seconds and then have a choppy/blocky sometimes frozen picture for a few minutes, sometimes my tv even shuts off video it is so bad and I only receive audio. Like others have stated the audio is always perfect, it's just a problem with the video.

I seem to be having the opposite problem to many of you in that commercials are usually the cleanest thing I get (thought the problem still happens, just not as frequently). It's the programming that's always worst for me. And it doesn't matter if it's a live broadcast or a pre-recorded show or what time of day/nigh.

Prior to this issue starting back in march CBLT was always the most reliable station for me, of the 15 or so signals i receive it was the only one i got 100% on all of the time. And it sucks because CBC is really the only station I really want to receive.

if it contributes to anyone trying to map this out and figure out what might be happening I'm at King and Dufferin facing south but i have a relatively clear los to the CN tower and keep my 3 year old Terk CFDTV2 facing east in my window (I've only ever had to adjust it's positioning to clean up reception on some of the US stations). I'm also on a 4 year old Samsung 42A450.

I've noticed a lot of the posters seem to be having this issue on samsung tv's (especially the 450 models) but if it's a problem with the tuner and the mpeg coding as some are hypothesising, why is it only affecting CBC?

My first thought was that maybe there was another signal interfering with CBC's frequency, but I guess if only some of us are having this issue that's not the case.

I will gladly record the issue and post it will help make a diagnosis.

[majortom]

I watched about a 1/2 hour of the Silver Jubilee celebration this AM on a
Samsung Model LN40A530P1FXZA, and saw no sign of any issues with CBLT
here in Buffalo.

I don't use this set all the time.

[buffalofan19]

I got tired of the pixellation on my Vizio TV so I ran the coax into my laptop (with a Hauppauge 750Q tuner) and then used an HDMI chord to project the signal to my TV. After finally figuring out what an ATI Catalyst Control Center was, I was finally able to get my computer to cover the entire screen of my Vizio and watch the hockey game on CBC without a single pixellation problem. Looks like that is how I will be watching the Stanley Cup Finals from now on. With the way things are going, it looks like I'll only need this work around until Wednesday anyway.

[rob50312]

I would like add that the Problems with CBLT have just developed recently and only occurs with my LG which has had no problems with CBLT signal from day 1 until recently.Therefore something has changed with the transmitter end.Perhaps its something with the guide data info.I have 3 antennae set up and switching to a different antenna makes no difference.

[westendhitch]

short update re TVO and pixelation: at least tonight (monday 4th june), the TVO feed is great. no pixelation, no stutter. CBC is, however, still unwatchable, with massive pixelation and massive stutter.

[majortom]

Gave the Samsung another whirl.
Watched the last 5 minutes of the 1st period, up until Coach's Corner on the Samsung. Looks perfect here in Buffalo, not a hint of a glitch during the game, during commercials or Coach's Corner.

The PC based tuner on the same antenna system but a different leg of a 4 way splitter, reports 25.5 dB SNR on CBC tonight.

[tgf]

Originally Posted by majortom

Gave the Samsung another whirl.
Watched the last 5 minutes of the 1st period, up until Coach's Corner on the Samsung. Looks perfect here in Buffalo, not a hint of a glitch during the game, during commercials or Coach's Corner.

@majortom, I see less frequent problems during hockey. Can you try the kids programming any weekday or Saturday between 7 and 9am. Those are mostly slide shows on my LN32A450, but fine on other tuners.

I also posted a very small sample video from the My Big Fat Greek Wedding last week in post #570 from the same TV. I'm not sure if it got missed since it was at the end of a page.

[wallywalrus22]

Just a thought regarding the CBLT-DT stuttering issue, that TVO and CBLT have adjacent rf's, namely UHF channels 19 and 20 respectively, and could be interfering with each others transmissions, especially for those in close proximity to the CN Tower.

However, when TVO started OTA transmissions last August, there were no reports of this problem, so perhaps the source of this problem lies elsewhere.

[dheian]

My CBC recording of the Jubilee concert was a stutter-filled nightmare. Rewind to the Royal Wedding last year and for 6+ hours it was rock solid. Could they have messed something up in the change from 1080 to 720?

Has anyone on here struck up an email conversation with CBC? Do they know OTA'ers in T.O. are having these issues?

[majortom]

dheian,
please see post # 577.
The issue is very recent, so is not likely directly related to the switch to 720p, which occurred in August of 2011.

[buffalofan19]

My Dynex started stuttering badly last night as well, now. Only my PC Tuner has a really solid signal.